Previous Employer Refusing to Give me P45

SusieBlue

I finished with my last employers at the end of April, going straight into another job.

Since then I've been trying to get my P45 but they're proving very hard to communicate with. No one will answer the work phone and the managers mobile is permanently switched off, I think he's after blocking my mobile number. I've tried going in to physically ask for it but the manager stops me at the door every time and tells me he'll be in touch later that day to organise something.

I didn't exactly leave on the best of terms, we got a new management team who told us on their first day they would be cutting staff by 60% and lo and behold, the following week, my hours were cut from 16hrs a week to 4hrs. The following week I got no hours, they did this to about 15 of us.
No hard feelings, I was píssed off at how we were treated but I didn't care cause I found a new job quickly.

I spent 8 months on emergency tax with that company (I was using it as a savings scheme ) so I'm owed well over €1,000 in tax back.

I can't get my tax back until I get my P45, and I really need the money.

Any advice?

highly1111

Can you ask your current employer to try and contact them to request it? Someone from your current hr department??

Other than that my suggestions aren't very kind - if it was me I'd be door-stepping them & not leaving until it was in my hands. Maybe you could report them to revenue too for withholding information but I don't know how viable that is either.

highlydebased

Contact the Revenue. The regional compliance unit will investigate. That will move things along.

Stella Virgo

go to your local tax office,they will give you one,no bother.might be no harm to bring a few pay reciepts with you.

Mrs OBumble

I'd go back there, and tell the manager that if you don't get your P45 within 3 days, you will be reporting them to Revenue. (And any other regulatory bodies that they may be worried about depending on what type of business it is ... NERA, food-safety, etc)

SusieBlue

My current employers don't have a HR department, unfortunately.

I've been very patient and understand, I know from working there that they are very busy but its been over 6 weeks since I left.

The last time I managed to get through to the work phone, one of my former colleagues answered, told me the manager didn't have time to speak to me but that he'd order my P45 when he got a chance but to expect it to take at least another month for him to have time to organise it. He also asked me to pass the message along to a few other former staff who quit when our hours were cut, so I know I'm not the only one having trouble with this.

I thought it was pretty shítty that he didn't have the decency to contact me himself, along with the fact that he wanted me to pass the message along to my other former colleagues.

I'll report them to Revenue on Tuesday.

I've been told I can sue for constructive dismissal, as the only reason I quit was because my hours went for 16, to 4, to zero. I also wasn't given any notice that this would be happening.

It isn't a professionally run company AT ALL which isn't helping. I really need that money, I hope revenue can sort it.

Kristopherus

Tell your local Revenue Office that your employer is refusing your requests for a P45. They won't be long putting the skids under them. You state that you worked there for 8 months. That means you worked there in 2012. Did you get a P60 for 2012? You should have got it before mid- Feb.If/when you have it, take it to your local Revenue Office. They will issue a P21 form, which is a balancing statement. At the bottom it will tell you if you are due a refund.

SusieBlue

Kristopherus wrote: »

Tell your local Revenue Office that your employer is refusing your requests for a P45. They won't be long putting the skids under them. You state that you worked there for 8 months. That means you worked there in 2012. Did you get a P60 for 2012? You should have got it before mid- Feb.If/when you have it, take it to your local Revenue Office. They will issue a P21 form, which is a balancing statement. At the bottom it will tell you if you are due a refund.

Yeah, I have a P60, it says I'm due €700, so if I bring that to the tax office will I be able to at least start processing that amount without the P45?

Sorry about all the questions, I've never had to deal with this before.

Kristopherus

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Yeah, I have a P60, it says I'm due €700, so if I bring that to the tax office will I be able to at least start processing that amount without the P45?

Sorry about all the questions, I've never had to deal with this before.

Yes, they can process 2012 tax without the P45. They will also probably issue you with a Certificate of Credits for 2013 if your previous employer continues to act the maggot. This cert may be effective only from the date you joined your new employer.

Mrs OBumble

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Yeah, I have a P60, it says I'm due €700, so if I bring that to the tax office will I be able to at least start processing that amount without the P45?

Sorry about all the questions, I've never had to deal with this before.

Yes.

But I'm not sure that the P60 tells you what you're due. It tells you what you've paid, working out what you are entitled to get back is a different calculation.

No probs re all the questions ... they're what boards is here for.

Stella Virgo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I'd go back there, and tell the manager that if you don't get your P45 within 3 days, you will be reporting them to Revenue. (And any other regulatory bodies that they may be worried about depending on what type of business it is ... NERA, food-safety, etc)

she has asked already! why would she ask him again,this piece of **** deserves the full weight of revenue on his back.too many ***** like him have shafted people over the years.do NOT contact him,go straight to your tax office tues morn.bring all the payslips etc with you.this bollox needs a shock badly and the tax man will gladly oblige. DO IT.

irishguy

But you don't need a P45. Ask your current employer for thier employers register number the ring the revenue tell them you started in the new place give them your employes reg number and it will all be sorted in a couple of weeks. Make sure to ask for a P35 balancing statement off the revenue really next year, just to make sure you haven't over paid.

RiseToMe

I was in the exact same situation about two years ago, on Tuesday go into the tax office (you have to go in person) with your wage slips and any p60's etc you have. They will sort it all for you.

I really hope you have wage slips beside my previous employer was deducting tax but not actually paying it to revenue so revenue had no record of me paying tax in that job only for I had my wage slips stating what tax was deducted.

SusieBlue

I have some, but not all of my payslips. I definitely have the second last one given to me by my old employer - Will that make a difference? I'm really starting to panic now...

Mrs OBumble

Stella Virgo wrote: »

this bollox needs a shock badly and the tax man will gladly oblige. DO IT.

The bad news is that Revenue's powers are not quite as magic as you think.

Yes, they will write a letter reminding the employer that under section whatever of the whatever act, they are liable to issue P45s with X days ... and yes, they can take legal action over major failures to administer the PAYE system correctly. But these things take time, and sometimes they decide it's not worth pursing a particuar employer, etc.

So sometimes the threat of being reported to whatever regulator the employer is scared of can sometimes be more powerful than the report itself.

orchidsrpretty

As another poster said, you can ring the tax office on tuesday with your new employers number. You dont have to go into the office with payslips etc. You can also ask them for a balancing statement for last year, this will get you the tax you overpaid back from last year and you can do the same next year.
The employer number will be on your payslip also.

drumlover22

If you register for PAYE anytime, you can request a P21 balancing statement online and your refund will be paid straight into your bank. I also think you can get a Tax credit certificate on it as well

wmpdd3

I would go in as your previous employer could still have you as still employed there.

Cushie Butterfield

Of course you can report them to revenue, but you need to get this sorted now (for your own satisfaction if nothing else) without any delay time waiting for a revenue investigation. You've been fobbed off for long enough & you need to show them that you mean business.

My advice would be to either ring or go in on tuesday morning, inform them that you have already contacted revenue, who have advised you to obtain a statement of earnings for 2013 (which can be issued more or less immediately) by close of business that day, to do you until such time they can issue you with a P45.

I would also mention that revenue found it very strange & are concerned that it hasn't been issued already & have instructed you to let them know when your ex employer claims it will be issued.

After getting the statement of earnings & been given a date when your P45 will be available I would at that stage get on to revenue & tell them exactly what has happened.

tatli_lokma

irishguy wrote: »

Make sure to ask for a P35 balancing statement off the revenue really next year, just to make sure you haven't over paid.

Its a P21 that's a balancing statement not a P35. P35 is what the employer files at year end.

michealkirwan

solicitors letter ha screw him to the wall that will get it. no one likes those letters youll have it in no time

tatli_lokma

michealkirwan wrote: »

solicitors letter ha screw him to the wall that will get it. no one likes those letters youll have it in no time

Do you realise how much a solicitor charges to send a letter? And usually one letter doesn't do the trick. I would go with the advice given above first - contact revenue with your new employer registration number and your PPS number and, this will get you off emergency tax and your new employer will get a new tax cert for you. Also request a P21 from revenue- if a P60 was issued them revenue will have the necessary paperwork to do your P21. Then report your old employer to revenue. If there are any monies owing to you from the old employer contact NERA. And after all that then move on and be glad you no longer work there. Don't waste money on solicitors etc, there's no point - the only one who will benefit is the solicitor's bank balance

michealkirwan

Little ted all i was saying if you were friendly with a solicitor they would do it no problem. Mine would as their a friend of the family its no harm to use your contacts

tatli_lokma

michealkirwan wrote: »

Little ted all i was saying if you were friendly with a solicitor they would do it no problem. Mine would as their a friend of the family its no harm to use your contacts

You didn't say anything of the sort. If that was what you meant you should have said that.

michealkirwan

its just the easiest way around it instead of chasing forms around which in turn takes even longer to get and still that wont guarentee a result. ill leave it at that

SusieBlue

I reported them to revenue today, they said they'd deal with it from here on in as I've been trying to obtain it myself unsuccessfully long enough myself.

Do I ask my previous employer or the tax office for the P21 form?

Also, I wasn't given any notice when my hours were cut. As I said I went from 16hrs a week to zero in the space of a fortnight, I told the tax office today and they said it was constructive dismissal, which basically means they bullied me into quitting by not giving me any hours and I only quit because I basically had no other choice. The tax office said I should have been entitled to either a weeks notice or a weeks worth of wages if they were cutting my hours from 16 to 0..I got no notice. Tax office reckon I could have a legal claim.

Anyone know anything about this? I probably won't pursue it, just trying to figure out whether its worth it or not.

Thanks for all the advice so far.

ABajaninCork

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I reported them to revenue today, they said they'd deal with it from here on in as I've been trying to obtain it myself unsuccessfully long enough myself.

Well done!

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Do I ask my previous employer or the tax office for the P21 form?

Revenue is the place to go.

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Also, I wasn't given any notice when my hours were cut. As I said I went from 16hrs a week to zero in the space of a fortnight, I told the tax office today and they said it was constructive dismissal, which basically means they bullied me into quitting by not giving me any hours and I only quit because I basically had no other choice. The tax office said I should have been entitled to either a weeks notice or a weeks worth of wages if they were cutting my hours from 16 to 0..I got no notice. Tax office reckon I could have a legal claim.

Anyone know anything about this? I probably won't pursue it, just trying to figure out whether its worth it or not.

Thanks for all the advice so far.

Certainly sounds like it to me. Contact NERA. If you're owed money, it's DEFINITELY worth it!!

SusieBlue

Bumping this as 7 weeks on from reporting them, revenue are still unable to obtain my P45. Its an absolute joke and I'm really angry about it now.

Revenue said they sent out 3 strongly worded letters and sent a bailiff type person out to get it but they still haven't given it.

Revenue reckon my employers were taking the tax out of my wages, but not passing it on to revenue, and the reason they won't give the P45 is because they don't have the money to pay my tax.

They are advising me to go to a solicitor but that'll be very costly. Is there anything else I can do, any other board or agency I can report them to?

I haven't worked for them since mid April, by law they are supposed to have posted the P45 out to me within two weeks of me finishing work. Its been 15 weeks and I'm at the end of my tether, I really need the money!

tatli_lokma

Can revenue not sort out your tax credits in lieu of a P45? I mean, normally they don't need the P45 if you phone them with your PPS no and new employer registration number.

PErhaps contact NERA (Workplace relations) and ask their advice. They might even do a spot check as if P45's aren't being sent out after 3 requests from revenue, then other payroll and HR issues could well also be incorrect.

also maybe contact citizens information and your local FLAC (Free Legal Advice Centre) before a solicitor as this might save you some money.

Good luck!

SusieBlue

I've now been waiting over 4 months, and still no P45. I'm going crazy, I really really need that money.

I contacted NERA last month and they said there was nothing they could do as it is already being processed by Revenue.

Revenue have been absolutely useless, I have rang on a weekly basis since I first reported them in June and every week I'm told the same thing which is that my previous employers are ignoring the letters they are sending out and there is nothing they can do bar send out another bloody letter.

Their offices are only open till 1pm so I've missed my chance today but I'm going to ring Revenue again on Monday and ask to speak to a manager. This is an absolute joke, I thought they'd be able to get it.

They said they've never had a situation like this where an employer ignores all warnings. Shows how unprofessional the idiots I used to work for are.
Feeling very frustrated and angry. Surely this is totally illegal!

ImDave

If I was you I would contact a solicitor and seek independent legal advice.

If you find a reasonable solicitor it might not cost you too much, and they would also be able to advise on the constructive dismissal claim. Personally, if I was owed say €700, I would happily pay a solicitor a couple of hundred just as long as I got some money off this sham of an employer.

In the first instance, a solicitors letter advising under what section of relevant legislation is being breached and outline further action might do the trick. However if Revenue have been so unsuccessful to date, I would say it is looking that court will be your only realistic chance.

If you can afford it at all, speak to a solicitor.

testicle

You don't need a P45 to get your emergency tax back, as already stated, all you need to do is ring Revenue and give them your current employers PPS number. They will then issue a tax credits certificate.

Overheal

I hear legal consultations are usually free, and that many times the money you invest in them can be recouped in the event of winning your suit.

ILikeFriday

I don't know if I'd be quick to get a solicitor for 1000 euro. You could lose a lot in charges.

If it were me, I would write a letter myself stating that they have ten working days to provide you with your P45 or you will contact the Revenue. I would also include in this letter details of all previous attempts to contact them. I would then send it by registered post.

Basically all you're trying to do is make them aware you're serious (but ideally without much cost to yourself).

If this doens't work, how badly do you need the money? If you can manage without it, I'd let the revenue do their thing and wait for the result of that.

Mrs OBumble

testicle wrote: »

You don't need a P45 to get your emergency tax back, as already stated, all you need to do is ring Revenue and give them your current employers PPS number. They will then issue a tax credits certificate.

Ahh, I think you missed a key statement from the OP earlier on, viz:

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Revenue said they sent out 3 strongly worded letters and sent a bailiff type person out to get it but they still haven't given it.

Revenue reckon my employers were taking the tax out of my wages, but not passing it on to revenue, and the reason they won't give the P45 is because they don't have the money to pay my tax.

There is no way that Revenue will give the money to the OP, if they haven't been given it themselves. And remember, they can see the tax records of other people who work there, too. (But of course they cannot tell you about what they can see.)

OP, you're gonna hate this ... but I'm thinking you're out of luck.

The legal route is your only official option, but as you say, it costs. What's more, even with a court order of some sort, there are no guarantees that the ex-employer will give you any cash: if they don't obey Revenue, then they're unlikely to obey the courts.

Mrs OBumble

OP, I was thinking some more about your situation ...

At first I couldn't figure out why you're on emergency tax still: Revenue could have issued you a cert and put you on a week-one basis until your old job is sorted out.

Then it hit me that as far as they're concerned, they're still waiting for the tax you were due to pay from your old job. Leaving you on emergency tax is one way to make sure they get it - from you.

Now this is quite unfair: you paid the tax already, and it's not your fault that the old boss is a thief. Revenue must have a way of dealing with this, which doesn't penalise you. But maybe it's not generally used until someone more senior looks at it (I'm guessing).

So what I think you should do is stop visiting Revenue - you will most probably see the more juniour staff on the desk. Instead, write to Revenue, and cc your TD.

Explain exactly what's happened (including all the detail you've given here), and ask them to straighten out your tax records and sort out your emergency tax.

Also, if you have any friends still working there, I would tip them off to check out if their own tax is being paid.

h2005

I`m in the exam same situation OP. Revenue writing letters and my old employer not responding. Did this ever get sorted for you?

SusieBlue

h2005 wrote: »

I`m in the exam same situation OP. Revenue writing letters and my old employer not responding. Did this ever get sorted for you?

No, over 5 months on and nothing. Currently in touch with a solicitor who thinks I have a good case. I know going the legal route will cost a fortune but tbh it'll be money well spent to put those fúckers in their place. I hope revenue come down hard on them and they live to regret it!

@Mrs Bumble, that's exactly why revenue won't give me my tax back. It'll be a loss to them if they end up chasing my previous employers when there's no guarantee they'll ever get the money their owed either.

I was treated so badly by these employers and never kicked up a fuss, all I want is the money I'm owed.

When new management came in, within TWO WEEKS, 36 out of 40 staff had their hours cut from 16hrs pw to zero, for no reason at all. This went on for a month while new management hired over 30 new staff, and eventually I was lucky enough to find another job.

I was competent at that job, never had any issues with previous management or any customer complaints about me. New management just wanted to work with their own staff that they had previously employed.

I can prove my hours were cut for no reason as I have gotten a letter from previous management stating that I was a fantastic employee.

Its also apparently illegal to fire a mass amount of employees only to hire new ones.

I never complained about any of that, just wanted my last weeks wages (which I never got) and my p45 (which I also never got) but now I don't give a shít, I'm going to hang them out to dry legally even if it ends up costing me more than I'll gain. It just isn't on.

I'd love to name and shame but I'm afraid I'll make myself identifiable and I like to have online privacy

Mrs OBumble

Go for it ... we all need people like as a threat to keep the rogues honest.

Thank you for not naming-and-shaming here ... mods would just have to snip it anyway`.

TheBeach

Your previous employers sound like a right shower alright, but with the way things are at the minute they won't be the only employers (unfortunately) that are taking tax and prsi from their employees and not passing these payments on to Revenue.

With that in mind, you might like to request a record of your PRSI contributions from www.welfare.ie. Now, there is no point in doing this until say April time next year as 2013 yr won't show up until then. You may never need to use these PRSI contributions/stamps but likewise if you make a claim to Jobseeker's Benefit, Illness Benefit in 2015 you'll need the contributions/stamps then to qualify for payment. They may affect the rate of pension you're paid in years to come too. Now, if it transpires that these PRSI contributions are missing the Dept of Social Protection can set the wheels in motion to ask a Social Welfare Inspector to investigate your record to see if contributions or credits are due to you for the missing period and can in some cases award them.

As I said, no point in looking at all this until April or so next but just so you know!

workingboy

i was paid a month i was not meant to be paid and now the employer is looking for the money. i left the company in february. i did not know the money was paid and only received a letter recently about this bills took the money so i did not even know it was paid till i checked bank recently. the employer issued a p45 at the time of the incident and it stated the money they had given was correct. what can they do ? what are the next steps? can any one help me?

SusieBlue

Just to update everyone, this week, 11 months later, I finally got my P45. They finally caved after being sent three solicitors letters and sent me the P45 directly myself. Revenue did absolutely nothing, were of little to no help and I'm confident that if I hadn't sought legal advice I'd still be waiting in a loop for them to get it for me.

Their excuse is that because my old employers parent company are based in Dublin, there was nothing they could do besides keep sending letters demanding it, whereas if it were a Cork based parent company, they'd be able to send a revenue employee out in person but because it was Dublin, all they could do was send letters :rolleyes:

Will hopefully be getting my tax refund within the next month. Feel sorry for roughly 15 other ex-employees who are still in limbo waiting for their respective P45's. None of them can afford legal fees and revenue aren't pulling their finger out on this one at all.

Shameful behaviour by revenue and by my ex employers. Just happy its all over with now! Thanks for all the helpful advice here much appreciated

manutdman

I parked my car in front of the companys rollershutter door until I got my p45. there was a lot of shouting and threats but when they couldn't move their gear they weren't long getting me my p45.

Stheno

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Just to update everyone, this week, 11 months later, I finally got my P45. They finally caved after being sent three solicitors letters and sent me the P45 directly myself. Revenue did absolutely nothing, were of little to no help and I'm confident that if I hadn't sought legal advice I'd still be waiting in a loop for them to get it for me.

Their excuse is that because my old employers parent company are based in Dublin, there was nothing they could do besides keep sending letters demanding it, whereas if it were a Cork based parent company, they'd be able to send a revenue employee out in person but because it was Dublin, all they could do was send letters :rolleyes:

Will hopefully be getting my tax refund within the next month. Feel sorry for roughly 15 other ex-employees who are still in limbo waiting for their respective P45's. None of them can afford legal fees and revenue aren't pulling their finger out on this one at all.

Shameful behaviour by revenue and by my ex employers. Just happy its all over with now! Thanks for all the helpful advice here much appreciated

Good for you, delighted to read it

Stheno

workingboy wrote: »

i was paid a month i was not meant to be paid and now the employer is looking for the money. i left the company in february. i did not know the money was paid and only received a letter recently about this bills took the money so i did not even know it was paid till i checked bank recently. the employer issued a p45 at the time of the incident and it stated the money they had given was correct. what can they do ? what are the next steps? can any one help me?

Your employer (or former employer) can request the money back, it was given to you in error

sparkling sea

NERA should have been able to help you here. They can advocate on a persons behalf. Revenue should have been more helpful too.

Its a disgrace these services werent more helpful too you

Tobyglen

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Just to update everyone, this week, 11 months later, I finally got my P45. They finally caved after being sent three solicitors letters and sent me the P45 directly myself. Revenue did absolutely nothing, were of little to no help and I'm confident that if I hadn't sought legal advice I'd still be waiting in a loop for them to get it for me.

Their excuse is that because my old employers parent company are based in Dublin, there was nothing they could do besides keep sending letters demanding it, whereas if it were a Cork based parent company, they'd be able to send a revenue employee out in person but because it was Dublin, all they could do was send letters :rolleyes:

Will hopefully be getting my tax refund within the next month. Feel sorry for roughly 15 other ex-employees who are still in limbo waiting for their respective P45's. None of them can afford legal fees and revenue aren't pulling their finger out on this one at all.

Shameful behaviour by revenue and by my ex employers. Just happy its all over with now! Thanks for all the helpful advice here much appreciated

Why haven't you named and shamed the company? Surely now you should name them and at least your ex employees might have a chance to get their p-45s based on negative publicity.

SusieBlue

Tobyglen wrote: »

Why haven't you named and shamed the company? Surely now you should name them and at least your ex employees might have a chance to get their p-45s based on negative publicity.

I'd have no problem but it'd make myself identifiable, plus I think its against the forum charter!

deno124

Similar problem here for myself, finished the job on September the 10th and yet to receive the P45, 3 emails and two and a half months later the employer gets back to me and says it has already been issued twice but I definitely haven't received anything and I know they have my postal address, any advice?

allibastor

Can you not just your new employers registered number and phone the tax office and assign your PPS number to this, they should also be able to issue you with a tax cert in lieu of a P45

deno124

allibastor wrote: »

Can you not just your new employers registered number and phone the tax office and assign your PPS number to this, they should also be able to issue you with a tax cert in lieu of a P45

I'll see if i can with their CRO number tomoro thanks