Alan Shatter no confidence vote

skimpydoo

As we all know Alan Shatter won his no confidence vote last night but why is nobody talking about the 29 Government TD's who did not bother turning up to vote. Are they not fond of Mr Shatter? or is there a more logical explanation?.
These TD's are paid a decent wage to work the long hours they work so they should have been there.

Cody Pomeray

skimpydoo wrote: »

As we all know Alan Shatter won his no confidence vote last night but why is nobody talking about the 33 Government TD's who did not bother turning up to vote. Are they not fond of Mr Shatter? or is there a more logical explanation?.

The Bloody Whip again.

skimpydoo

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

The Bloody Whip again.

If the whip was in force wouldn't they have turned up and voted for him?.

deirdremf

skimpydoo wrote: »

As we all know Alan Shatter won his no confidence vote last night but why is nobody talking about the 33 Government TD's who did not bother turning up to vote. Are they not fond of Mr Shatter? or is there a more logical explanation?.
These TD's are paid a decent wage to work the long hours they work so they should have been there.

Do you have a list of them?
How many FG, and how many Labour?

Cody Pomeray

skimpydoo wrote: »

If the whip was in force wouldn't they have turned up and voted for him?.

Because they have constituencies and other obligations. What's the point, when the whip is in force?

skimpydoo

deirdremf wrote: »

Do you have a list of them?
How many FG, and how many Labour?

No list I only know 29 Government TD's did not vote. I know I said 33 earlier I miscalculated and the actual figure is 29.

skimpydoo

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Because they have constituencies and other obligations. What's the point, when the whip is in force?

Well as Wednesday is Private members bills vote I would expect my TD's to be there to vote. There is certain days where TD's are excused to deal with other obligations but surly a vote on Government TD takes presidence over anything else. My point about the Whip is that it forces you to vote yes yet 29 TD's did not bother showing up to vote.

Cody Pomeray

skimpydoo wrote: »

There is certain days where TD's are excused to deal with other obligations but surly a vote on Government TD takes presidence over anything else. My point about the Whip is that it forces you to vote yes yet 29 TD's did not bother showing up to vote.

That's what pairings are for; one point of the exercise is that there is prior knowledge of who will be in the Oireachtas precincts for votes, and who cannot be present. I just don't see the point of the Government parties showing up for a full turnout, when the opposition have already agreed most of them will be absent.

nesf

skimpydoo wrote: »

Well as Wednesday is Private members bills vote I would expect my TD's to be there to vote. There is certain days where TD's are excused to deal with other obligations but surly a vote on Government TD takes presidence over anything else. My point about the Whip is that it forces you to vote yes yet 29 TD's did not bother showing up to vote.

TDs miss votes rather often. It's actually rather unusual for all of them to be there (i.e. they usually all turn up for the Budget, or any big major bill where the cameras will be rolling but for most stuff a lot of them take time to do other things).

skimpydoo

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

That's what pairings are for; one point of the exercise is that there is prior knowledge of who will be in the Oireachtas precincts for votes, and who cannot be present. I just don't see the point of the Government parties showing up for a full turnout, when the opposition have already agreed most of them will be absent.

Only 4 opposition TD's were absent.

Cody Pomeray

skimpydoo wrote: »

Only 4 opposition TD's were absent.

Okay, so 4 then; I still don't get your problem. That Alan Shatter didn't win by a big enough margin? Clearly the outcome was pre-known, a full house for FG-LAB would have been superfluous and achieve precisely nothing.

I have plenty of criticism for the whip system, but once it's there, availing of it is perfectly understandable in the course of parliamentary life.

nesf

skimpydoo wrote: »

Only 4 opposition TD's were absent.

Sure. There's usually pairings done, e.g. for every FG TD missing a FF TD won't vote and similar. Sometimes pairings are suspended and so on. That many TDs missing could be a tacit disagreement with Shatter or it could simply be TDs not taking the motion of no confidence seriously since the lack of any serious public dissent in FG indicated there wasn't going to be a revolt.

gowley

nesf wrote: »

Sure. There's usually pairings done, e.g. for every FG TD missing a FF TD won't vote and similar. Sometimes pairings are suspended and so on. That many TDs missing could be a tacit disagreement with Shatter or it could simply be TDs not taking the motion of no confidence seriously since the lack of any serious public dissent in FG indicated there wasn't going to be a revolt.

or they could simply being doing " something else"

michael999999

Or maybe they have pissed off home for the long weekend!

Marooned75

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas

skimpydoo

nesf wrote: »

Sure. There's usually pairings done, e.g. for every FG TD missing a FF TD won't vote and similar. Sometimes pairings are suspended and so on. That many TDs missing could be a tacit disagreement with Shatter or it could simply be TDs not taking the motion of no confidence seriously since the lack of any serious public dissent in FG indicated there wasn't going to be a revolt.

Well to me it looks like 29 TD's who have no confidence in Shatter, and as their absence was not noticed by the media you could call it a silent protest.

gowley

michael999999 wrote: »

Or maybe they have pissed off home for the long weekend!

i think you might have something there

nesf

skimpydoo wrote: »

Well to me it looks like 29 TD's who have no confidence in Shatter.

A perfectly valid possibility. Not the only one though and don't mistake TDs who voted as publicly supporting Shatter are doing the same behind closed doors.

gowley

nesf wrote: »

TDs miss votes rather often. It's actually rather unusual for all of them to be there (i.e. they usually all turn up for the Budget, or any big major bill where the cameras will be rolling but for most stuff a lot of them take time to do other things).

i would say you were right the first time. they were taking time to do other things.

nesf

gowley wrote: »

i would say you were right the first time. they were taking time to do other things.

Impossible to know unless they start leaking some stuff to the media. If they don't you wouldn't get a straight answer out of them anyway.

ArmaniJeanss

skimpydoo wrote: »

As we all know Alan Shatter won his no confidence vote last night but why is nobody talking about the 29 Government TD's who did not bother turning up to vote. Are they not fond of Mr Shatter? or is there a more logical explanation?.
These TD's are paid a decent wage to work the long hours they work so they should have been there.

You changed 33 to 29 but I think thats still too high.
Shatter got 88 votes inc apparently Michael Lowry so therefore 87 from FG/Labour.
FG/Labour had 113 after the election (76+37) so therefore there is only 26 'missing'. Ceann Comhairle doesn't vote which makes 25 missing.

Then there's the 5 (6 maybe) TDs who are outside the Whip at the moment Shortall, Nulty, Penrose. So its down to a fairly mundane 20 missing now.

skimpydoo

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

You changed 33 to 29 but I think thats still too high.
Shatter got 88 votes inc apparently Michael Lowry so therefore 87 from FG/Labour.
FG/Labour had 113 after the election (76+37) so therefore there is only 26 'missing'. Ceann Comhairle doesn't vote which makes 25 missing.

Then there's the 5 (6 maybe) TDs who are outside the Whip at the moment Shortall, Nulty, Penrose. So its down to a fairly mundane 20 missing now.

Even if it is 20 that's 20 TD's who have not voted for one of their coalition colleagues.

ArmaniJeanss

skimpydoo wrote: »

Even if it is 20 that's 20 TD's who have not voted for one of their coalition colleagues.

Where does it stop becoming a big figure to you?
Perhaps Junior Ministers XX and YY were at an EU conference, Backbench TD ZZ is in hospital and VV's eldest daughter was getting married.

Or do you just come back with 'even if it is 16..........'.

With respect I think you are trying to see a big story where there isn't one.

vinylbomb

Ah here.....

33.......29....."even if it is 20".....


We'll be down to 5 by about 2 am.

EURATS

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

You changed 33 to 29 but I think thats still too high.
Shatter got 88 votes inc apparently Michael Lowry so therefore 87 from FG/Labour.
FG/Labour had 113 after the election (76+37) so therefore there is only 26 'missing'. Ceann Comhairle doesn't vote which makes 25 missing.

Then there's the 5 (6 maybe) TDs who are outside the Whip at the moment Shortall, Nulty, Penrose. So its down to a fairly mundane 20 missing now.

Corruption lives on. Nothing has changed. 88 bent politicians and a sorry excuse for a minister for justice.

yara

EURATS wrote: »

Corruption lives on. Nothing has changed. 88 bent politicians and a sorry excuse for a minister for justice.

we let it carry on. if we cared enough about the whole situation we'd be up there making sure they didn't have a nice long relaxing bank holiday weekend.

golfball37

It wasn't that long ago the other side of the house voted confidence in Willie O'Dea for a far more serious breach of the same office.

The Dail is a sham, perfect for this failed Vichy state in many respects.

Good loser

skimpydoo wrote: »

Even if it is 20 that's 20 TD's who have not voted for one of their coalition colleagues.

Wouldn't it have been mannerly to thank Armani for his correction of your earlier numbers?

You made an argument based on certain facts and when the facts turned out to be wrong persisted with the same charge. Bad practice.

Niall Collins is a poltroon imo.