Collecting and purifying water.

silentrust

Ok so I live in spitting distance of a canal, the sea and have two large rain butts (I like big butts and I cannot lie. . )

Having said this, none of this is suitable for drinking so I was wondering how people plan to collect and purify their water post collapse?

The only methods I have used are filtering through a clean cotton shirt then adding a few drops of iodine.

Boiling seems to be an easy way too though can be fuel intensive.

Apparently water left in clear containers in the Sun will gradually sterilize due to UV radiation but I don't imagine this would do us much good here in Ireland.

What do we think?

ShadowFox

silentrust wrote: »

Ok so I live in spitting distance of a canal, the sea and have two large rain butts (I like big butts and I cannot lie. . )

Having said this, none of this is suitable for drinking so I was wondering how people plan to collect and purify their water post collapse?

The only methods I have used are filtering through a clean cotton shirt then adding a few drops of iodine.

Boiling seems to be an easy way too though can be fuel intensive.

Apparently water left in clear containers in the Sun will gradually sterilize due to UV radiation but I don't imagine this would do us much good here in Ireland.

What do we think?

Ive 2 1000lt water butts one is connected to the down stairs toilet the other i use for plants and washing the path after the dogs. Ive a stream near by that I plan to use if needed also. To make the water butts / stream water suitable for drinking Ill start with a cotton t shirt then water purification tablet (1 per liter) or a water filter but my number one choice would be to boil it if i had the fuel

silentrust

ShadowFox wrote: »

Ive 2 1000lt water butts one is connected to the down stairs toilet the other i use for plants and washing the path after the dogs. Ive a stream near by that I plan to use if needed also. To make the water butts / stream water suitable for drinking Ill start with a cotton t shirt then water purification tablet (1 per liter) or a water filter but my number one choice would be to boil it if i had the fuel

Thanks Shadowfox, I assume then you have a grey water filter connected to the sink and/or shower in your downstairs bathroom for the dogs?

I am very intrigued by the idea of your stream, I assume in an emergency you could rig up a pump for all your needs? Very jealous!

I have been reading that coffee filters as well as coffin balls make for excellent makeshift filters, perhaps we should be stocking up?

ShadowFox

silentrust wrote: »

Thanks Shadowfox, I assume then you have a grey water filter connected to the sink and/or shower in your downstairs bathroom for the dogs?

I am very intrigued by the idea of your stream, I assume in an emergency you could rig up a pump for all your needs? Very jealous!

I have been reading that coffee filters as well as coffin balls make for excellent makeshift filters, perhaps we should be stocking up?

I use normal water for the dogs they will get+ the filtered water same as the humans if it comes down to it
The stream in in the local park ive a heavy duty hand pump shopping trolley and 100 lt bucket or the cleanest wheelie bin I can "borrow"
Coffee filters are good dont know about cotton balls
The reason the stream was used in the past was only for flushing the toilet back in 2010 as people were fighting over the water takers I couldnt be bothered with that

silentrust

ShadowFox wrote: »

I use normal water for the dogs they will get+ the filtered water same as the humans if it comes down to it
The stream in in the local park ive a heavy duty hand pump shopping trolley and 100 lt bucket or the cleanest wheelie bin I can "borrow"
Coffee filters are good dont know about cotton balls
The reason the stream was used in the past was only for flushing the toilet back in 2010 as people were fighting over the water takers I couldnt be bothered with that

Forgive my stupidity but were people actually objecting to people taking water from the stream? Did they say why?

ShadowFox

silentrust wrote: »

Forgive my stupidity but were people actually objecting to people taking water from the stream? Did they say why?

No they were fighting over the water from the water takers so rather than deal with that I bought my hand pump and got my water from the stream It wasnt that bad of an emergency that id fight for water

eirator

silentrust wrote: »

Ok so I live in spitting distance of a canal, the sea and have two large rain butts (I like big butts and I cannot lie. . )

Having said this, none of this is suitable for drinking so I was wondering how people plan to collect and purify their water post collapse?

The only methods I have used are filtering through a clean cotton shirt then adding a few drops of iodine.

Boiling seems to be an easy way too though can be fuel intensive.

Apparently water left in clear containers in the Sun will gradually sterilize due to UV radiation but I don't imagine this would do us much good here in Ireland.

What do we think?

I won't be drinking any river or stream water I know what sh!t ends up our river and in a SHTF situation I expect more will get dumped into it.

I'd be happy enough using the water butt water to drink, I wouldn't filter it as such but I would carefully siphon off water (home brew style) so as not to disturb any of the crap thats on the bottom or any floating rubbish.

I'm also in the process of improving our rain water collection. Throughout the year we get enough falling on a roof for a families use (a light shower collects 50l of water and a days rain fills my current 400l capacity to overflowing) the problem is collecting enough for the periods it doesn't rain and we have gone for 2 weeks or more here before with no rain at all. The improvement plan is to have a group of tanks connected together so the first collects the water and settles out the main crap the second stores it with little water movement so more settlement occurs and the 3rd is where the main water is taken from.

I can obviously use the stream water for toilet flushing but it would be easier to just use rain water if that is possible.

One nice little trick I've just discovered is that if you are joining up a group of the 220l blue farm disinfectant tanks you don't have to take the tops off them because you can easily add tank connectors by drilling as required then locating the tank connectors in position on a stick through the filling holes. This now means I can have one lidded drum (home made wooden lid) and don't need to have lids on any of the connected drums. I'm using 1inch brass tank connectors (would prefer something bigger) which are about a fiver each with a bit of scrap 1inch copper pipe (about 3inches) and 1inch hose type pipe with jubilee clips to join up the drums.

I've a hand pump and I've just realized because the water butts are near the overflow for the header tank for our direct hot water system (direct = water heated in cooker back boiler is same water as comes out of tap, system needs no electric pump) I can use that as a route to pump water to keep us in hot water.

So change of plan today - pump maintenance and a check through plumbing supplies to see if I need anything to connect it up.

Still have a few packs of water sterilizing tablets and would boil any drinking water but then we do have a wood burning cooker to do that on.

For those in towns and not on their own septic tank I wouldn't totally rely on main drainage because in a SHFT situation you never know what some fools will try and flush away so main drains might become blocked.

ShadowFox

eirator wrote: »

I won't be drinking any river or stream water I know what sh!t ends up our river and in a SHTF situation I expect more will get dumped into it.

I'd be happy enough using the water butt water to drink, I wouldn't filter it as such but I would carefully siphon off water (home brew style) so as not to disturb any of the crap thats on the bottom or any floating rubbish.

I'm also in the process of improving our rain water collection. Throughout the year we get enough falling on a roof for a families use (a light shower collects 50l of water and a days rain fills my current 400l capacity to overflowing) the problem is collecting enough for the periods it doesn't rain and we have gone for 2 weeks or more here before with no rain at all. The improvement plan is to have a group of tanks connected together so the first collects the water and settles out the main crap the second stores it with little water movement so more settlement occurs and the 3rd is where the main water is taken from.

I can obviously use the stream water for toilet flushing but it would be easier to just use rain water if that is possible.

One nice little trick I've just discovered is that if you are joining up a group of the 220l blue farm disinfectant tanks you don't have to take the tops off them because you can easily add tank connectors by drilling as required then locating the tank connectors in position on a stick through the filling holes. This now means I can have one lidded drum (home made wooden lid) and don't need to have lids on any of the connected drums. I'm using 1inch brass tank connectors (would prefer something bigger) which are about a fiver each with a bit of scrap 1inch copper pipe (about 3inches) and 1inch hose type pipe with jubilee clips to join up the drums.

I've a hand pump and I've just realized because the water butts are near the overflow for the header tank for our direct hot water system (direct = water heated in cooker back boiler is same water as comes out of tap, system needs no electric pump) I can use that as a route to pump water to keep us in hot water.

So change of plan today - pump maintenance and a check through plumbing supplies to see if I need anything to connect it up.

Still have a few packs of water sterilizing tablets and would boil any drinking water but then we do have a wood burning cooker to do that on.

For those in towns and not on their own septic tank I wouldn't totally rely on main drainage because in a SHFT situation you never know what some fools will try and flush away so main drains might become blocked.

Id be the same in stream water would be for flushing the toilet unless i got really desperate and the water butts are for drinking cooking washing i hope to get another 1000lt tank this year (if i find room for it)

silentrust

ShadowFox wrote: »

No they were fighting over the water from the water takers so rather than deal with that I bought my hand pump and got my water from the stream It wasnt that bad of an emergency that id fight for water

Well hopefully our preparations will mean we're not going to be scrambling around in the dust over the last can of tuna!

I've toyed with the idea of a solar pump for the butt but it seems they're none too powerful.

eirator

silentrust wrote: »

Well hopefully our preparations will mean we're not going to be scrambling around in the dust over the last can of tuna!

I've toyed with the idea of a solar pump for the butt but it seems they're none too powerful.

No use to anyone that's not by moving water but for some like me a ram pump would be ideal google ram pump With the right setup while the volumes of water moved can be quite low the head can be very high and working 24x7 even a trickle of water can fill a large tank.

Its something I'd love to make but tbh I don't want the river water for anything and I'd spend far too much on the project.

Khannie

One trick that I've learned from home brewing is that small amounts of unscented thin bleach (currently around 65c for 1.5L) added to water + vinegar (37c for 500ml bottle in lidl) releases chlorine gas which is a potent bug killer. Very important not to mix the bleach and vinegar directly as the gas released is potentially lethal. I'm pretty sure this method would be useful as a water sterilising solution in a pinch. (sure enough that I would personally drink it no bother).

For sanitising things, the formula is 30ml bleach + 20L water + 30ml vinegar, so you would need to reduce that considerably. By how much I'm not sure, but I suppose you could alter it depending on the quality of the water.

I've also heard about the PET bottles + sunshine. I think that works well even in Irish conditions. PET's not great for medium term storage of water, but would be perfect if you just want to kill some bugs before drinking. 2 days is the number I have in my head for Irish conditions.

Danpad

Vinegar is a great all round sanitary solution. We've been using it for ages, diluted with water, to spray on the bit of the yard where the dogs do their business. Hose the area down and then spray on the solution and leave it overnight. Clean as a whistle.

sheesh

considering we are talking about shtf situations I'm wondering if some sort of pressure cooker would be the best way to putify water for drinking long term as you will evenutally run out of chlorine/iodine.

speasking of which I was told that you cannot use iodine long term as it will eventually feck up your thyroid gland anyone else hear that?

eirator

sheesh wrote: »

considering we are talking about shtf situations I'm wondering if some sort of pressure cooker would be the best way to putify water for drinking long term as you will evenutally run out of chlorine/iodine.

speasking of which I was told that you cannot use iodine long term as it will eventually feck up your thyroid gland anyone else hear that?

Boiling is all you need so stock up on tea

Agree on the iodine, its also in seaweed and some species are very rich in it and shouldn't be eaten too often.

Googling iodine how much is too much gives plenty of results indicating that 400 micrograms a day is too much but how the hell you work out how much you are getting if you use iodine for sterilizing water I don't know. I do know it make the water taste disgusting and commercial iodine water purification tablets often come with ascorbic acid tablets to neutralize the foul taste.

Some iodine based tablets used for water purification should not be used for longer than 6 weeks source I suspect the same is true of other brands and DIY dosing.

Khannie

All true. I'd say the thin bleach is worth having a fair bit of though. You could use it in so many ways, it would keep for ages and be highly tradeable. Handy enough to make your own vinegar too, to increase its potency.

silentrust

Danpad wrote: »

Vinegar is a great all round sanitary solution. We've been using it for ages, diluted with water, to spray on the bit of the yard where the dogs do their business. Hose the area down and then spray on the solution and leave it overnight. Clean as a whistle.

Amen to that bro! I can't get enough of it - one of the many reasons I want to try and brew beer is to knock up some home made vinegar. I hear good things about its use as an antiseptic too but imagine alcohol would be more effective.

Misty Moon

Khannie wrote: »

All true. I'd say the thin bleach is worth having a fair bit of though. You could use it in so many ways, it would keep for ages and be highly tradeable.

It keeps for a fair while but not that long really. I think about two years or so? There's usually a best before date on it and it loses potency over time so getting closer to that date you might need a bit more to get the same effect.

Does anyone have any Millbank bags? I looked in to getting a couple a few years ago but never did, can't remember why now. Do still plan to get a couple though, very useful things.

silentrust

Misty Moon wrote: »

It keeps for a fair while but not that long really. I think about two years or so? There's usually a best before date on it and it loses potency over time so getting closer to that date you might need a bit more to get the same effect.

Does anyone have any Millbank bags? I looked in to getting a couple a few years ago but never did, can't remember why now. Do still plan to get a couple though, very useful things.

I have heard of them but never used them. If I eBay a couple at the end of the month, perhaps I could post the results on here?

Bist du Deutsch? Geil! :-)

Misty Moon

silentrust wrote: »

Bist du Deutsch? Geil! :-)

Sorry to disappoint, Dubliner living in Krautland here. But at least I have shops like Manufactum nearby where I can go and drool over things like the vinegar crocks (while thinking of ways to get my hands on containers that would do the same but cost a lot less!)

KrustyBurger

I've seen these being used on TED, expensive but they'll definitely purify water. Not sure how long the filter lasts. The video is worth a look though (esp from 3.40m)

http://www.lifesaversystems.com

ShadowFox

Ive gone cross eyed looking at bottles of bleach in my local supermarkets looking for non scented bleach and as yet cannot find one does anyone know a brand name that i can get

silentrust

ShadowFox wrote: »

Ive gone cross eyed looking at bottles of bleach in my local supermarkets looking for non scented bleach and as yet cannot find one does anyone know a brand name that i can get

Centra sells unscented thin bleach, I imagine you'd have to put a bit more in considering it's not as potent but better that than risk drinking one of the nasties you find in regular water!

Khannie

ShadowFox wrote: »

Ive gone cross eyed looking at bottles of bleach in my local supermarkets looking for non scented bleach and as yet cannot find one does anyone know a brand name that i can get

This is the one that I use for my home brewing. I thought it was only 1.5L, but it's actually 2 litres. 69c a bottle from SuperValu.

CamperMan

We collect rain water and this is stored in 2 x 1000 litre IBC tanks, we also have a well with a hand pump, all water is purified with Black Berkey™ Purification Elements, we have used these for the past 5 years

Doc Ruby

eirator wrote: »

Boiling is all you need so stock up on tea

No, no it's not. Boiling won't get rid of chemical pollutants otherwise you could just boil sea water and have at it. Also it won't deal with things like cryptosporidium. Some bugs are tough!

To filter out most bugs you can use a drop of bleach and to filter out most others you can boil twice. To catch the chemical poisons you need to put the water through activated charcoal. On top of all of that the water should be stored in direct sunlight in a glass bottle for several hours. Then you're probably safe.

Myself I use an activated charcoal filter and boiling for my filtration system, hasn't seen me wrong yet, but I don't take water downstream from agricultural land or inhabited areas and usually only running water.