Rugby by weight

errlloyd

I know in NZ underage rugby is sometimes (or always) done by weight instead of age, which makes a whole load of sense.

But I was wondering about upper age rugby? A lot of clubs are having trouble getting lads to play every week, and I think it's because there is a perception you can't play the sport casually anymore. People think you have to be in the gym a fair bit, you have to be heavy otherwise you will get injured.

I was wondering if this problem could be solved by introducing a weight limit for the lowest level introductory league. 3 weight bands, tight five, back row and back line. Players wouldn't have to weigh in each week or anything, but if a coach saw an opposition team with a huge player they might ask the ref to check it out.

I guess people are worried about getting beat up a little, if they felt they could physically compete they would be more likely to play?

Morf

The idea in NZ is twofold.

The islanders mature quicker and are much heavier and stronger than Caucasian kids/teenagers of the same age. It gives the "white" kids a chance not to be knocked about all the time and put off rugby completely.

It also allows the biggest, strongest and most talented kids coming through to be more challenged all the way through their development rather than getting lazy.

Is there a similar argument for weight restrictions? I've seen plenty of very "heavy" props who were extremely unfit and really unsuitable for playing higher than their current level. It really works against overweight/unfit players just playing in a social atmosphere.

GiftofGab

Don't think it would work TBH. That's the glory of rugby. You have big fat guys playing with small skinny guys. It's a sport for everyone.

I think the reason why NZ play by the weight at underage (I could be wrong) is because the Maori guys are naturally alot bigger and develop alot quicker than the white kids. Therefore the white kids are more likely to give up rugby at a young age if alot of the other guys are alot bigger than them. Plus it maybe from a safety point of view.

I'm living in Oz at the moment where there's alot of Maori lads and believe me they are huge. Naturally built rugby players. My rugby team played against a Maori team in a game the other week and it didn't look like there was a single guy on their team weighing under a 100kg. We still beat them. They were big and powerful yet slow and unfit.

I wouldn't want it either. I'm a small guy. Only 5'7 and about 75kg playing low level rugby. It's alot easier tackling a big overweight slow prop than a fast flanker / centre. The props usally go down quite easy.

bmwguy

There is an under 85 kilo league in New Zealand, one of my mates plays it. He's just about on the limit, he plays 12. I'm not sure about it really, I suppose make it available and if people want to play it, then do. You would want to have loads and loads of players though. But it wouldn't really work in Ireland, if there was an under 85kg team in my club we would have to convert centres to props, 2nd rows etc as even most of the junior players (junior, not underage) would be over 85kg I'm guessing. Not to mention the traditional teams losing players to the "skinny team"! It won't happen here, nice in theory though

.ak

That'd be interesting. I'm starting to play again this year and after getting fit again I'm actually now only 11st... Worried about playing J4/5 and breaking something, ha!

sydthebeat

.ak wrote: »

That'd be interesting. I'm starting to play again this year and after getting fit again I'm actually now only 11st... Worried about playing J4/5 and breaking something, ha!

Can I ask your age .ak? I'm 36 and would love to give it one more go before eventually having to admit time. I'm 5 8 and 13 stone, not fit enough yet but could be ok by september. No long term injuries.

Teferi

Today I learned I weigh exactly 1 and a half .ak's.

Buer

Teferi wrote: »

Today I learned I weigh exactly 1 and a half .ak's.

Note to self: don't f*ck with Teferi.

irishbucsfan

Teferi wrote: »

Today I learned I weigh exactly 1 and a half .ak's.

Ha so do I! Although preseason is coming up so that'll probably come down. My cutoff date for eating 5 pizzas a day is june 1st!

.ak

sydthebeat wrote: »

Can I ask your age .ak? I'm 36 and would love to give it one more go before eventually having to admit time. I'm 5 8 and 13 stone, not fit enough yet but could be ok by september. No long term injuries.

I've just turned 27. I'd be about the same height as you, and when I bulk up I'd easily weight 13st. I used to weigh that when I played in school at centre, if not a bit more. But then I discovered beer, and 13st muscle turned to 13st of flab! So I've spent the last year trying to get fit enough to start playing again, the result is I've gotten my body fat % down but I'm a tad light, so will be looking to add some muscle over the next few months.

Tuna salads ahoy!

EDIT: Also syd at j4 level you can be any level of fitness, you'll just take longer to get up to speed really. Interval training and plyo are great way to adjust to the pre-season imo. Get lots of that in and the body will look after itself I find. Also yeah, as IBF says, cutting down on the 5-a-day (pizzas) diet may help too!

.ak

My worry would be playing at j4 level with lads who easily weigh 18st+ and aren't interested in technique. I'll break like a twig I reckon! Ha. Wing for me I reckon...

Teferi

.ak wrote: »

My worry would be playing at j4 level with lads who easily weigh 18st+ and aren't interested in technique. I'll break like a twig I reckon! Ha. Wing for me I reckon...

The really big guys at J4 level just seem to soak tackle, it's the 14 - 15st guys you need to look out for really. They're the ones that will tackle you hard. Tbh, you'll probably be able to outrun the big lads anyway so I wouldn't be worried about it.

astonaidan

Im only 11 stone aswell and find when I drop down to play junior rugby its easy. The prop lads usually dont have the speed and the bigger guys who play centre usually arent used to taking tackles as from my experience they are usually from a GAA background.

Buer

Teferi wrote: »

The really big guys at J4 level just seem to soak tackle, it's the 14 - 15st guys you need to look out for really. They're the ones that will tackle you hard. Tbh, you'll probably be able to outrun the big lads anyway so I wouldn't be worried about it.

Absolutely. I wouldn't bat an eye lid at the fatty front rows or tight five players generally at that level. They're usually not great and are just in there because they've the size and shape. In my club, it's the 13 stone flankers that you need to worry about. Slightly too small to play at a high level but fit as hell and hit you with everything they've got.

chris85

I would be more worried about back row than front row also. But I am a hooker and I am in mid range weight and have some pace so some dont like me. I have come up against 20 stone props and happier to see one of these than a 15 stoner as the 20 stone bloke is usually much handier to tackle due to lack of pace and also struggles to get low enough in the scrum to get a good hit on.

I dont think it would work here breaking down by weight, but as mentioned could be nice in theory for underages more than anything.

pickarooney

Is there much veterans rugby in Ireland? A lot of the guys I play with are in their 50s and 60s and we played in a tournament with 40 veteran teams a couple of weeks back. There's no real age limit to starting up or starting back if you can find your level and have the sense not to push yourself too hard.

Same applies wrt tackling. The back rowers and midfielders are the ones you need to look out for.

[Jackass]

I'm considering a comeback too!

Have been in the gym a fair bit lately, I'm 5'11 (and three quarters - biggest regret in life, never made it to 6 foot ) and am at 13.5 stone, but fitness is not great at all (I could do with dropping half a stone to a stone) and need to do serious work on my legs before I'd consider it, as my knees stopped me from playing. Would need to take medical advice, it's just so hard being away

Flanker or centre for me I reckon if I make it back.

We should sort out a Boards tag team next summer!

stephen_n

I don't think size is really that much of an issue, I'd be one of the biggest hitters on our team and I'm only 5'10" and 12 stone now. I'm 41 and since going back at J4/J5 level can't say I have really gotten injured from a tackle in the last 4 years. It's always psychological if you try to pull up you will get hurt.

Teferi

pickarooney wrote: »

Is there much veterans rugby in Ireland?

Most of the big clubs seem to have an Over-35's team so I reckon there is enough interest in it here.

ormond lad

pickarooney wrote: »

Is there much veterans rugby in Ireland? A lot of the guys I play with are in their 50s and 60s and we played in a tournament with 40 veteran teams a couple of weeks back. There's no real age limit to starting up or starting back if you can find your level and have the sense not to push yourself too hard.

Same applies wrt tackling. The back rowers and midfielders are the ones you need to look out for.

Nothing major outside of Dublin apart from the odd tournament.
Bective Rangers run a vets league in Dublin. think its got big enough now from when it started 3/4 years ago

Tim Robbins

ormond lad wrote: »

Nothing major outside of Dublin apart from the odd tournament.
Bective Rangers run a vets league in Dublin. think its got big enough now from when it started 3/4 years ago

Wouldn't work here. Most people who play J4 are heavier than people who play J1. And people who play J5 are twice as heavy. Ha Ha!

You could be a skinny lad and play J2 if you are fit enough.

ormond lad

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Wouldn't work here. Most people who play J4 are heavier than people who play J1. And people who play J5 are twice as heavy. Ha Ha!

You could be a skinny lad and play J2 if you are fit enough.

It could work here with few years work at some levels

Would be excellent for underage rugby though. Lot of guys at 13/14 who could turn into good rugby players (skills wise) are just too small for the game against other 13/14 year olds.

I was a year younger than the rest of my year in school, and also a midget. It was never going to work.

I could've been a contender!

Teferi

Deleted User wrote: »

I could've been a contender!

Nah, you're still a midget mate. Was never going to work.

Teferi

Teferi wrote: »

Nah, you're still a midget mate. Was never going to work.

bigger than this guy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gio_Aplon

irishbucsfan

If you segregate by weight at under age levels, how do the lighter kids learn to hit big guys?

I was never big but hitting the bigger guys was always one of the best parts of the game for me growing up!

Swiwi

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If you segregate by weight at under age levels, how do the lighter kids learn to hit big guys?

I was never big but hitting the bigger guys was always one of the best parts of the game for me growing up!

To a point. However, I was delighted with the weight-based grading in NZ as a kid. When you are a skinny white guy weighting 60 kilos, and you're about to face a Samoan of the same age weighing 90kg, it's actually quite frightening!

It starts to even out at about age 16 or so, but seriously those Pacific Island lads are grown men by about age 13!

Swiwi

.ak wrote: »

That'd be interesting. I'm starting to play again this year and after getting fit again I'm actually now only 11st... Worried about playing J4/5 and breaking something, ha!

What position do you play out of interest .ak?

sydthebeat

Deleted User wrote: »

bigger than this guy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gio_Aplon

i immediately associate that name with being beaten up on a pitch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xrIv99L_b4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsoe7qBtaRs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgNFCxdUWOs

Teferi

Ah the little fellas are all as tough as teak, they love that stuff.

awec

[Jackass] wrote: »

I'm considering a comeback too!

Have been in the gym a fair bit lately, I'm 5'11 (and three quarters - biggest regret in life, never made it to 6 foot ) and am at 13.5 stone, but fitness is not great at all (I could do with dropping half a stone to a stone) and need to do serious work on my legs before I'd consider it, as my knees stopped me from playing. Would need to take medical advice, it's just so hard being away

Flanker or centre for me I reckon if I make it back.

We should sort out a Boards tag team next summer!

Would definitely be interested in tag, it's the only type of rugby I can play - don't have the pace or bulk required for the real thing.

That said, I haven't played tag in 5 or 6 years.

Are ye allowed to kick in tag? I can't remember.

ormond lad

awec wrote: »

Would definitely be interested in tag, it's the only type of rugby I can play - don't have the pace or bulk required for the real thing.

That said, I haven't played tag in 5 or 6 years.

Are ye allowed to kick in tag? I can't remember.

Yes you can kick but not above head height.

errlloyd

I'm a bit of a tag hoor I guess, playing on 5 teams 6 times a week :P

One of the reasons I asked about the weight thing is that I played tag over the winter for the first time this year and saw an awful lot of people who are playing tag right the way through, its not a summer sport anymore.

Personally its not my excuse, I'm almost 90kg and could probably bulk that up a fair bit fairly quick. Personally I think lightweight rugby would work as an introductory thing. Just to get lads out the pitch. All the players posting in this thread are dead right when they say weight isn't everything on a rugby pitch, but while that is all very well for current players, its not attracting new players.

I talk to a lot of people each year who are talking about taking up rugby but think that they are going to need to bulk up beforehand, sure how many times have we seen posters in boards post with those very concerns. I think this would be a way to give them some reward before loading them with commitment.

locum-motion

sydthebeat wrote: »

i immediately associate that name with being beaten up on a pitch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xrIv99L_b4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsoe7qBtaRs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgNFCxdUWOs

There's a bit of a trend developing there, fair enough!

the baby bull elephant

locum-motion wrote: »

There's a bit of a trend developing there, fair enough!

Gives as good as he gets.

http://youtu.be/KFYWkEIRWiI

Steve Perchance

errlloyd wrote: »

Personally its not my excuse, I'm almost 90kg and could probably bulk that up a fair bit fairly quick. Personally I think lightweight rugby would work as an introductory thing. Just to get lads out the pitch. All the players posting in this thread are dead right when they say weight isn't everything on a rugby pitch, but while that is all very well for current players, its not attracting new players.

I talk to a lot of people each year who are talking about taking up rugby but think that they are going to need to bulk up beforehand, sure how many times have we seen posters in boards post with those very concerns. I think this would be a way to give them some reward before loading them with commitment.

In fairness, there is a misconception that you need to be huge to play rugby. 90kg is plenty big enough. I'm less than that and I've played against lots of lads who are smaller than me at j4. You don't need to bulk up - just rock up to preseason at your nearest club in August/September and enjoy playing.

Rugby is a game about attitude, aggression, speed and quick-thinking. All of those attributes are more important than weight. If I had a choice between tackling a 13 stone center with no body fat running at me at full tilt, or a twenty stone prop who's got so much belly fat it's like hitting a tackle bag, I'll hit the fatty every time

Liveforrugby

Steve Perchance wrote: »

In fairness, there is a misconception that you need to be huge to play rugby. 90kg is plenty big enough. I'm less than that and I've played against lots of lads who are smaller than me at j4. You don't need to bulk up - just rock up to preseason at your nearest club in August/September and enjoy playing.

Rugby is a game about attitude, aggression, speed and quick-thinking. All of those attributes are more important than weight. If I had a choice between tackling a 13 stone center with no body fat running at me at full tilt, or a twenty stone prop who's got so much belly fat it's like hitting a tackle bag, I'll hit the fatty every time

what if he was just a 20 stone prop with no fat?

Buer

Liveforrugby wrote: »

what if he was just a 20 stone prop with no fat?

If he's 20 stone and has no fat, he's not playing J4 or close to it!

[Jackass]

Deleted User wrote: »

bigger than this guy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gio_Aplon

And an absolutely cracking player too!

dingbat

You don't need any size at all to play J4/J5 rugby.

irishbucsfan

You don't even need all your limbs to play J4/J5 rugby!

Tim Robbins

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You don't even need all your limbs to play J4/J5 rugby!

If you can consistently catch a ball you are out of place