You you ever tell your child to hit back?

racso1975

I have always told my eldest to never hit anybody primarily because it is a despicable thing and secondly he is exceptionally strong.

However there have been three incidents recently where it has been on the tip of my tongue to tell him to stand up for himself.

1) Some girl hit him on the head last week with a branch of a tree (this sounds worse then it was). Now he is 5 and she was about 8

2) At hurling another kid grabbed his helmet by the face mask and screamed at him

3) He said an older child (just by a year) in school push's him and the other kids everyday

I know my response is more emotive then logically based however when it comes to either of my sons the thoughts of them being hurt/upset usually bring an emotive response.

Now I know he is just 5 and this stuff happens to most kids but I just want him to stand up a bit for himself so that he is not targeted in school etc.

Maybe I just reading too much into these things!!! Parenting really is head wrecking :mad:

bbam

Nope.
You need to step in and let him see you deal with this in a controlled manner.
He probably needs to see that you'll step in when needed and this will help quell his need to strike out.

Hitting is never the answer.

racso1975

The only one i was present for was the hurling one and did not want to intervene in that as did not want to be charging on to the pitch like a lunatic parent.

The branch incident happened in the park and while i was with i did not witness it and he said he did not know who did it but when we talked about it at home he said exactly what happened.

bumper234

bbam wrote: »

Nope.
You need to step in and let him see you deal with this in a controlled manner.
He probably needs to see that you'll step in when needed and this will help quell his need to strike out.

Hitting is never the answer.

Have to disagree here, I know the old "violence is never the answer" take on things works 99% of the time but sometimes violence is the only answer. Yes i know we are talking about a 5 year here but even at that age they need to learn to stand up for themselves. Bullies are out there and telling a child to talk it through or get a parent to step in is not always going to work. I am not saying that you advocate striking out at every incident but i will say that there are situations where it is ok to strike back in self defense otherwise i (personally) feel that you are just teaching your child to be a future victim of bullies and intimidation.

Gambas

I think he can be told he is allowed to stand up for himself (if he is the passive sort) by pushing back and verbally retaliating in the cases 2&3 - but not to hit or kick. That said, passive kids can be reluctant to do even that and can just end up frustrated, but if they are told not to ever react they can feel helpless.

nesf

My son is six, turning seven next month. He's too young for the "sometimes you have to defend yourself" talk. When he's a bit older and showing some better judgement than he currently is capable of due to his age I'll probably give him the same chat I got from my father about when it's acceptable to hit someone (99% of the time it's self defense or coming to the aid of another). When he's older again I'll probably have him do a martial arts or boxing class, but that mainly would be to learn self-discipline and other things. First things, first though, you teach them when to run as fast as they ****ing can.

At the moment all he's learned from me are some of the basics of where to place your hands to protect your face if someone is punching you. How to cover your head and so on. There doesn't seem to be any bullying going on in his school so it's a non-issue at the moment for him.

Demosthenese

At that age things like this happen quite a bit at times. Its nothing to worry about most of the time BUT ... i would encourage my child to stand up for herself on certain occasions - i.e if another child was constantly pushing her, if what happened was no accident, if she was struck first.

- if someone pushes you by accident its no big deal.
- if someone pushes you time and time again - inform the teacher OR if you feel you are up to it push them back and tell them not to do it again.

I have 3 kids and even though it sounds amusing in my head even as i type this - i would be happier in my own mind if i knew they are all capable of defending themselves to a certain extent when it needs to be done. no matter the age. My 8 year old had a few instances in school a year ago where he needed to stand up for himself because - he felt the "teacher will give out to me if i defend myself" etc etc ... i told him that provided he didn't hit first it was acceptable to push back.

Each kid is different, older boy is quieter and needed to be reinforced that he was not to allow himself to be picked on. Younger girl had no such worries she just instinctively doesn't take sh*t from anyone.

So in my opinion ... they need to be calm and make their minds up as to if they are being accidentally hit/pushed etc or if they need to make a small stand and are capable of dealing with what happens next. I'll admit i've said to my young lad "Is he a big kid? ... then you need to decide if you want to stand there or tell the teacher/parent" ...

Sorry if my "hit back provided you have been struck" actions are not acceptable to some, i do not expect my kids to be bullies, but i'll make sure they are not on the receiving end. Of course, as i said already 95% is just kids being kids.

The problem with kids is, they are often very childish

nesf

Gambas wrote: »

I think he can be told he is allowed to stand up for himself (if he is the passive sort) by pushing back and verbally retaliating in the cases 2&3 - but not to hit or kick. That said, passive kids can be reluctant to do even that and can just end up frustrated, but if they are told not to ever react they can feel helpless.

If you're backed to a wall and someone is trying to hurt you, pushing and verbally retaliating won't help much unless you've a serious strength advantage which you normally won't. The thing is, this never happens to the vast majority of children, teenagers and adults. You teach them something about self defense taking into account the 1% situation not just focusing on the 99% of the time situations where hitting isn't remotely necessary.

highly1111

Yes I do.

There's a few reasons.

Firstly as a teacher I see all the time instances where only the weak are picked on. It's unfortunate but true. Bullies only get away with bullying those who don't retaliate.

Secondly, I could have written your post a few months ago & I've only just gotten around the fact that I cannot let my 4 year old be walked on. If something happens in Montessori he knows to tell his teacher. If something happens on a playdate (which is rare - he's only 4) he knows to tell a parent. However we were in a playarea where this kid literally stepped all over him and my son told him not to do that and to get off him. He didn't come crying or running to me - and I was proud of him. He stood up for himself.

Finally my husband was bullied for 3 years and kept the head down and told no one. (primary school) one day he lost it and he punched the kid. The kid never came near him again. Now, I'm not advocating punching (or anything like it) but it reinforces my first point.

a few years ago I would have been disgusted at the notion of telling my child to 'hit' back - however since becoming a parent and seen more and more evidence of the weaker kids being targeted in school it is a sad reflection that I've had to change my opinion.

however obviously there is an essential difference between hitting and hitting back.

The Princess Bride

What happens if he hits back and the other child falls down, whacks their head on the kerb,and ends up being hospitalised?
There's a fine line between teaching them to stand their ground and not be bullied/picked on;and becoming too physical resulting in injury.

Re: the hurling incident-I'd imagine that would not be tolerated, perhaps bring this to the attention of the coach?

nesf

highly1111 wrote: »

however obviously there is an essential difference between hitting and hitting back.

And an extremely important difference between one punch to shut someone up and getting the boot in after knocking them to the ground. If a child knows they can hit back they need to be essentially conditioned into using the minimal amount of force necessary. Otherwise they could land themselves into a lot of trouble and potentially badly hurt the other kid.

nesf

msthe80s wrote: »

What happens if he hits back and the other child falls down, whacks their head on the kerb,and ends up being hospitalised?
There's a fine line between teaching them to stand their ground and not be bullied/picked on;and becoming too physical resulting in injury.

Re: the hurling incident-I'd imagine that would not be tolerated, perhaps bring this to the attention of the coach?

Honestly a 6 year old will be more likely to create your scenario with a push than a punch, they're not strong enough to truly stagger someone with a single hit (most adults aren't either when hitting someone their own size when you get down to it) and they're very unlikely to be able to punch or especially kick properly anyway to get the maximum force behind it. Now if they lose it and start beating on the kid they could fall easily, but at that point it's gone far beyond "standing your ground."

highly1111

nesf wrote: »

And an extremely important difference between one punch to shut someone up and getting the boot in after knocking them to the ground. If a child knows they can hit back they need to be essentially conditioned into using the minimal amount of force necessary. Otherwise they could land themselves into a lot of trouble and potentially badly hurt the other kid.

absolutely. I completely agree.

There's teaching kids to stand up for themselves and then there's over-reacting and beating the crap out of someone just because they touched you first - I'm all about the former.

Sometimes it's hard to articulate ourselves properly online - I want my child be to confident and stand up for himself. I do not want him to be targeted by bullies. I do not want him to be a little thug. There is a balance.

bumper234

msthe80s wrote: »

What happens if he hits back and the other child falls down, whacks their head on the kerb,and ends up being hospitalised?
There's a fine line between teaching them to stand their ground and not be bullied/picked on;and becoming too physical resulting in injury.

Re: the hurling incident-I'd imagine that would not be tolerated, perhaps bring this to the attention of the coach?

Scenario

You are walking through town, Some scumbag starts giving you ****, It's Dublin so most people will pretend not to see anything and walk on because people are afraid to get involved. Do you stand there and take a beating? Try call the police (what with the rapid response they give even if you had the chance)? Try to walk away as punches rain down on you? Or do you hit back and defend yourself?

Now what if that person falls down hits their head on the kerb and is hospitalized? I know i am talking in an extreme case here but so are you, Most kids of that age do not punch they slap so less chance of some miraculous knockout punch happening there and as other poster said there is more chance of your hospital scenario happening with a push.

nesf

bumper234 wrote: »

Scenario

You are walking through town, Some scumbag starts giving you ****, It's Dublin so most people will pretend not to see anything and walk on because people are afraid to get involved. Do you stand there and take a beating? Try call the police (what with the rapid response they give even if you had the chance)? Try to walk away as punches rain down on you? Or do you hit back and defend yourself?

Now what if that person falls down hits their head on the kerb and is hospitalized? I know i am talking in an extreme case here but so are you, Most kids of that age do not punch they slap so less chance of some miraculous knockout punch happening there and as other poster said there is more chance of your hospital scenario happening with a push.

Actually with the scumbag you just walk, you don't know if they're carrying a knife or not. If they're the hassling you on the street type to the point of punching you the odds are high enough.

The Princess Bride

I'm remembering a specific case that happened in my local primary school.
And now,if anyone mentions the name of the child who was picked on in the first place, it's always in the same sentence as "bully","that boy who", "that scumbag".

Yet-he was merely standing up for himself after a full term of being isolated ,laughed at,intimidated and picked on repeatedly-despite-his parents continually speaking with the teacher.
And,it was the teacher who advised that he learn to stand up for himself and push back.

The OP did mention that her son is particularly strong, yes?

bumper234

nesf wrote: »

Actually with the scumbag you just walk, you don't know if they're carrying a knife or not. If they're the hassling you on the street type to the point of punching you the odds are high enough.

Yeah. See i couldn't do that. If someone attacks me i will strike back without hesitation. I understand what you are saying about the knife but i would probably have hit him before i even had time to think bout knives etc. I worked as a doorman for nigh on 20 years so have the advantage of being (A) a big ugly brute (B) No time for scumbags and (C) No problem (if circumstances merit) Hurting said scumbags to a point where they would not be able to continue an attack. Again i am in the 99% of violence is not the answer but would also advocate the 1% use and not lose a second of sleep over it.

nesf

msthe80s wrote: »

The OP did mention that her son is particularly strong, yes?

Exceptionally strong for a five year old is still pretty weak in terms of being able to stagger someone. It requires quite a considerable amount of force.

Pushing someone back on the other hand is a far more trivial way to make them fall and crack open their skull.

nesf

bumper234 wrote: »

Yeah. See i couldn't do that. If someone attacks me i will strike back without hesitation. I understand what you are saying about the knife but i would probably have hit him before i even had time to think bout knives etc. I worked as a doorman for nigh on 20 years so have the advantage of being (A) a big ugly brute (B) No time for scumbags and (C) No problem (if circumstances merit) Hurting said scumbags to a point where they would not be able to continue an attack. Again i am in the 99% of violence is not the answer but would also advocate the 1% use and not lose a second of sleep over it.

An adult with 20 years doorman experience is not the same as it happening to a kid or young teen!

bumper234

nesf wrote: »

An adult with 20 years doorman experience is not the same as it happening to a kid or young teen!

Fully agree with you, What i am trying to say is at what age do you tell a child that it's ok to hit back? I would rather have my child defend him/herself from day one. If you constantly go down the passive route i (personally) believe that in older years the person will be reluctant (afraid?) to stand up to bullies.

racso1975

msthe80s wrote: »

What happens if he hits back and the other child falls down, whacks their head on the kerb,and ends up being hospitalised?
There's a fine line between teaching them to stand their ground and not be bullied/picked on;and becoming too physical resulting in injury.

Re: the hurling incident-I'd imagine that would not be tolerated, perhaps bring this to the attention of the coach?

And what if he does nothing he ends up being the one hospitalised?

He is a very passive child unless you upset his brother. He is like a pitbull around him. I have seen him verbally berate children for upsetting him. Obviously a nice trait but would like to see him stand up for himself as i said.

The big prob here will be the mixed message as i know he will immediately say but you told me to never touch somebody

LittleBook

racso1975 wrote: »

He is a very passive child unless you upset his brother. He is like a pitbull around him. I have seen him verbally berate children for upsetting him. Obviously a nice trait but would like to see him stand up for himself as i said.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there ... I always told my daughter not to hit back but to yell at the top of her voice "Don't hit me!" ... done properly it scares the bejesus out of the kid who hits and (for the most part) gets the attention of an adult. The best part though is the "victim" is taking back control of the situation which is invaluable for their self esteem.

ibstar

@nesf don't wait until he's older. I think age 6 is great time to start Martial Arts. You will see in future that self discipline and self confidence will transfer to things like learning in school and work.

nesf

ibstar wrote: »

@nesf don't wait until he's older. I think age 6 is great time to start Martial Arts. You will see in future that self discipline and self confidence will transfer to things like learning in school and work.

There's a Kendo class that runs 5 minutes walk from us. They take them from 7 years onwards, I've had my eye on that.

ibstar

nesf wrote: »

There's a Kendo class that runs 5 minutes walk from us. They take them from 7 years onwards, I've had my eye on that.

Don't know where you live, but if you're in Blanchardstown, there's a Karate club I used to go to that was accepting from age 5 I think. Kendo imo is something to take up as a side project from your main MA. In a real life situation a person who has been practicing using a weapon like a stick/sword/knife becomes a little dazzled and lost for actions without his/her weapon at hand, and moves become stubborn. This might be going a bit too deep, but I would defiantly recommend fighting sports that don't involve weapons as an entry into martial arts world.

Good luck.

nesf

ibstar wrote: »

Don't know where you live, but if you're in Blanchardstown, there's a Karate club I used to go to that was accepting from age 5 I think. Kendo imo is something to take up as a side project from your main MA. In a real life situation a person who has been practicing using a weapon like a stick/sword/knife becomes a little dazzled and lost for actions without his/her weapon at hand, and moves become stubborn. This might be going a bit too deep, but I would defiantly recommend fighting sports that don't involve weapons as an entry into martial arts world.

Good luck.

I'm not in Dublin.

I'd agree if the purpose was to teach him to fight, but that's not my aim.

bumper234

nesf wrote: »

I'm not in Dublin.

I'd agree if the purpose was to teach him to fight, but that's not my aim.

Your aim is to teach him self defense but the first thing you will have to understand is that to defend yourself he will need to know how to fight. This is the ugly truth of the world and better he learns from an early age. I know it looks brutal but the MMA (mixed martial arts) clubs are great to learn in.

nesf

bumper234 wrote: »

Your aim is to teach him self defense but the first thing you will have to understand is that to defend yourself he will need to know how to fight. This is the ugly truth of the world and better he learns from an early age. I know it looks brutal but the MMA (mixed martial arts) clubs are great to learn in.

No, my aim is more along the lines of learning how to respect something, improve his self-discipline and work hard at things that don't come easily.


I agree, learning self defense techniques without learning how to fight is a terrible waste of one's time. Actually it may be worse than doing nothing at all. If I wanted him to learn how to fight, yeah MMA would come ahead of most other martial arts for me.

anncoates

One of the hardest things to call as a parent.

On the balance I would not explicitly tell my boys to hit back.

Nobody wants to see their child kowtow to bullies but if you just say give them a belt you are putting them in a situation where they think violence is always the answer: also if they are naturally pacifist, you're setting some kind of macho ideal that they have to live up to. Also there is the issue of them actually hurting somebody.

That said, the sad thing about life is that when you turn the other cheek to bullies, even as a child, they just continue to walk all over you so I'm not sure I'd exactly punish them if they whacked one back either.