Not Being Allowed To Take Off

Tinkerbell48

My son is working as a casual (temporary) mail clerk for the post office. He is working directly through the post office and not a temp agency. It was suppose to be only for seasonal (Christmas) but they've extended him a few times. The environment is quite hostile but the biggest issue is him taking off. Since starting in October, he's only taken off once and even then it was a really big deal. They kept threatening that he'd loose his job if he took off and it was only for two days.

Currently he is wanting to take off a week in July and of course, they're threatening to fire him. It isn't a medical issue - just him just taking the week off. They are telling him he needs to bring in proof, but how do you provide proof when there isn't any??

I've never had an employer behave like this, so I don't know what to suggest to him.

Can anyone provide input or suggestions??

Thank you.

Mrs OBumble

What do you mean by "taking off" - is that taking time off, ie leave? Or?

How often does he work? Does he get hours every week? How many?

Has he tried asking the other workers there how they apply for leave? It may be that he's just communicating with his boss very effectively?

If someone came to me and said they want to "take off", I'd interpret that as meaning they want to leave the job.

Tinkerbell48

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What do you mean by "taking off" - is that taking time off, ie leave? Or?

How often does he work? Does he get hours every week? How many?

Has he tried asking the other workers there how they apply for leave? It may be that he's just communicating with his boss very effectively?

If someone came to me and said they want to "take off", I'd interpret that as meaning they want to leave the job.

I think people interpret it differently. On my job, when someone says they are taking the day off, taking the week off then its seen as vacation..I am sure he isn't just saying "I want to take off" - he's explaining how much time he'd like to take. He works 40 plus hours a week, six days a week.

Mrs OBumble

Tinkerbell48 wrote: »

He wants to take the week off...taking time off. He works 40 plus hours a week, six days a week.

So how do his colleagues apply for annual leave?

If he's been working full time since Christmas, he's entitled to two weeks of leave (roughly) by now - but they have to be taken at a time that is mutually convenient, not just when he wants them.

It may be that as the last in the door, he's at the bottom of the pecking order in terms of choosing his leave dates.

Tinkerbell48

He isn't a permanent employee- he's a temporary and they don't accrue vacation. When they take off, its without pay. Seniority isn't coming into play here. be The last time he took off, they threatened him then and told him he couldn't take off. They give the other casuals a hard time when they want to take off. It is different for the regular staff as they have union representation....the casuals don't.

nibtrix

From the Nera website:

"All employees, full-time, part-time, temporary or casual earn annual leave entitlements from the time they start work. Most employees are entitled to four weeks’ paid annual leave per leave year."

He's entitled to paid annual leave the same as any permanent employee, if he's not getting it then he should contact Nera.

It's hard to believe that An Post don't know how to manage their casual/temp employees legally and correctly, so this is either one manager who has the wrong end of the stick or the person in question is not communicating properly with their employer.

Cushie Butterfield

Tinkerbell48 wrote: »

Can anyone provide input or suggestions??

My guess is that it's something to do with being a casual worker rather than a temporary/part-time employee. Maybe they are trying to short-change or attempting to discriminate on these grounds, or there could be another reason such as employment embargo or advertisement of positions etc.

My advice would be to contact the Communication Worker's Union, make a general enquiry as to what difference (if any) there is between the two, & see what transpires from there.

http://www.cwu.ie/Contact-Us.6.1.aspx

To avoid any confusion during the call don't refer to 'taking off', it's probably best to refer to it as annual leave or holiday entitlements.

Tinkerbell48

Thank you nibtrix and cushie for responding. In both instances that he has asked to take days off (I know tell him not to use that term), they tell him that they want proof, it will probably be denied or he will be fired if he takes off. The stories he tells me about this place makes me cringe because the environment is very abusive and hostile. They question if they take too long in the bathroom.

amen

It is different for the regular staff as they have union representation....the casuals don't

join the same union as the regular staff.

They can't stop you.

wmpdd3

He must be accruing annual leave, but they may be paying him for it periodically.

Does he get any extra payments at any time, what does his payslip say, it must mention holidays due / holiday money paid.

This happened all the time when I worked in Hotels. But I would be laid off for a few weeks during the year.

nibtrix

Tinkerbell48 wrote: »

they tell him that they want proof.

I don't understand, what are they asking for proof of? That he has a holiday booked?

When you say they are asking for proof it sounds like he is trying to take sick leave.

The whole situation sounds a bit odd. I still struggle to believe that a government agency are treating staff this way, they are just opening themselves to legal issues.

Tinkerbell48

nibtrix wrote: »

I don't understand, what are they asking for proof of? That he has a holiday booked?

When you say they are asking for proof it sounds like he is trying to take sick leave.

The whole situation sounds a bit odd. I still struggle to believe that a government agency are treating staff this way, they are just opening themselves to legal issues.

He is taking vacation days (not that he has any because the casual workers don't accrue any). He is going to an event in Northern California with some friends. He has repeatedly attempted to explain that he was requesting "personal time off for a week", but they continue to ask for proof. He informed them it wasn't a medical situation but that he had some personal business to handle. He shouldn't have to go into detail as to why he's taking off unless it is medical, sick, family, etc. The issue with this location (Bell, Ca) is that at one time employees took off with short notice often. So now they are extremely paranoid about everything.

Tinkerbell48

wmpdd3 wrote: »

He must be accruing annual leave, but they may be paying him for it periodically.

Does he get any extra payments at any time, what does his payslip say, it must mention holidays due / holiday money paid.

This happened all the time when I worked in Hotels. But I would be laid off for a few weeks during the year.

No extra payments, nor does he accrue vacation or sick time.

Esoteric_

He legally accrues annual leave entitlements, so no need to keep saying he doesn't. He does.

The job can decide when he takes the time, but he is entitled to annual leave.

Engine No.9

This term "take off" is bugging me. As a manager, if somebody used that to me, I'd assume they were taking the p1ss.

Regardless of his position and the nature of the position, the boy is legally entitled to holiday time that he has accrued. And as a temp its most likely on a pro rata basis. This is usually done over a 13 wk rolling term, so if he has averaged 36 hrs per wk in the 13 wks immediately prior to his taking leave, then he will be paid for 36hrs on the wk of his vacation. The same is true if he averages 50 hrs.

For a state agency to tell an employee (direct or otherwise) that they don't accrue holiday time is utter nonsense and I urge the boy without any further delay to join the CWU. He has a legal entitlement to it. His shop steward will then firmly put this manager in his place. Granted, the company does reserve the right to allocate holiday time on an as needed basis in a manner that favours the business, but he is not exempted from taking or being paid for holiday time purely based on the fact that he is a casual or temporary employee.

Any former an post worker who has suffered the same discrimination, might do well to consult with a legal professional to determine if they are owed any back holiday money.

tatli_lokma

Tinkerbell48 wrote: »

. The issue with this location (Bell, Ca) is that at one time employees took off with short notice often. So now they are extremely paranoid about everything.

OP I take it from this comment that your son is working in California, correct? In which case no one on this site will be able to help as this is an Irish forum and all the information/advice you've already been given is only applicable for Irish workers. I recommended you sort on a US site where you might have more success.

Kristopherus

Little Ted wrote: »

OP I take it from this comment that your son is working in California, correct? In which case no one on this site will be able to help as this is an Irish forum and all the information/advice you've already been given is only applicable for Irish workers. I recommended you sort on a US site where you might have more success.

That comment had me puzzled as well. Made me wonder what Bell, Ca had to do with what the OP was complaining about

In the US you have none of the leave rights that we in Ireland take for granted.

Tinkerbell48

pajopearl wrote: »

This term "take off" is bugging me. As a manager, if somebody used that to me, I'd assume they were taking the p1ss.

Regardless of his position and the nature of the position, the boy is legally entitled to holiday time that he has accrued. And as a temp its most likely on a pro rata basis. This is usually done over a 13 wk rolling term, so if he has averaged 36 hrs per wk in the 13 wks immediately prior to his taking leave, then he will be paid for 36hrs on the wk of his vacation. The same is true if he averages 50 hrs.

For a state agency to tell an employee (direct or otherwise) that they don't accrue holiday time is utter nonsense and I urge the boy without any further delay to join the CWU. He has a legal entitlement to it. His shop steward will then firmly put this manager in his place. Granted, the company does reserve the right to allocate holiday time on an as needed basis in a manner that favours the business, but he is not exempted from taking or being paid for holiday time purely based on the fact that he is a casual or temporary employee.

Any former an post worker who has suffered the same discrimination, might do well to consult with a legal professional to determine if they are owed any back holiday money.

Okay he wants to take 5 days vacation . I will suggest that he speak with the union representative.

the_syco

Tinkerbell48 wrote: »

The issue with this location (Bell, Ca) is that at one time employees took off with short notice often.

PLEASE NOTE THAT IRISH AND USA LAWS ARE VERY DIFFERENT.

Also that union laws are different in the US compared to Ireland.

tatli_lokma

the_syco wrote: »

PLEASE NOTE THAT IRISH AND USA LAWS ARE VERY DIFFERENT.

Also that union laws are different in the US compared to Ireland.

eh, did I not just say that more or less?

Engine No.9

OP, put the location to rest. Is your son working in CA for the USPS, or in Ireland for An Post???

the_syco

Little Ted wrote: »

eh, did I not just say that more or less?

You said exactly that, and the OP seemed to ignore you (from their post after your post), so I highlighted it.

tatli_lokma

the_syco wrote: »

You said exactly that, and the OP seemed to ignore you (from their post after your post), so I highlighted it.

Fair point. OP seems oblivious to the fact boards is an Irish forum!

0ph0rce0

Gonna ask my boss to "take off" tomorrow, see what happens :pac:

Mrs OBumble

Ok, I cannot see this thread going anywhere good, it's clearly not about an Irish situation so we cannot offer any good advice.

Closed.

PM me if you know a reason why it should be re-opened.