No sex life in marriage

LegacyUser

Background info, wife and i met at college, got along well, both happy to be in a relationship,same group of friends etc. Sex life was very poor which she always blamed on being a strong catholic and the guilt of sex before marriage. Broke up for a short while and got back together when she promised change. Things changed for a few weeks and then it became the same old again but with much more emphasis on the unmarried part. At the time other aspects of my life were not going as planned and she was a reasonable support. After a lot of talking and not too long after getting back together we decided to get married, at the time thinking it would fix the problems. Literally the second we were married sex became no foreplay and missionary only about once a month. Then it dwindled lower and lower. Attempts to discuss this were met by tantrums and screaming and crying. Asking to go to a professional to discuss everything with were met by same.

Fast forward a few years nothing has changed despite a few times managing to break past the tantrum and reciving promises of change. Its gotten so bad now that we havent had sex in 8 months, before that it was about every 4-6 months. The attempts to discuss it have escalated from tantrums to accusations of being a sex addict and a pervert and making her feel threatened in her own home and telling me to get professional help to fix myself.

So basically looking for advice. We are both high earners, fairly equal with a big enough but managable mortgage. Her job is secure permanent public sector, i work for myself. I do not feel the situation is reconcilable. A friend suggested an annulment but i don't know much about this.

LegacyUser

I posted here a good few years ago about similar issues.
Sex was mostly correlated to trying for children and there were very lengthy fallow periods in between times.
I mention that because you might find that things might pick up when and if your wife wants to have children and everything may revert back to your current situation once that need is satisfied.

We have 2 lovely children and loving my wife is a struggle because of my general sense that intimacy is witheld way too much in the marriage.
I also tried to bring it up over the years but I've given up now as I realise it just leads to conflict and defensiveness and turning the accusations back on to me, etc.
We are now in our mid forties and advancing beyond that.
I try to keep it out of my mind and just try to keep the status quo.
Whether this is a mistake I truly do not know.

It can be hard to keep up the guise of being civil and courteous and amiable to my wife because at the back of my mind I possibly feel I've been hard done by.
I find it hard to give advice other than to say I suspect that your current situation will probably be the main modus operandi as the years roll forward.

Esoteric_

Op, there's very little I can say other than to tell you to leave.

You've tried to discuss it, with her acting like a two year old who was denied sweets as a result. You've suggested therapy, you've done everything you can to salvage the situation. I find it frankly sickening that she's calling you a pervert and telling you to get help. You are far from a pervert! Adult relationships include sex. ffs, it's the main difference between friendship and a relationship.

I understand that she has issues with sex due to her religious upbringing, but she's not willing to seek help and has resorted to trying to pass the blame onto you, which is disgusting.

Leave before this woman destroys your confidence and happiness.

ElleEm

OP, does your wife know how seriously you are affected by this?
Does she understand that your lack of intimacy is ending your marriage?
I wonder does she think you are just a pest, and that is isn't as big of a deal as you think.
You need to sit her down and calmly talk to her about how this is making you feel. If she cannot do that, then maybe write your feelings down in a letter/ email. Maybe if she knew how serious it was, then she would be willing to address the issues. If not, then you should start seeking legal advice regarding the questions you asked about ending your marriage.

I really empathise with the second poster too, I can imagine once you have kids, it is harder to end a relationship for what some people think is a trivial issue.

The fact is, sex is a big part of any relationship. It connects the two people. The other issue here is that your wife is unwilling to communicate with you on a compromise or how you can address this issue. There is a real lack of consideration here for YOU.

LegacyUser

In my case I have reverted to just avoiding intimacy for the most part.
After a while the rejection is hard to take and it kind of hardens the soul, to be honest.
On a day to day basis we are probably coping in a pretty civilised way.
The undercurrent is that there is a taboo over opening up any discussion on intimacy,etc as it is just a red flag for her and I've learned that through the years.
I don't think this is as rare as some might think - I could be wrong, of course.

Looking back over the years and even now I think my wife does have affection for me but I think that intimacy is something she has some need to be 100% in control of.
I cannot be sure if it is a religious/conservative upbringinging thing or something more fundamental about parental control in her childhood years.
I don't really want to over-analyse it.
I just have to live and cope with it.
Despite being blessed with 2 lovely kids I do occasionally mull over how things might have been - but maybe we all do eventually.

Very recently at a family occasion a woman in early 40s did make a subtle pass at me.
It definitely wasn't the occasion to act on the pass, etc but I will admit I was tempted and that is yet another wakeup call that despite outward looks the marriage is still on rocky patches.

LegacyUser

Thanks for feedback everyone.as i said the only reason she talked me into getting married was to fix the sex life as she felt it was the only solution due to catholic guilt.the second we got married it became a million times worse.she point blank refused to ever touch me or give me oral again.its just kissing plus missionary. i dont feel she had any intention to ever work on our sex life and only used that as bait to get what she wanted ie marriage. therefore i absolutely do not believe there was any catholic guilt in the first place.

I want kids,i always have. before marriage she insisted she did to and wanted to be a family woman,then her career took off and she kept putting off trying. When we did knuckle down to trying for kids sex happened once every two weeks with her claiming there must be something biologically wrong. Her career took off&i became little more than an accessory to her work. We are in our forties and i have to concede now there is no hope of us ever having kids,another thing i feel she lied to me about.

Even though we are both high earners and roughly make the same amount (she probably earns a bit more as its my own company therefore i pay rent and costs associated etc) but i pay for 95% of our bills,every night out,random extra charges turn up on my account etc.

I know if i leave i will lose the home i am paying for.she talks a lot about screwing men into the ground when they leave there wives whenever it comes up.a few people we are close to have split up and she is very aggressive in her thinking the men should always stay and if they dont the woman should financially ruin them as much as possible.i know that as im in my 40s now if i am ever going to have kids (which i greatly desire) then i need to move on from this trainwreck that never should have happened. but i know she will do all she can to take everything ive got leaving me and my business in a very poor position.

i dont know anything about annulments,does it free me from paying maintenance? would i need to get her to admit her dishonesty in our relationship or lack of commitment?i have spelled it out over the last 2 years that if no change i was leaving,things change for a few days and then revert back to her feeling unsafe in her home from such a pervert.

OP, at this stage I think you need legal advice. You know you need to leave after her lying and intent to financially run you into the ground, now you know you need to protect your business. Get a solicitor

LegacyUser

OP -

I know myself from this kind of situation that a lot of emotions bubble to the surface when this core issue arises.
I sense there is a hint of emotional blackmail from her side in terms of her tacitly setting down the battle lines for what might ensue if you flee the nest.
It is hard to know whether the financial inequities regarding her draw on expenses, etc are a minor irritation just amplified by the core issues - which is a lack of respect for you as a life partner, etc.

One piece of advice I have regarding feedback from forums is to take things calm and collectedly. Take care not to use anything or phrases that indict her from forum opinions as they may incite her more.
Try to remain as objective as you can.

With regards to more graphic stuff, eg : lack of oral sex, for example.
Personally, it never was there from the start and I struggled with it for quite a while but I managed to put that aside.
I read widely to conclude that some women just don't entertain the idea of it.
In your case you suggest that it was part of the sex life before marriage at least for a small while.
That rings a bell in that even simple things like hand stimulation was once part of our intimacy but disappeared very very early into marriage.
To me it reeked at the time of a sort of apathy once marriage was settled into.
i.e : reel the man in and then just do the minimum to keep him on board and quickly establish who is boss.

Again take care to draw conclusions but in my case I have sadly concluded that it is a contro l thing.
Being more free with intimacy with a partner involves giving up a certain amount of control.
I discovered other parts of our relationship where my wife has been trying to get the upper hand of control and it takes huge patience to try to maintain some sense of status quo.

Neyite

nosexlife wrote: »

Even though we are both high earners and roughly make the same amount (she probably earns a bit more as its my own company therefore i pay rent and costs associated etc) but i pay for 95% of our bills,every night out,random extra charges turn up on my account etc.

I know if i leave i will lose the home i am paying for.she talks a lot about screwing men into the ground when they leave there wives whenever it comes up.a few people we are close to have split up and she is very aggressive in her thinking the men should always stay and if they dont the woman should financially ruin them as much as possible.i know that as im in my 40s now if i am ever going to have kids (which i greatly desire) then i need to move on from this trainwreck that never should have happened. but i know she will do all she can to take everything ive got leaving me and my business in a very poor position.

i dont know anything about annulments,does it free me from paying maintenance? would i need to get her to admit her dishonesty in our relationship or lack of commitment?i have spelled it out over the last 2 years that if no change i was leaving,things change for a few days and then revert back to her feeling unsafe in her home from such a pervert.

OP, maintenance only applies when you have children, and you dont currently so that does not apply. What you are thinking of is spousal support, which would only come about if she was a stay at home parent with no income of her own.

I would suggest quietly gathering proof of her income where you can, and proof of what you pay for in the household, and proof of what she pays for. When you have this information, get a good solicitor and instigate separation. But plan it all in advance so that she cant make allegations against you, or move joint funds to her accounts or whatever. She can threaten to screw you all she likes, but if she has more disposable income (and you can prove it) , she might actually be forced to pay you support. But that is unlikely. The most probable scenario is that you will split your assets fairly and move on.

Consult a professional. You are in your forties. there is nothing to stop you from having children, as many as you want, if you meet the right woman.

LegacyUser

Read this for info on grounds for annulment:

http://www.brophysolicitors.ie/brophysolicitors/main/Family_Law_Annullment.htm

I really feel for you, OP. Tread slowly, but I think you need to move on.

daisybelle2008

OP, I guess you have to make a decision about what is more important to you, either financial loss or being true to yourself. You say you met your wife in college and are in your forties, so it would appear you have tolerated this situation for almost 20 years? I am not sure why you think an annulment is a consideration? Either leave a situation that is making you unhappy or stay...god it really looks to me like you haven't had the balls to make a decision for yourself for your entire courtship and marriage, instead you were happy to be said and lead by a controlling woman, instead of evaluating if your needs were being met you were happy to go on empty promises.

My advise is from someone who had been married and realised it was a mistake. I never looked back and am happy I left. But blaming my ex and looking for an annulments were not the answer. I had to have the guts to move on and leave. I didn't care if he got everything, it would be immaterial, I needed to be free and there is no price on that. Now it is not an easy decision, but you do get to a point where the pretence of a relationship is harder work than paid labour.
You never had a good sex life with your wife, you are equally responsible for believing the empty delusion that it was possible even though it had never actually been demonstrated.
Where have you got the notion that you would have to pay her 'maintenance' if you both earn the same and have no kids?

December2012

Hmmm.....

Okay sex is a huge part of a loving relationship, I completely agree.

I'm going to just park it at that for now - we know its not perverse and is healthy so I'm in agreement with you that it should be part of your relationship.

However, at a fundamental level, the problem is this

- she had a pattern of behaviour
- so did you
- you tried to resolve it by getting married and she promised to change
- she couldn't change
- now your marriage is in dire straits

Lets replace the "sex" problem with any other problem that couples face, such as money, addiction, communication, smoking, finances, decisions on where and how to live.

The main problem, it appears to me, is that you both cannot communicate about this issue - and maybe more?

It can be quite scary and intimidating when you are told to go and fix yourself - it implies that the person is broken. Of course, somebody who has an issue is bound to be very defensive about said problem.

I know you've tried asking her to go get help before, but would you consider a different approach?

Maybe an approach of a workshop or communication form of couples relationship therapy so you guys can get on better. Leave sex out of it, for now. Go and gently talk about your feelings (don't forget the positive ones) and communication / manipulation issues. Ynever know - maybe she mentioned taking the men to the cleaners because she's also heard that men will leave or cheat if they don't get sex.

Go back to basics - try and work on the love, the communication and when things are safe, sex can be brought up as part of that.

Would she consider going to accord?

Relationship Ireland also see couples for sexual issues, but for relationship issues too.

Taltos

OP - normally I would say work at it.

However in this instance I can't - I really believe you need to get out of there and fast.
As above get full and proper legal advice fast, cover all of your bases.

Your "wife" isn't going to change. She has shown she is manipulative, so a few things are going to happen here.

> You start having sex - only because a) she wants babies and then you will be screwed / b) she has figured you are preparing to leave and hence wants babies to screw you over.
> Her manipulations will increase over time, you will be convinced it is all of your fault for being a dirty minded git
> You have an affair out of some desperate search for intimacy - she learns of it - you are taken to the cleaners and everyone hears how you have been mistreating her....
> Or you stay as is, over time you give up, not just on her but on it all, the lack of intimacy just eats away at you until you don't recognise the 40 or 50 something Victor Meldrew sitting in your seat at home....

Seriously OP
a) Get legal advice asap
b) Don't have sex at all now, you don't want to get trapped
c) Once you have received the best legal advice you can to protect you get out of there and find someone who actually wants to have a fuller relationship with you...

Neyite

I agree with Taltos - bringing children into this sham would be a terrible idea.

Firstly, every child deserves happy parent(s) - the two of you are utterly miserable, you from lack of your relationship, she from the sounds of it that she trusts no man. Secondly, if there is a child, courts generally tend to ensure that the children stay in the marital home -customarily custody is given to the woman in this country so they stay in the home to care for the children.

You would pay maintenance for your children, but being screwed financially by this woman would be the least of your worries. I'd imagine she would enjoy thwarting you at every turn trying to have a relationship with your children as a separated father. And it sounds like she would care little for the welfare of the child in that regard as hurting you would trump that.

You've waited a long time for children, but you do have time to wait a little longer.

Gather your paperwork, discreetly consult a good solicitor and make your move only when when you have all the advice and you know where you stand.

Merkin

Your wife sounds like a weapon of mass destruction. She has been cruel, dishonest, manipulative and very very unkind to you. Everyone deserves to be happy and you married her on a false premise. I echo what has been said about, you should quietly start paving the way for extricating yourself from this "marriage" while protecting your own interests, go and talk to a good family law solicitor.

You are a young man, you're only in your 40s, not at all too late to start again and maybe meet someone deserving of you - you may even go on to have children. You've put enough into this marriage and got nothing back so time to get out while you can. Do you still want to be in this position in twenty or thirty years time wishing that you'd gotten the hell out while it was easy to do so? I really hope it works out for you, you deserve to be happy.

Mickey Dazzler

Sounds like a terrible situation. Get out now.

LegacyUser

daisybelle made some interesting points regarding how someone in such a relationship could stay in it for such a long time without deciding to up and go.

In my own case in hindsight I don't think it was that easy to make a snap decision to end a relationship on the basis of an abnormally low amount of intimacy.
From my experience it was difficult to gauge what was normal and what was not.
In a lot of forums and discussions you read about couples with mixed sex drives and how that creates conflict, etc.
Men, in general aren't going to be comfortable talking or listening to other men's issues with their sex lives (or lack of .. more is to the point).
In my case I just thought things might have been going through a lull because of work pressures and I gave my wife the benefit of the doubt.

Things occasionally picked up briefly but now I realise that was because she wanted to see if we could conceive another child.
During those times the man is blissfully unaware that the intimacy is contingent entirely on the woman's wishes to conceive rather than as intimacy shared within a marriage that might result in conception.

Once that failed (in our case) sex has vanished for well over a year now and I've lost count.
I know there are lots who will offer the advice about re-igniting the flame, arranging dinners, baths, etc.
I personally believe my significant other is witholding because she can and it suits her.
Communication is difficult as it effectively can look like a veiled request (begging) by the man to have resume sex again no matter what way it is couched.