Is Waterford or Limerick The Oldest City In Ireland

Totally Tropical · 30-05-2013 7:54pm #1

I don't want a slagging match here so keep that rubbish out of this thread.I always thought Waterford was the oldest city in Ireland but according to someone on the Limerick forum Limerick was granted a city charter before Waterford.Is this a clear cut issue?Which one is actually the oldest?

Chris Ryan · 30-05-2013 7:57pm

Fairly sure it's Waterford

Dyr · 30-05-2013 8:01pm

Limerick looks older anyway

mike65 · 30-05-2013 8:03pm

They are referring the the Charter of King John presumably. Limerick 1199 Waterford 1206.
Dublin is 1172, Cork is 1185, Kilkenny is 1383 (status since lost though the name remains for local pride) and Galway only in 1985.

orestes · 30-05-2013 8:04pm

Go to wiki, sort by date, here's what they say:

Dublin 1172
Cork 1185
Limerick 1199
Waterford 1206
Kilkenny 1383

Totally Tropical · 30-05-2013 8:05pm

mike65 wrote: »

They are referring the the Charter of King John presumably. Limerick 1199 Waterford 1206.
Dublin is 1172, Cork is 1185, Kilkenny is 1383 (status since lost though the name remains for local pride) and Galway only in 1985.

So does that mean that Limerick is the oldest city in Ireland?

corktina · 30-05-2013 8:07pm

Totally Tropical wrote: »

So does that mean that Limerick is the oldest city in Ireland?

no ...it means Dublin is.....

A0 · 30-05-2013 8:09pm

Totally Tropical wrote: »

So does that mean that Limerick is the oldest city in Ireland?

No... Galway is...

mike65 · 30-05-2013 8:10pm

Dublin is the oldest both as a "City" and the first significant population centre.

Boscoirl · 30-05-2013 8:16pm

My favourite game is calling Kilkenny a town in front of Kilkenny people, it's great fun.

Kilkenny has a Cathedral you know

Tim the Enchanter · 30-05-2013 8:18pm

Waterford was one of the first major settlements in Ireland. Founded by the vikings in the 9th century. Also Cromwell never got his slimey hands on it. Our national flag was also first raised in waterford.

Totally Tropical · 30-05-2013 8:19pm

corktina wrote: »

no ...it means Dublin is.....

God how did i miss that!So Dublin 1172 Cork 1185 Limerick 1199 and Waterford 1206.So Cork is actually the second oldest city in Ireland?

Totally Tropical · 30-05-2013 8:22pm

Tim the Enchanter wrote: »

Waterford was one of the first major settlements in Ireland. Founded by the vikings in the 9th century. Also Cromwell never got his slimey hands on it. Our national flag was also first raised in waterford.

So you don't go by the charter of king john you go back to the 9th century when the settlement of what is now Waterford was being developed by the vikings before any of Dublin Cork and Limerick?

Mr Tibbs · 30-05-2013 8:25pm

Tim the Enchanter wrote: »

Waterford was one of the first major settlements in Ireland. Founded by the vikings in the 9th century. Also Cromwell never got his slimey hands on it. Our national flag was also first raised in waterford.

And we were ate'n Blaas when all the rest of them were still ate'n soggy spuds.

Totally Tropical · 30-05-2013 8:32pm

Tim the Enchanter wrote: »

Yes. Also s

If that's the case so it's all about perception.Going on what you said Waterford was an urban settlement before some english kings charter.Therefore i consider Waterford to be irelands oldest city.

Tim the Enchanter · 30-05-2013 8:33pm

Totally Tropical wrote: »

So you don't go by the charter of king john you go back to the 9th century when the settlement of what is now Waterford was being developed by the vikings before any of Dublin Cork and Limerick?

Yes. Also the earliest settlement in Ireland was found in Waterford when the city square shopping centre was being built in the early 90's. Who gave king john the authority to dictate history?

everdead.ie · 30-05-2013 8:34pm

mike65 wrote: »

They are referring the the Charter of King John presumably. Limerick 1199 Waterford 1206.
Dublin is 1172, Cork is 1185, Kilkenny is 1383 (status since lost though the name remains for local pride) and Galway only in 1985.

Fairly sure Galway became a "city" in the 1480's.

Totally Tropical · 30-05-2013 8:37pm

Tim the Enchanter wrote: »

Yes. Also the earliest settlement in Ireland was found in Waterford when the city square shopping centre was being built in the early 90's. Who gave king john the authority to dictate history?

That's my question answered so like it or lump it Waterford is the oldest city in Ireland and i have to say it's one of irelands true hidden treasures.Why can't ye market that status by drawing the tourists in?They all choose Cork Dublin and Galway for their city breaks.It look's like those places market themselves better.

Totally Tropical · 30-05-2013 8:38pm

everdead.ie wrote: »

Fairly sure Galway became a "city" in the 1480's.

Did it i was sure Galway was only considered to be a town up until the late 1970's.

Mr Tibbs · 30-05-2013 8:40pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterford

Waterford is the recognised as the oldest city in Ireland. We will be celebrating 1,100 very shortly. Long before British rule.

michellie · 30-05-2013 8:42pm

Mr Tibbs wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterford

Waterford is the recognised as the oldest city in Ireland. We will be celebrating 1,100 very shortly. Long before British rule.

When will that be and more importantly where is the party? I suggest something similar to tall ships weekend but we must have sun, that's very important.

Tim the Enchanter · 30-05-2013 8:45pm

Totally Tropical wrote: »

That's my question answered so like it or lump it Waterford is the oldest city in Ireland and i have to say it's one of irelands true hidden treasures.Why can't ye market that status by drawing the tourists in?They all choose Cork Dublin and Galway for their city breaks.It look's like those places market themselves better.

I agree but unfortunatly most politcal entities do not share this view.

omega666 · 30-05-2013 8:48pm

Waterford isnt a real city to be fair. it's far too small.

Totally Tropical · 30-05-2013 8:50pm

omega666 wrote: »

Waterford isnt a real city to be fair. it's far too small.

History say's otherwise.None of Irelands cities outside of Dublin would be cities on a global scale but Waterford is very much a city by irish standards.

seven_eleven · 30-05-2013 8:50pm

omega666 wrote: »

Waterford isnt a real city to be fair. it's far too small.

yeah because we havent had this retárded argument 10237309372 on boards before. Go away with comments like that, derailing threads.

Neeson · 30-05-2013 8:52pm

Totally Tropical wrote: »

History say's otherwise.None of Ireland cities outside of Dublin would be cities on a global scale but Waterford is very much a city by irish standards.

I'd say all these Americans coming over for the gathering are looking at all the cities in the country and thinking Jesus this is just a small town.

omega666 · 30-05-2013 8:59pm

Totally Tropical wrote: »

History say's otherwise.None of Irelands cities outside of Dublin would be cities on a global scale but Waterford is very much a city by irish standards.

Cork would, and Possibly Limerick.
Waterford is only a large town in reality.

Tim the Enchanter · 30-05-2013 9:05pm

omega666 wrote: »

Cork would, and Possibly Limerick.
Waterford is only a large town in reality.

But thats not the question here. Waterford has more history inside her walls than most so called citys throughout the world

Totally Tropical · 30-05-2013 9:07pm

omega666 wrote: »

Cork would, and Possibly Limerick.
Waterford is only a large town in reality.

Take the Waterford bashing somewhere else.Im from Cork and it would be my favourite irish city.It's the perfect size it's not too big or too small but Cork and Limerick wouldn't be classed as cities on a global scale.Even Dublin is pretty small compared to other major cities in Europe,Australia and the USA!Cork and Limerick are a fair bit bigger than Waterford but like it or lump it Waterford is a city and it's the oldest city in Ireland actually so put that in your pipe and smoke it.:)

orestes · 30-05-2013 9:12pm

Totally Tropical wrote: »

If that's the case so it's all about perception.Going on what you said Waterford was an urban settlement before some english kings charter.Therefore i consider Waterford to be irelands oldest city.

Why ask a question if you are going to ignore the answer and just go with what you want to think anyway?

harry Bailey esq · 30-05-2013 9:13pm

Neeson wrote: »

I'd say all these Americans coming over for the gathering are looking at all the cities in the country and thinking Jesus this is just a small town.

in the usa there are 'cities' with a population of just a few hundred

Totally Tropical · 30-05-2013 9:14pm

orestes wrote: »

Why ask a question if you are going to ignore the answer and just go with what you want to think anyway?

I asked a question and i deemed Tim The Enchanters answer to be satisfactory.Waterford was an urban settlement long before King John even wrote out his list!

Mr Tibbs · 30-05-2013 9:21pm

Totally Tropical wrote: »

Take the Waterford bashing somewhere else.Im from Cork and it would be my favourite irish city.It's the perfect size it's not too big or too small but Cork and Limerick wouldn't be classed as cities on a global scale.to Even Dublin is pretty small compared other major cities in Europe,Australia and the USA!Cork and Limerick are a fair bit bigger than Waterford but like it or lump it Waterford is a city and it's the oldest city in Ireland actually so put that in your pipe and smoke it.:)

Actually when we were part of the British empire Dublin was regared as the second city of the British Isles. They even put a second Nelson's pillar there and the Irish were so grateful they blew it up.

orestes · 30-05-2013 9:23pm

Totally Tropical wrote: »

I asked a question and i deemed Tim The Enchanters answer to be satisfactory.Waterford was an urban settlement long before King John even wrote out his list!

You asked what is the oldest city, an urban settlement is not a city, and Dublin was an urban settlement before Waterford, so either way Waterford isn't the oldest. If you ask a question about historical fact you can't just go with the answer you like most.

Totally Tropical · 30-05-2013 9:25pm

orestes wrote: »

You asked what is the oldest city, an urban settlement is not a city, and Dublin was an urban settlement before Waterford, so either way Waterford isn't the oldest. Sorry.

Can you prove that though?It's up to you to provide the proof.

Balmed Out · 30-05-2013 9:25pm

I think the OP is trolling to see if they can incite the normal silly responses of where I am is better then where you are.

Neeson · 30-05-2013 9:27pm

harry Bailey esq wrote: »

in the usa there are 'cities' with a population of just a few hundred

This is true.

The Backwards Man · 30-05-2013 9:28pm

Derry is the longest continuously inhabited place. OK, it wasn't a city until the 1600s and it isn't even in Ireland, but I'm still right.

Totally Tropical · 30-05-2013 9:30pm

Balmed Out wrote: »

I think the OP is trolling to see if they can incite the normal silly responses of where I am is better then where you are.

What proof do you have to say that?:rolleyes: I just thought Tim The Enchanters answer was the most convincing.:rolleyes: Here are some comments by other people on this thread.

1
Waterford isnt a real city to be fair. it's far too small.

2
Cork would, and Possibly Limerick.
Waterford is only a large town in reality.

I asked a simple question but wums tried to derail the thread yet im the one that's trolling.:rolleyes:

Balmed Out · 30-05-2013 9:37pm

u log on and resurrect a thread from 2010 about where the biggest sh1thole in Ireland is and then start of this thread.......

orestes · 30-05-2013 9:38pm

Totally Tropical wrote: »

Can you prove that though?It's up to you to provide the proof.

Wiki on history of Dublin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Dublin:_Earliest_times_to_795

Quote regarding the date of Viking settlement (which wasn't even the earliest settlement)

The Viking settlement of about 841 was known as Dyflin, from the Irish Duiblinn (or "Black Pool", referring to a dark tidal pool where the River Poddle entered the Liffey on the site of the Castle Gardens at the rear of Dublin Castle), and a Gaelic settlement, Áth Cliath ("ford of hurdles") was further up river, at the present day Father Mathew Bridge at the bottom of Church Street.

Wiki on history of Waterford (this is the earliest settlement of Waterford):

Viking raiders first established a settlement near Waterford in 853.

Dublin was settled earlier, with or without the viking settlement, and was a city first. Something tells me you're going to find some way to disregard this information though.

omega666 · 30-05-2013 9:39pm

orestes wrote: »

You asked what is the oldest city, an urban settlement is not a city, and Dublin was an urban settlement before Waterford, so either way Waterford isn't the oldest. If you ask a question about historical fact you can't just go with the answer you like most.

This is the real answer,
Dublin is the oldest City in Ireland.
Mount Sandel Mesolithic site in Coleraine is the oldest settlement
in Ireland.

Totally Tropical · 30-05-2013 9:41pm

orestes wrote: »

Wiki on history of Dublin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Dublin:_Earliest_times_to_795

Quote regarding the date of Viking settlement (which wasn't even the earliest settlement)

Wiki on history of Waterford (this is the earliest settlement of Waterford):

Wikipedia wouldn't be the most reliable of sources but if that information is correct then Dublin is still the oldest city in ireland even if you don't go by King Johns charter.

Totally Tropical · 30-05-2013 9:43pm

Balmed Out wrote: »

u log on and resurrect a thread from 2010 about where the biggest sh1thole in Ireland is and then start of this thread.......

That was completely unrelated and my post on that that thread was one of the more dignified posts.

mlumley · 30-05-2013 9:44pm

Boscoirl wrote: »

Kilkenny has a Cathedral you know

Just because it has a Cathedral, doesnt mean its a city, Killarney has one too.

orestes · 30-05-2013 9:46pm

Totally Tropical wrote: »

Wikipedia wouldn't be the most reliable of sources but if that information is correct then Dublin is still the oldest city in ireland even if you don't go by King Johns charter.

If it's reliable enough to write college essays I think it's reliable enough for this

Totally Tropical · 30-05-2013 9:48pm

orestes wrote: »

If it's reliable enough to write college essays I think it's reliable enough for this

It's still a wikipedia link.You could be anyone for all i know.:) Nonetheless if it is correct then Dublin is the oldest city in Ireland with Waterford second.

Tim the Enchanter · 30-05-2013 9:58pm

Archiological evidence would seem to suggest that waterford was the first viking settlement. There may well have been a settlement in dublin prior to this. Settlement does not necessarily mean city though. For those of you in doubt, visit the viking triangle in waterford sometime and then decide!

Totally Tropical · 30-05-2013 10:07pm

Tim the Enchanter wrote: »

Archiological evidence would seem to suggest that waterford was the first viking settlement. There may well have been a settlement in dublin prior to this. Settlement does not necessarily mean city though. For those of you in doubt, visit the viking triangle in waterford sometime and then decide!

Tim until i see more convincing evidence other than a wikipedia link i'll stick to my belief that Waterford is the oldest city in ireland.Some of the buildings in the viking triangle would support this claim.

orestes · 30-05-2013 10:33pm

Tim the Enchanter wrote: »

Archiological evidence would seem to suggest that waterford was the first viking settlement. There may well have been a settlement in dublin prior to this. Settlement does not necessarily mean city though. For those of you in doubt, visit the viking triangle in waterford sometime and then decide!

Totally Tropical wrote: »

Tim until i see more convincing evidence other than a wikipedia link i'll stick to my belief that Waterford is the oldest city in ireland.Some of the buildings in the viking triangle would support this claim.

Ok, not using wikipedia, let's see what Irish archeology folks say on their own website about Dublin:

http://irisharchaeology.ie/2011/06/dublins-viking-warrior-burials/

The Dublin longphort was founded in AD 841 and it soon became the epicentre of Viking activity in Ireland.

http://irisharchaeology.ie/2011/05/dublin-the-prehistoric-city/

This is lucky for us, as these sites are an important addition to the story of Dublin and they indicate that the city was an attractive place to live and work long before the arrival of the Vikings AD 841.

But, yet again, why do I get the feeling that you're going to disregard this in favour of the answer that you were looking for when you started the thread?

Is Waterford or Limerick The Oldest City In Ireland

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