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Equipment (bow arrows ect)

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  • 29-05-2013 2:06pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 11


    Hello there!
    Im taking up archery in the near future and had a few questions/ queries

    Firstly i'm looking to find a working recurve bow that has a draw power/weight of about 40lb (a friend recommended thats what i start at) i've looked around abit and have not been able to find one within my price range (which is 100-250ish 300 at most for the moment) could you guys point me in the right direction? (Oh also forgot to mention: im looking for preferably a wooden strung bow not a collapsable bow with the pully system? again don't know if thats how you would phrase it but hey im new ha!)

    Secondly along with said recurve bow could you recommend some types of arrows i can buy in bulk? if not a place online i can buy a fletching jig ( i think its called)

    Thirdly could you recommend anywhere i could find targets in bulk for cheap enough?

    Thanks!:D:D


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 981 ✭✭✭Lardy


    I'd say you should join a club and do a beginners course before you think about buying any equipment. They would be able to better advise you on the correct equipment for you too. 40lb is actually quite heavy for a beginner, especially with a Trad bow, which is the bow you described. You can't simply buy arrows, they have to be spine matched to the weight of the bow and your draw length. Most of this you would learn at a club.

    Hope this helps. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭AdamOHare


    Not sure Id go with 40lb in a recurve if your only just doing a bit of recreational target shooting. Especially if your indoors.

    Too much power and you are gonna bury your arrows into targets, and will ruin your foam/straw boss much faster and in general its a pain in the ass trying to pull an arrow straight out when its buried into the foam.

    And if you miss then kiss goodbye to the arrow. If your indoors your gonna hit a wall, if your outdoors the arrow will disappear into the distance. And arrows can be quite expensive. It wont take long for a few lost/broken arrows to really pinch the wallet strings.

    Id go with a lighter poundage... the lighter poundage will be far easier to draw back and will let you work on building a solid technique.

    Regarding the bow to get. Well you say you dont want a take down one. And you also dont want a compound (the one with pulleys). But you want a wooden one.

    So Im guessing this means you are looking to get some kind of traditional shooting.

    Regarding buying the bow and buying arrows in bulk and arrow making tools etc this website here

    http://www.merlinarchery.co.uk/

    is probably the best to use as they have a good selection of traditional gear and to be honest its a one-stop-shop and if you buy bow/arrows/jigs etc they'll give you a good deal.

    Knock yourself out :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭AdamOHare


    Lardy wrote: »
    I'd say you should join a club and do a beginners course before you think about buying any equipment. They would be able to better advise you on the correct equipment for you too. 40lb is actually quite heavy for a beginner, especially with a Trad bow, which is the bow you described. You can't simply buy arrows, they have to be spine matched to the weight of the bow and your draw length. Most of this you would learn at a club.

    Hope this helps. :)

    Lardy, I dont mean rubbish your advice, but clubs are worthwhile in the majority of cases. But Im not sure it would be the best idea for this guy.

    You see, most clubs are geared towards recurves and compounds with all the bells and whistles.

    If a person wants to do traditional shooting then it probably be a bad choice, granted you'd learn basic techniques but at the same time it would be a hinderence in the long run as they place too much emphasis on certain areas and not enough on other areas.

    The only way it might work would be if they taught him from scratch using a bare-bow. And to be honest Im not sure there are many instructors in this country that would be qualified to do that.

    Usually Id 100% recommend a person join a club, but in this case it might be best to sign up to archerytalk.com and talk to the traditional archers there and get onto youtube and watch as many videos and traditional shooting tutorials as he can.

    Honestly, I see so many teenagers on youtube with traditional bows doing things I could never do with my fully kitted compound and all my training. And those kids learned by just buying a bow and getting out there and shooting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭TommyKnocker


    Hi and welcome to the Archery Forum :)

    Firstly, if you are only about to start in the sport of Archery, a bow with a draw weight of 40 lbs is IMHO way to heavy. You would be best starting off with a draw weight in around 24-26 lbs at most. This is because the first number of months of your Archery life will be spent working on your form, and it is neigh on impossible to do this with a heavy bow. Also Archery uses muscles that are not really used that much in everyday life, so it is easy to injure yourself with a bow which is too heavy.

    Secondly, most if not all modern recurve bows are what si called "take down bows". That means they break down into a handle (riser) and limbs. This is ideally what you would want, as you can simply swap out the limbs to stronger poundage as you progress.

    Thirdly, I would advise against buying a wooden recurve bow. Most wooden recurves I see are training bows, used in clubs to teach beginners. But while they are a good starting point, they mostly seem to take screw in limbs, where most modern recurve bows take what is known as ILF standard limbs. So with a wooden bow, you would limit yourself with limb choices if/when you decided to upgrade. Also a wooden bow would most likely not be able to take the more modern bow strings, as these could snap the limbs. So you would be limited in choice here also.

    The bow with the pulleys is called a Compound bow. Although these can be taken apart and upgraded, the are usually left made up.

    As for arrows, the type of arrows you will require will depend on a number of factors, such as your draw weight, your draw length. This is something that a club coach would usaully help with.

    Finally as to targets, what do you mean when you ask where you could find targets in bulk? Are you talking about the paper target faces? If so, what are yopu going to place them on? Where do you plan to shoot? You need to have the face on something which will stop the arrow.

    If you are shooting in a club I would assume that they would have faces that you can use. I know my club do.

    The first rule of Archery is to shoot safely. So you can not just go out to a field with your bow and start losing arrows at will. You need a safe place to shoot if shooting outside a club, which must be well away from joe public, where the chance of anybody being place in danger by a stray arrow is non existant. Also if this was not your property you would need the permission of the owner to shoot there.

    So my recommendation is buy nothing yet. Check where is the nearest Archery club to you and see when they are running a beginners course and sign up. This is usually a 6 week course where you will learn to shoot, learn the safety aspects of the sport, and will receive advice from the coaches about equipment required. This way you will learn properly and when the time comes to buy your own equipment, you will have knowledgeable folks advising you and possibly the existing club members may have second hand equipment available.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 981 ✭✭✭Lardy


    AdamOHare wrote: »
    Lardy, I dont mean rubbish your advice, but clubs are worthwhile in the majority of cases. But Im not sure it would be the best idea for this guy.

    You see, most clubs are geared towards recurves and compounds with all the bells and whistles.

    If a person wants to do traditional shooting then it probably be a bad choice, granted you'd learn basic techniques but at the same time it would be a hinderence in the long run as they place too much emphasis on certain areas and not enough on other areas.

    The only way it might work would be if they taught him from scratch using a bare-bow. And to be honest Im not sure there are many instructors in this country that would be qualified to do that.

    Usually Id 100% recommend a person join a club, but in this case it might be best to sign up to archerytalk.com and talk to the traditional archers there and get onto youtube and watch as many videos and traditional shooting tutorials as he can.

    Honestly, I see so many teenagers on youtube with traditional bows doing things I could never do with my fully kitted compound and all my training. And those kids learned by just buying a bow and getting out there and shooting.

    Pretty much all of this post is complete rubbish. Are you a member of IFAF? Or ITFAS?
    ITFAS (Irish Traditional Field Archery Society) use Trad bows ONLY. And pretty much more than half of the Irish Field Archery Federation (IFAF) is made up of Trad archers. More than a few of our (IFAF) instructors are Trad archers. To say all the clubs in Ireland are "Geared towards Compounds and Mechanical Recurves" is just plain nonsense.
    Also, the best places to get any Trad equipment would be; Flybow in Mayo or The Longbow Shop in Liverpool. Both specialize in Trad only equipment. They would offer far better advice than the likes of Merlin.

    Sorry to rubbish your post, but 99% of it was misinformation


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11 Barrelbomb


    Lardy wrote: »
    I'd say you should join a club and do a beginners course before you think about buying any equipment. They would be able to better advise you on the correct equipment for you too. 40lb is actually quite heavy for a beginner, especially with a Trad bow, which is the bow you described. You can't simply buy arrows, they have to be spine matched to the weight of the bow and your draw length. Most of this you would learn at a club.

    Hope this helps. :)

    Thanks for the advice ha, i know abit about shooting as is not much though and in regards to a club im in an area where its a damn pain to make it to an area with one ha. And what would you recommend a recurve poundage to be ? i was only going off what a freind told me not much clue what im buying at the moment ha ^^


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 Barrelbomb


    Lardy wrote: »
    Pretty much all of this post is complete rubbish. Are you a member of IFAF? Or ITFAS?
    ITFAS (Irish Traditional Field Archery Society) use Trad bows ONLY. And pretty much more than half of the Irish Field Archery Federation (IFAF) is made up of Trad archers. More than a few of our (IFAF) instructors are Trad archers. To say all the clubs in Ireland are "Geared towards Compounds and Mechanical Recurves" is just plain nonsense.
    Also, the best places to get any Trad equipment would be; Flybow in Mayo or The Longbow Shop in Liverpool. Both specialize in Trad only equipment. They would offer far better advice than the likes of Merlin.

    Sorry to rubbish your post, but 99% of it was misinformation

    By any chance would the longbow shop have a website and do deliveries? From what you have described yeah its traditional shooting i want to get into (recurve ect)


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 Barrelbomb


    Hi and welcome to the Archery Forum :)

    Firstly, if you are only about to start in the sport of Archery, a bow with a draw weight of 40 lbs is IMHO way to heavy. You would be best starting off with a draw weight in around 24-26 lbs at most. This is because the first number of months of your Archery life will be spent working on your form, and it is neigh on impossible to do this with a heavy bow. Also Archery uses muscles that are not really used that much in everyday life, so it is easy to injure yourself with a bow which is too heavy.

    Secondly, most if not all modern recurve bows are what si called "take down bows". That means they break down into a handle (riser) and limbs. This is ideally what you would want, as you can simply swap out the limbs to stronger poundage as you progress.

    Thirdly, I would advise against buying a wooden recurve bow. Most wooden recurves I see are training bows, used in clubs to teach beginners. But while they are a good starting point, they mostly seem to take screw in limbs, where most modern recurve bows take what is known as ILF standard limbs. So with a wooden bow, you would limit yourself with limb choices if/when you decided to upgrade. Also a wooden bow would most likely not be able to take the more modern bow strings, as these could snap the limbs. So you would be limited in choice here also.

    The bow with the pulleys is called a Compound bow. Although these can be taken apart and upgraded, the are usually left made up.

    As for arrows, the type of arrows you will require will depend on a number of factors, such as your draw weight, your draw length. This is something that a club coach would usaully help with.

    Finally as to targets, what do you mean when you ask where you could find targets in bulk? Are you talking about the paper target faces? If so, what are yopu going to place them on? Where do you plan to shoot? You need to have the face on something which will stop the arrow.

    If you are shooting in a club I would assume that they would have faces that you can use. I know my club do.

    The first rule of Archery is to shoot safely. So you can not just go out to a field with your bow and start losing arrows at will. You need a safe place to shoot if shooting outside a club, which must be well away from joe public, where the chance of anybody being place in danger by a stray arrow is non existant. Also if this was not your property you would need the permission of the owner to shoot there.

    So my recommendation is buy nothing yet. Check where is the nearest Archery club to you and see when they are running a beginners course and sign up. This is usually a 6 week course where you will learn to shoot, learn the safety aspects of the sport, and will receive advice from the coaches about equipment required. This way you will learn properly and when the time comes to buy your own equipment, you will have knowledgeable folks advising you and possibly the existing club members may have second hand equipment available.

    Thank you for the info! Yeah im only planning on buying when i have all the info i need, a place to shoot and have found a club in my area i can learn from so no worries about my harming anyone there ha


  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭AdamOHare


    Lardy wrote: »
    Pretty much all of this post is complete rubbish. Are you a member of IFAF? Or ITFAS?
    ITFAS (Irish Traditional Field Archery Society) use Trad bows ONLY. And pretty much more than half of the Irish Field Archery Federation (IFAF) is made up of Trad archers. More than a few of our (IFAF) instructors are Trad archers. To say all the clubs in Ireland are "Geared towards Compounds and Mechanical Recurves" is just plain nonsense.
    Also, the best places to get any Trad equipment would be; Flybow in Mayo or The Longbow Shop in Liverpool. Both specialize in Trad only equipment. They would offer far better advice than the likes of Merlin.

    Sorry to rubbish your post, but 99% of it was misinformation

    Nope Im not a member, but if the OP is in the same situation as me he'll find himself surrounded in compound clubs and not a single traditional club in reasonable distance.

    And I speak from experience, I bought a horse bow and started with that.

    Then I joined a club. Was handed a recurve with everything on it. Took their courses thinking "OK at the end of this my horse bow shooting will benefit". Nope it didnt. Not a single bit. Took the compound courses. Nope still no improvement.

    After spending a ton of money and wasting the best part of year I finally figured out that I was wasting my time.

    (Although I did happen to take a liken for compound and recurve so it wasnt all wasted)

    Its very insulting to be told thats mis-information. That is my actual experience and what I have learned over the years. Maybe perhaps when you took your compound course or whatever you suddenly became excellent with traditional bow I dont know. But my experience is unless you can get into a traditional club then you are wasting your time. Ive been there, wasted my time and money, got plenty of t-shirts to prove it Im not even going to argue with you about this.

    Regarding Merlin. I buy there because when we're buying bulk we get great deals from them. Ive bought from Keith in archeryshop, hes a gent and would definitely recommend but he doesnt stock traditional (AFAIK)- other than that he would have got first reference. I had one dealing with flybow..... wont be happening again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 981 ✭✭✭Lardy


    AdamOHare wrote: »
    Nope Im not a member, but if the OP is in the same situation as me he'll find himself surrounded in compound clubs and not a single traditional club in reasonable distance.

    And I speak from experience, I bought a horse bow and started with that.

    Then I joined a club. Was handed a recurve with everything on it. Took their courses thinking "OK at the end of this my horse bow shooting will benefit". Nope it didnt. Not a single bit. Took the compound courses. Nope still no improvement.

    After spending a ton of money and wasting the best part of year I finally figured out that I was wasting my time.

    (Although I did happen to take a liken for compound and recurve so it wasnt all wasted)

    Its very insulting to be told thats mis-information. That is my actual experience and what I have learned over the years. Maybe perhaps when you took your compound course or whatever you suddenly became excellent with traditional bow I dont know. But my experience is unless you can get into a traditional club then you are wasting your time. Ive been there, wasted my time and money, got plenty of t-shirts to prove it Im not even going to argue with you about this.

    Regarding Merlin. I buy there because when we're buying bulk we get great deals from them. Ive bought from Keith in archeryshop, hes a gent and would definitely recommend but he doesnt stock traditional (AFAIK)- other than that he would have got first reference. I had one dealing with flybow..... wont be happening again.

    It sounds like you only have experience of IAAA clubs and attitudes to be honest. The way you posted, it read like you where presenting your opinion as fact, when in reality, (with regard to IFAF and ITFAS at least) it couldn't be further from the truth. There is more than one association in Ireland, and not all of them push mechanical bows on beginners. And I've never done a Compound course?

    OP, Here is the link to The Longbow Shop: http://www.thelongbowshop.com/

    Also, here are the links to IFAF and ITFAS for you to have a look at:

    http://irishfieldarchery.com/

    http://itfas.webs.com/

    You will see that Traditional archery is very much alive and well here in Ireland. :P


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11 Barrelbomb


    Thanks for the links Dude , iv'e been meaning to get into archery for quite abit (back since 08 actually ha but never had much time and a recurve bow is always what iv'e been interested in using ha. Im gonna check these out, and thanks for all the feedback and what not


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    I think the club route is a good one. It teaches safety and basic archery technique. A beginners course isn't going to make a fully-fledged archer out of you so it is only the basics you will be taught.
    Our club is IAAA based and the beginners lessons are structured towards the Olympic Recurve which I personally disagree with. Opinions vary. But at the end there's very little damage going to be done if someone wants to go barebow.
    Some clubs will be very 'sights' orientated. Ours is not. We have a good variety of shooting styles.

    In terms of kit, the bow you begin with is unlikely to be the bow you end up with. A training bow will suffice to learn with and build up poundage. By the time you are going well you will know what type of bow and kit you want to buy in the end.

    A halfway-house would be a Samick Sage. It's a wooden riser with limbs that are exchangeable. You could swap out limbs while keeping the riser. Starting off, cheap Polaris limbs will fit it.

    All in all, if you can find a club that accommodates your desired shooting style than there are no disadvantages to joining and benefiting from the available kit, advice and facilities.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭..Brian..


    I would also echo the sentiment of joining a club. First and foremost, from a practical point of view, it will cost about €300 to kit yourself out fully as a beginner as you will need everything. You might find 2 months later it's not for you, money wasted. Any good club will have a 6 - 8 week beginner course where equipment is supplied that you can use to see if you even like the sport and want to commit more of your hard earned cash in it.

    More importantly the technique, understanding and guidance you will receive from a club is invaluable especially in the early days. If you go out and buy a 40lbs bow as a beginner, all you're going to do is wrestle with the bow and shoot arrows everywhere but where your aiming. You need to start on a small poundage and get your technique down first. This is essential to shooting well on more powerful bows. When I started I used a 20lbs wooden recurve training bow. A couple of months later I bought my own gear and moved up to 32lbs. Depending on your own physique you may want to go anywhere from say 26 - 34lbs. After lots of practice you may look into buying new heavier limbs down the line and work your way up to 40+. But if you jump in at heavy poundage your not going to enjoy it and its gonna cost a fortune in lost and broken arrows as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 Barrelbomb


    Thanks for all the suggestions guys i have looked through everything and all the required rules and that . Only one or two questions more for ye if you have the patience :D I have settled on learning to use a recurve bow for target archery and question wise :\

    1 aside from the obvious gear bow, arrows, quiver, gloves, and armguard what other gear would you recommend i get ahold of.

    2. Im leaning mainly to a take down recurve what material limbs should i look to invest in ? Also what main clubs accept users with take down recurves?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    If you are interested in Olympic type target you will need sights, plunger button and stabilisers.....eventually.

    Target bows are all 3 piece take downs.

    Limbs....go cheap initially as you'll go through several sets as you progress up in poundage.

    As time goes on you may prefer the 'feel' of a certain type of limb but for now it's irrelevant.

    My personal bias would be to avoid cheap Hoyt limbs or their Excel riser. You will get more for your money with other brands.
    SF limbs have a good rep and the Cartel Fantom riser is reported to be very good for it's price point. Otherwise avoid Cartel stuff except perhaps the long rod.
    However, as said, that's my personal bias/opinion.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 Barrelbomb


    Ok then another question arises from that seeing as (when i eventually start heading to a club and have done the beginner course) i'm dead set on a 3 piece recurve, Does the riser only go with certain limbs or are most risers universal ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,305 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    greysides wrote: »
    A beginners course isn't going to make a fully-fledged archer out of you so it is only the basics you will be taught.
    Fully 'fletched' surely?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    Barrelbomb wrote: »
    Does the riser only go with certain limbs or are most risers universal ?

    As I understand it, there are two main connection systems.

    Universal Limb Fitting (ULF): Essentially one bolt keeps on each limb tight to the riser. It is non-adjustable and mainly used in training bows and some hunting bows.

    s_kb06l.jpg


    International Limb Fitting (ILF): This is the connection system used on commonly used target risers. It allows for adjustability and easy assembly/disassembly.

    s_wb14_13.jpg
    dsfanr1.jpg

    IMG_4223.jpg

    7-36a%20ILF%20Adjment.JPG




    While generally most ILF limbs and risers are compatible because there is actually no published 'ILF' standard some manufacturers vary their versions ever-so-slightly and very rarely that may cause problems. Basically ignore that and plough on, it's unlikely you'll ever fall foul of it.

    It allows you to choose a riser you like and match it with cheap limbs initially and better quality limbs later.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 Barrelbomb


    Well thats good to hear then I don't wanna end up finishing everything then going to get my first bow and finding the limbs don't fit ha, infos been really handy greysides, thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭TommyKnocker


    Just an addition to the information provided by Greysides, but there is also now the Hoyt Formula Risers and limbs and Formula limbs are NOT ILF compatible. So if you should be buying Hoyt limbs make sure you buy the "Grand Prix" version and not the "Formula" version ;)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 423 ✭✭Recurve360


    Also make sure that when buying a bow that you buy for the correct hand. Most right handed people use a left handed bow. Its a simple mistake to make and can hinder your technique if you get the wrong handed one :)

    If its any help sportsden in Navan have a good deal on a Petron 30-35lbs bow. Its basic and doesnt have much upgrade ability but if its only for leisure use it will be more than enough. I shoot from about 40 feet but thats limited by the size of my yard. If I had the space I could shoot from 80 with that bow :)


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