Work want a copy of my passport..... reluctant to give it.

120_Minutes

I'm in my job 7 years, back in january HR wanted a copy of a photo ID for their "records" and while i was a bit wary of it, i supplied it (as did everyone else.

Now they want a copy of my passport, specifically the passport number. They claim that this is to prove that i'm eligible to work in ireland. Now, I'm irish, and carry an irish passport, but i think this is a step too far. my driving licence states that i'm irish, so im just thinking of telling them to use that, and that i'm not comfortable giving them my passport details.


can they ask this of me?

lilmissprincess

I know that in my current job and my last one it was a necessary thing to hand it in to be allowed work there regardless of nationality, it covers them for eligibility to work in the country. We had one guy with dual citizenship who's Irish passport had expired and despite having other evidence to living here for 20 years he needed to sort out a new one pronto.

Valetta

I couldn't see why there would be a problem in giving them a copy of your passport. If you were checking into an hotel and they looked for it what would you do?

If they are inspected they need to be able to show that you are entitled to wouk here.

120_Minutes

so the past 7 years, the fact that i'm irish, and they have my pps number means nothing?


jesus.

*edit*
I have nothing to hide, but i prefer to control the amount of info that people (work or otherwise) know about me.

srsly78

PPS number is not the same as ID. They should have checked your passport 7 years ago. This is the law, your workplace are just finally getting around to following it.

Pretty much every job I've interviewed for over the last few years both here and elsewhere in the EU has required me to show passport.

How are they supposed to know you are Irish? Because of your brogue? The law requires documentary proof. Many people complain about "de forners tuk awr jawbz", I bet these people also complain when they get asked for their passport

120_Minutes

Valetta wrote: »

I couldn't see why there would be a problem in giving them a copy of your passport. If you were checking into an hotel and they looked for it what would you do?

there's a difference between looking at it, and holding onto the info.

Valetta

120_Minutes wrote: »

so the past 7 years, the fact that i'm irish, and they have my pps number means nothing?


jesus.

*edit*
I have nothing to hide, but i prefer to control the amount of info that people (work or otherwise) know about me.

A PPS number does not necessarily entitle you to work.

They need proof that you are Irish.

It's standard practice and I'm surprised they ahve not looked for it before now. Maybe they had a call from the authorities.

What exactly is your problem with the request?

120_Minutes

srsly78 wrote: »

PPS number is not the same as ID. They should have checked your passport 7 years ago. This is the law, your workplace are just finally getting around to following it.

Pretty much every job I've interviewed for over the last few years both here and elsewhere in the EU has required me to show passport.

How are they supposed to know you are Irish? Because of your brogue? The law requires documentary proof.

i have no problem showing it to them, i have a problem with them retaining the info.

maybe i'll just email them a picture of the front cover *joke*

srsly78

120_Minutes wrote: »

there's a difference between looking at it, and holding onto the info.

They have to hold on to it because one day they might be audited.

"Show us proof that all your employees are legally entitled to work here"

120_Minutes

The fact that this is standard practice, and after 7 years they're only looking for it now might give you an idea of what my head office is like and why i'm reluctant to do it.

looks like i've no choice.

tatli_lokma

120_Minutes wrote: »

The fact that this is standard practice, and after 7 years they're only looking for it now might give you an idea of what my head office is like and why i'm reluctant to do it.

looks like i've no choice.

If you are concerned, ask who your data controller is and ask for a copy of their policy on data protection and storage. If you feel that correct procedure is not being followed then by all means lodge a complaint with the Data Protection commissioner.

Information here:
http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=4

As others have said, it is fairly standard practice and also it is required by law to have certain records on your staff. Having said that, you can give them your passport so they can check it and then they can make a note of your details manually and sign off on it to say that your passport has been checked. They do not have a right to retain a copy without your permission, so if it bothers you that much you can insist they do not keep a physical photocopy, but instead that they can hold the details held on the passport on file (such as passport number, date of expiry etc).

There is no conspiracy from big brother on this. Why are you worried about a photocopy of your passport, and yet have no problem with them holding much more sensitive information such as your PPS no, your address, your bank details, your tax details, your salary and earnings over the last 7 years? If the passport worries you, then your head might explode when you consider all the other information that is held about you by an employer - your passport is the least of your worries!

Mrs OBumble

120_Minutes wrote: »

.... my driving licence states that i'm irish

What country issued your driving licence? I just had a look at my Irish-issued one, and it says my place of birth, not my nationality. But maybe yours comes from a different country. Even so, it's a bit much to expect your employer to accept another country's verification of your nationality to cover them if the immigration people come looking to make sure that the workforce is legal.

Mr. Loverman

You have three options:

1. Give them your passport without being difficult about it.

2. Give them your passport while in a nice way telling them you think it is a bit strange. This may or may not be interpreted badly.

3. Be difficult about it and be remembered by HR and your manager as the guy who was a bit difficult about a trivial issue.

You have the most to gain by choosing option 1.

120_Minutes

Little Ted wrote: »

If you are concerned, ask who your data controller is and ask for a copy of their policy on data protection and storage. If you feel that correct procedure is not being followed then by all means lodge a complaint with the Data Protection commissioner.

Information here:
http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=4

As others have said, it is fairly standard practice and also it is required by law to have certain records on your staff. Having said that, you can give them your passport so they can check it and then they can make a note of your details manually and sign off on it to say that your passport has been checked. They do not have a right to retain a copy without your permission, so if it bothers you that much you can insist they do not keep a physical photocopy, but instead that they can hold the details held on the passport on file (such as passport number, date of expiry etc).

There is no conspiracy from big brother on this. Why are you worried about a photocopy of your passport, and yet have no problem with them holding much more sensitive information such as your PPS no, your address, your bank details, your tax details, your salary and earnings over the last 7 years? If the passport worries you, then your head might explode when you consider all the other information that is held about you by an employer - your passport is the least of your worries!

I'll do that so.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What country issued your driving licence? I just had a look at my Irish-issued one, and it says my place of birth, not my nationality. But maybe yours comes from a different country. Even so, it's a bit much to expect your employer to accept another country's verification of your nationality to cover them if the immigration people come looking to make sure that the workforce is legal.

my licence is irish.

bureau2009

Ask them will your (Irish) birth certificate suffice.

I got my passport for travel purposes. However, I find I have to use it much more often for ID purposes here in Ireland. There must be people who don't go abroad and who don't have passports.

Lux23

bureau2009 wrote: »

Ask them will your (Irish) birth certificate suffice.

I got my passport for travel purposes. However, I find I have to use it much more often for ID purposes here in Ireland. There must be people who don't go abroad and who don't have passports.

That's the thing, I have neither a current passport nor a driving licence so this would be a bit of a problem for me. But I guess, I could just get one sorted.

whatnext

Believe it or not there is a logic to all this and it stems from a UK court action for discrimination. (heard about it at a employment law seminar I had to attend)

My understanding is as follows:

An employer is obliged to check proof of authorisation to work in the country, by default.

Work authorisations are allocated against the persons passport. (probably not the correct terminology.) and sometimes for a specific period of time.

In order to ask for or certain peoples passports they have to ask for everyone's passport as to not do so "could" be seen to be discrimination. (that was the jist of the case taken in the UK). ie do you only ask to see the passports of the people of a different skin colour or foreign accent? the reality of life these days is that a person without a word of English (or Irish) could be an Irish citizen. And some one from Newfoundland in Canada with their almost Irish accent and the same general appearance of your stereotypical Irish man may have no right to work here but could still have picked up an Irish driving licence and PPS number.

It's political correctness over kill, but employers have to protect them selves.

thesimpsons

wonder what they do in the case of someone who doesn't have a passport and doesn't really have a need for one (know plenty of people who are quiet happy holidaying in Ireland) - what other evidence would be acceptable. In fairness, a birth cert should be ok but in reality birth certs really only prove that someone of this name was born on this date, anyone can get one fraudulently if they really wanted to. I've never come across this before in either irish or international companies operating in Ireland.

Fridge

Proof of Right to Work is standard thing to be asked for so that the company is compliant with HR law. When they're audited they can't just say "well of course he's Irish. He looks and sounds it etc".

It's better for them to get your passport as it indicates your actual nationality and the city you were born in. Your drivers licence doesn't. The closest is confirmation of the issuing county and country. And I don't think you need to have Irish nationality to get an Irish drivers licence. I think you just need to be resident, so there's a difference. I could be wrong, but I can't find anything to the contrary.

You have to put it into perspective; in the UK, it's a lot less clear who actually has British nationality and who doesn't. They have had immigrants for much longer than we have. So it's much more common to have people who look foreign but have nationality and people who sound local and have lived there for most of their lives but actually don't have nationality. As time goes by we will be more like this, so it makes sense to have the actual proof on record.

They need to have proof that they are not breaking the law by employing someone who doesn't have the right to work in the country. I don't think it's too much to ask. I mean, I guess asking questions before handing over information is important, but Google is your friend and the requirements regarding Proof of Right to Work is online.

TheChizler

If you have an expired passport lying around give them that maybe? It's still you but the number would be useless for identity theft etc.

Cushie Butterfield

4.8 Can my employer ask me to bring in my passport (to take a copy for HR records)?
An employer may ask to see your passport at recruitment stage if this is necessary to show that you are entitled to work in Ireland. An employer may note such passport details on your personnel file. It should not be necessary for an employer to retain a copy of your passport and such action could be a breach of the Data Protection Acts.

http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/FAQ--passport/919.htm