Looking for a second opinion. Who do you think was in the wrong?

Connavar

Hey guys,

Just looking for some opinions on an accident, as while the guard told me that I did nothing wrong, a second opinion would be nice. Its currently with the insurance company and is being disputed by both sides. (by the way, I wouldn't have moved out if i thought traffic was going to stop in front of me, and this is the part that makes me question if I was ok)

AltAccount

So you got caught on a junction and then drove off without looking right?
Would the other car have hit you if you didn't move?

Connavar

AltAccount wrote: »

So you got caught on a junction and then drove off without looking right?
Would the other car have hit you if you didn't move?

Yes, I thought I had right of way as the markings suggested that I was on the major road, and I wasn't caught on a yellow box.
It wouldn't have hit without me moving

AltAccount

And you were beyond your traffic lights and therefore couldn't see if they were red before you drive off?
Were they red, do you know?

Tombo2001

Connavar wrote: »

Hey guys,

Just looking for some opinions on an accident, as while the guard told me that I did nothing wrong, a second opinion would be nice. Its currently with the insurance company and is being disputed by both sides. (by the way, I wouldn't have moved out if i thought traffic was going to stop in front of me, and this is the part that makes me question if I was ok)

But you didnt stop in a grid - as such you were entitled to drive out even if you knew traffic was stopped in front of you? Thats how I would read it.

I would be asking, how the f88K did the other car drive into you if they could the traffic stopped there in front of them. i'd see it as completely their fault.

Tombo2001

AltAccount wrote: »

And you were beyond your traffic lights and therefore couldn't see if they were red before you drive off?
Were they red, do you know?

Why does it matter if they were green when he/ she went through?

ba_barabus

OP were you stopped in the road blocking it or did you pull into it to try make it across and end up cutting the car off that hit you?

In other words, did the car ram you or did you cut them off?

Connavar

AltAccount wrote: »

And you were beyond your traffic lights and therefore couldn't see if they were red before you drive off?
Were they red, do you know?

I'm not sure to be honest with you. No way for me to tell since they were behind me

AltAccount

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Why does it matter if they were green when he/ she went through?

I'm reading it as:
OP drove beyond green lights but couldn't fully cross junction
OP's light went red and other cars got the green
Traffic in front of OP cleared and they drove off without checking if cars from right were oncoming

Connavar

ba_barabus wrote: »

OP were you stopped in the road blocking it or did you pull into it to try make it across and end up cutting the car off that hit you?

In other words, did the car ram you or did you cut them off?

I was stopped and the first two lanes were stopped by me. Then the traffic in front of me moved so I followed. There was probably a few seconds before I started moving, so there was a gap there until I moved

Connavar

AltAccount wrote: »

I'm reading it as:
OP drove beyond green lights but couldn't fully cross junction
OP's light went red and other cars got the green
Traffic in front of OP cleared and they drove off without checking if cars from right were oncoming

This is why I am unsure on the situation. The only thing that makes me think I was in the right here is the road markings indicating I was on a major road

ba_barabus

Connavar wrote: »

I was stopped and the first two lanes were stopped by me. Then the traffic in front of me moved so I followed. There was probably a few seconds before I started moving, so there was a gap there until I moved

So you crossed lanes into oncoming traffic?

Not having a go but it would suggest to me that you pulled out in front of the other car. I'd also imagine the other person should have anticipated something happening if the gap was small.

I'd say it could end up 50/50 when the insurance companies investigate.

ba_barabus

Connavar wrote: »

This is why I am unsure on the situation. The only thing that makes me think I was in the right here is the road markings indicating I was on a major road

The other traffic had the right of way at the time and by your own admission there was a gap and you drive into it in front of oncoming traffic.

AltAccount

IMHO the other driver was a fool for ploughing through and trying to leave you trapped on the junction, but I think you bear the brunt of the responsibility here.

You got trapped on a junction due to poor planning
You technically broke a red light
You moved without checking if the way was, and would remain, clear
You didn't yield to traffic on your right on something that is essentially a roundabout

Poor observation and anticipation caused this crash, mostly yours.

Tombo2001

AltAccount wrote: »

IMHO the other driver was a fool for ploughing through and trying to leave you trapped on the junction, but I think you bear the brunt of the responsibility here.

You got trapped on a junction due to poor planning
You technically broke a red light
You moved without checking if the way was, and would remain, clear
You didn't yield to traffic on your right on something that is essentially a roundabout

Poor observation and anticipation caused this crash, mostly yours.

OP either broke a red light or didnt break a red light. There is no technical aspect to this. You drive through a green light, that is not breaking a red light. if the light behind you goes red, why does it matter. It was green when OP went through.

OP was already on the roundabout when the other cars started driving. As such OP did not need to yield.

Its not OP's fault there was no grid there. Thats bad planning.

Its not OPs fault that the oncoming traffic drove into him. They had plenty of time to see him.

The one issue I would say though, OP.....

How long was the gap between the car in front of you moving and you moving?

Overall, though, i dont think OP has an issue here.

Connavar

Tombo2001 wrote: »

OP either broke a red light or didnt break a red light. There is no technical aspect to this. You drive through a green light, that is not breaking a red light. if the light behind you goes red, why does it matter. It was green when OP went through.

OP was already on the roundabout when the other cars started driving. As such OP did not need to yield.

Its not OP's fault there was no grid there. Thats bad planning.

Its not OPs fault that the oncoming traffic drove into him. They had plenty of time to see him.

The one issue I would say though, OP.....

How long was the gap between the car in front of you moving and you moving?

Overall, though, i dont think OP has an issue here.

I'm not sure how long it was(though, I really don't think it was long). Things went to a bit of a blur after the crash

ironclaw

Your not supposed to cross a junction unless you can clear it (Whether there is a yellow box or not). That's basic driver planning and perception. Granted we all get caught out but still, there were 3 major lanes to your right which you had a duty of care to not block.

My guess is the driver in the third lane never saw you as you were obscured by the 2 lanes of traffic you were blocking. OP had to yield to him as he's coming from the right at what is a junction.

I'd say its distributed blame but the driver in lane 3 I can't put too much blame on, the OP wasn't suppose to be there.

AltAccount

Tombo2001 wrote: »

OP either broke a red light or didnt break a red light. There is no technical aspect to this. You drive through a green light, that is not breaking a red light. if the light behind you goes red, why does it matter. It was green when OP went through.

OP was already on the roundabout when the other cars started driving. As such OP did not need to yield.

Its not OP's fault there was no grid there. Thats bad planning.

You drive past a green light but stop before entering the junction, you wait until the light goes red, you then drive into the junction - that's ok based on your interpretation of "breaking a red light"?

OP was not moving, the other traffic was, but the OP has automatic right of way because they got there first?

Not stopping on a junction is common sense, you can't blame the fact there was no yellow box.


All IMHO, of course...

djimi

Tombo2001 wrote: »

OP either broke a red light or didnt break a red light. There is no technical aspect to this. You drive through a green light, that is not breaking a red light. if the light behind you goes red, why does it matter. It was green when OP went through.

You dont pass through any light, green, red or otherwise, unless the road on the far side of the junction is clear and safe to move across into. If you are unsure that the road will be clear then you stop at the light and wait to find out.

Thats a fairly major junction there OP, and Im not sure I agree with your thinking that you were on the main road. Am I right in saying that you were waiting at the first set of lights to turn right onto the Long Mile Road, and that the car that hit you was crossing onto the Kileen Road? To me the car heading towards the Kileen Rd would be on the more major road.

Connavar

djimi wrote: »

You dont pass through any light, green, red or otherwise, unless the road on the far side of the junction is clear and safe to move across into. If you are unsure that the road will be clear then you stop at the light and wait to find out.

Thats a fairly major junction there OP, and Im not sure I agree with your thinking that you were on the main road. Am I right in saying that you were waiting at the first set of lights to turn right onto the Long Mile Road, and that the car that hit you was crossing onto the Kileen Road? To me the car heading towards the Kileen Rd would be on the more major road.

Yeah, I was waiting for the right turn(traffic got stuck from the lights up ahead). I am taking it as the major road due to the markings that are on it

djimi

Connavar wrote: »

Yeah, I was waiting for the right turn(traffic got stuck from the lights up ahead). I am taking it as the major road due to the markings that are on it

Having looked at the junction again on Google maps the road markings dont really suggest (to me anyway) that either road is the more important, but considering the road you were on is a two lane road and the other is three I think that makes a difference (I could be wrong about that though).

Connavar

djimi wrote: »

Having looked at the junction again on Google maps the road markings dont really suggest (to me anyway) that either road is the more important, but considering the road you were on is a two lane road and the other is three I think that makes a difference (I could be wrong about that though).

I was always under the impression that if one roads lines continue, its the major road(I stand to be corrected on this one, cant find it on the rotr site)

AltAccount

My understanding of that junction is that the Naas Rd is the major road and the Longmile Rd is the minor.

You were effectively in an auxiliary lane that allows you to turn right across the junction (if you don't consider it a roundabout)

Either way I'd consider the other driver either to be on the more major road or to your right on a roundabout, in both cases having right of way.

ironclaw

AltAccount wrote: »

Either way I'd consider the other driver either to be on the more major road or to your right on a roundabout, in both cases having right of way.

I agree with that. You also cannot block a junction no matter how important either road is.