New entrant into dairying

Up the west

High there I'm going back in2 farming

since 96 when we stopped dairy farming I've not done it ,as my dad passed away at time.
Now I've only 40 acres he ( the old man)was able 2 successfully run a good 40 cow dairy heard on it back then, so no reason why I can't do same
If I was 2 rent I could expand I suppose but I have sheds for 44 cows
plus parlor hay shed + 3 bay slatted shed for cattle and silage slab, also land is deacent,all in paddocks with rdway and water troughs . so its laid on for me, What I'd have to bye is cows,machine (thinking automatic milker maby)and bulk tank. Might be able 2 push it out 2 60 cows if I could rent land,
would this be do able . Quota is next thing but I could wait till 2015 when it goes an start then, what's yer views here, I was going 2 go in2 suckler or heifer beef but that seems dead duck as I have no SPF ( not farmin in ref yrs) national reserve is dry also for new entrants, I'm willing and able 32 have green CRT it's all there 4 me is it just to small. Ur views lads and lassies

quadboy

We milked 35 cows up until last summer when father died on 60 acres along with sheep and most of it is poor land and all not in the one block and no milking parlour, sounds like you have the right set up

Up the west

quadboy wrote: »

We milked 35 cows up until last summer when father died on 60 acres along with sheep and most of it is poor land and all not in the one block and no milking parlour, sounds like you have the right set up[/

Is it 2 small these days it seems old school every 1 on here seems 2 be talkin min 80 upwards cows.
How if u don't mind me askin did ye milk with no parlour not being smart , ps sorry 2 hear about ur dad still fresh n mind .

grazeaway

Up the west wrote: »

High there I'm going back in2 farming

since 96 when we stopped dairy farming I've not done it ,as my dad passed away at time.
Now I've only 40 acres he ( the old man)was able 2 successfully run a good 40 cow dairy heard on it back then, so no reason why I can't do same
If I was 2 rent I could expand I suppose but I have sheds for 44 cows
plus parlor hay shed + 3 bay slatted shed for cattle and silage slab, also land is deacent,all in paddocks with rdway and water troughs . so its laid on for me, What I'd have to bye is cows,machine (thinking automatic milker maby)and bulk tank. Might be able 2 push it out 2 60 cows if I could rent land,
would this be do able . Quota is next thing but I could wait till 2015 when it goes an start then, what's yer views here, I was going 2 go in2 suckler or heifer beef but that seems dead duck as I have no SPF ( not farmin in ref yrs) national reserve is dry also for new entrants, I'm willing and able 32 have green CRT it's all there 4 me is it just to small. Ur views lads and lassies

in a simaliar vien of thought but would be working off farm. Do you have a full time job? As being discussed at the mo on other threads auto milking is an expensive set-up and geared towards a high inout high out put system. no offence but i doubt 44cows on 40ac would be enough to justify getting one, you would need to be about 65cows min. Now if you went a bit made and started rentign fields nearby and zero grazign then it would be the way to go but thats a big step.

With your current set-up i think your right to wait till after 2015 but like myself you need to know how much time you can out into the cows, who is goign to milk them and when? if you cant make that side pay then your wasting your time. I cant see to point in hiring in a fella to milk your cows unless its a big herd and you are doing soemthing else with your time that will off set that cost

whelan1

the main question i would ask anyone getting back into dairying is what was your reasoning for getting out of them in the first place and has this reason changed?

grazeaway

whelan1 wrote: »

the main question i would ask anyone getting back into dairying is what was your reasoning for getting out of them in the first place and has this reason changed?

my dad got out as the cost of rebuilding the housing and adding extra slurry storage was too high for someone in their 60's to justify. I was working away at the time and wouldn't have been around enough to help out. We used the FWM grant to rebuild the housing so that we can keep the same amount of cows either dairy or sucklers (thats paid for now). The milking machine though working perfectly was over 25 years old at the time so an major overhaul would have been due anyway. If i get back in the main capital (other than stock) would be a new/2nd pmilkign machine and tank that will last until it pays for its self and additional slurry storage for the parlour, holding yard and washings. I'd also have to roof the holding yard to reduce soiled water and proably put in autoscrapers. The roadway through the farm would need to be redone too buts thats something i want to do anyway

Viewtodiefor

grazeaway wrote: »

my dad got out as the cost of rebuilding the housing and adding extra slurry storage was too high for someone in their 60's to justify. I was working away at the time and wouldn't have been around enough to help out. We used the FWM grant to rebuild the housing so that we can keep the same amount of cows either dairy or sucklers (thats paid for now). The milking machine though working perfectly was over 25 years old at the time so an major overhaul would have been due anyway. If i get back in the main capital (other than stock) would be a new/2nd pmilkign machine and tank that will last until it pays for its self and additional slurry storage for the parlour, holding yard and washings. I'd also have to roof the holding yard to reduce soiled water and proably put in autoscrapers. The roadway through the farm would need to be redone too buts thats something i want to do anyway

You don't need a new parlour to milk 40 cows. Spend as little as possible for if you do it.
What's is wrong with the machine you had? They havnt changed much in 30 yrs to be honest the cow is still milked exactly the same way.

U need.
Reliable vacuum pump n motor
Correctly sized vacuum line n trap
Milk line and jar n milk pump
Pulsation relays n vacuum regularltor
Clusters n associated tubing

All above can be got second hand for 3 k

grazeaway

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

You don't need a new parlour to milk 40 cows. Spend as little as possible for if you do it.
What's is wrong with the machine you had? They havnt changed much in 30 yrs to be honest the cow is still milked exactly the same way.

U need.
Reliable vacuum pump n motor
Correctly sized vacuum line n trap
Milk line and jar n milk pump
Pulsation relays n vacuum regularltor
Clusters n associated tubing

All above can be got second hand for 3 k

sorry i should have phrased it better. The parlour/dairy building is still in place and dosent need much work (new skylights and lighting and a few reapairs to the doors) and the floor may need to be be recoated or grovved. The milking machine, piping, cooler and pump have all been stripped away over the years. These would all need to be replaced and the rails and gates could do with a fix up aswell.

quadboy

Up the west wrote: »

quadboy wrote: »

We milked 35 cows up until last summer when father died on 60 acres along with sheep and most of it is poor land and all not in the one block and no milking parlour, sounds like you have the right set up[/

Is it 2 small these days it seems old school every 1 on here seems 2 be talkin min 80 upwards cows.
How if u don't mind me askin did ye milk with no parlour not being smart , ps sorry 2 hear about ur dad still fresh n mind .

Yeah i was even saying before that were too small. Cows were tied in stalls so get in between two of them with the unit hook it up to the milk and air lines down on one knee and stick the unit on, it was tough going

yellow50HX

quadboy wrote: »

Up the west wrote: »

Yeah i was even saying before that were too small. Cows were tied in stalls so get in between two of them with the unit hook it up to the milk and air lines down on one knee and stick the unit on, it was tough going

thats proper old school. not that unusal on the conitinet. Many still use that system for indoor milking. Cows areheld in the the loackable feed barrier (like the ones over here) and the milkng units moved along the line and tooked into the over head line. No need for an extra miling parlour. cows tend to be very quite too. The feed barrier is long enough to accomdate also all teh cows so there isnt eh same need to bring in the cows indivdally. If it wasnt for havign to bend down to put on the clusters it would be a good cheap option

kowtow

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

You don't need a new parlour to milk 40 cows. Spend as little as possible for if you do it.
What's is wrong with the machine you had? They havnt changed much in 30 yrs to be honest the cow is still milked exactly the same way.

U need.
Reliable vacuum pump n motor
Correctly sized vacuum line n trap
Milk line and jar n milk pump
Pulsation relays n vacuum regularltor
Clusters n associated tubing

All above can be got second hand for 3 k

There seem to be a few people - myself included - who are about to start putting old parlours back in to use. In our case we have the steel work, some cashman (?) feeders and a cooler which may or may not work.

One thing which interests me is what the options are for mixing and matching the components of a refurbished parlour. For example - I'd be happy to struggle along with our existing feeders (might regret that..) but I'd want effective milk recording.

To what extent can one mix and match pieces of a milking parlour, especially while picking up second hand stuff for parts of it?

quadboy

yellow50HX wrote: »

quadboy wrote: »

thats proper old school. not that unusal on the conitinet. Many still use that system for indoor milking. Cows areheld in the the loackable feed barrier (like the ones over here) and the milkng units moved along the line and tooked into the over head line. No need for an extra miling parlour. cows tend to be very quite too. The feed barrier is long enough to accomdate also all teh cows so there isnt eh same need to bring in the cows indivdally. If it wasnt for havign to bend down to put on the clusters it would be a good cheap option

Milking the heifers for the first time is when it got really fun, just getting them into the shed was a struggle. Each cow had their own particular place so we would train them to go to that spot each time and when that cow was done youd go off and find the next cow who goes there and it was always done in the same order

Timmaay

kowtow wrote: »

To what extent can one mix and match pieces of a milking parlour, especially while picking up second hand stuff for parts of it?

Ours is certainly a mongrel of various different makes, and has done the job fine for the last 15/20yrs that its been in place for. Mixing and matching doesn't always work though, you probably are better off going to your local milking machine installing person, get them to look at your parlour and ask them to keep an eye out for stuff, they would be dismantling old parlour to retrofit them the whole time so would be able to source you stuff, and they would have a reasonable idea of what you can mix and match.

Viewtodiefor

Timmaay wrote: »

Ours is certainly a mongrel of various different makes, and has done the job fine for the last 15/20yrs that its been in place for. Mixing and matching doesn't always work though, you probably are better off going to your local milking machine installing person, get them to look at your parlour and ask them to keep an eye out for stuff, they would be dismantling old parlour to retrofit them the whole time so would be able to source you stuff, and they would have a reasonable idea of what you can mix and match.

Sorry for hijacking this just wondering anyone here got a westfalia dematron 60 control system installed? If so can u turn pulsation only on and how?

whelan1

Timmaay wrote: »

Ours is certainly a mongrel of various different makes, and has done the job fine for the last 15/20yrs that its been in place for. Mixing and matching doesn't always work though, you probably are better off going to your local milking machine installing person, get them to look at your parlour and ask them to keep an eye out for stuff, they would be dismantling old parlour to retrofit them the whole time so would be able to source you stuff, and they would have a reasonable idea of what you can mix and match.

ours is the same a mixture of everything, alfa laval, senior, west falia, pearson..... the main thing is to have someone nearby that can service the machine and doesnt mind being called at 6am on a sunday morning

Timmaay

whelan1 wrote: »

ours is the same a mixture of everything, alfa laval, senior, west falia, pearson..... the main thing is to have someone nearby that can service the machine and doesnt mind being called at 6am on a sunday morning

Or be able to do it yourself! Have not got stuck here for many yrs now, can usually do some sort of botch repair at the very least to get me through to say the monday morning and no crazy call out fees.

bbam

whelan1 wrote: »

ours is the same a mixture of everything, alfa laval, senior, west falia, pearson..... the main thing is to have someone nearby that can service the machine and doesnt mind being called at 6am on a sunday morning

That just nailed it there.
I've experience in the business and the big thing is how good is your local dealer and how good is their service. I worked for a top class dealer and breakdowns were always top priority. I've been out on calls from 5am, as late as 1am and even at 9pm on a Christmas eve.
Mish-Mash parlours work fine - providing they are installed by someone who knows what they are doing. Otherwise its money wasted.

Get a good local agent, preferably Alfa but Dairymaster are a reasonable second. You can't go too far wrong from there. But if you start messing with cowboys then you are in for a world of hurt, as will your cows !

whelan1

Timmaay wrote: »

Or be able to do it yourself! Have not got stuck here for many yrs now, can usually do some sort of botch repair at the very least to get me through to say the monday morning and no crazy call out fees.

my milking machine man will explain to me what to do if that fails he will come out, a few years ago the pulsator box exploded:eek: it was only new, i rang him, he couldnt believe it, was over in 10 minutes, frightened me and the cows, he had a replacement with him

Sam Kade

whelan1 wrote: »

ours is the same a mixture of everything, alfa laval, senior, west falia, pearson..... the main thing is to have someone nearby that can service the machine and doesnt mind being called at 6am on a sunday morning

it's a hybrid milking machine.

Sam Kade

quadboy wrote: »

yellow50HX wrote: »

Milking the heifers for the first time is when it got really fun, just getting them into the shed was a struggle. Each cow had their own particular place so we would train them to go to that spot each time and when that cow was done youd go off and find the next cow who goes there and it was always done in the same order

We had a bucket plant for years then we got the pipeline and then the herringbone. I remember one year we had too many heifers so we put a few of them suckling. The following year we decided to milk one of them, first milking she sent the bucket flying. We didn't give up and held her tail up while milking. It took a couple of weeks and she settled down but everything had to be done the same otherwise she would lash out.

Mulumpy

Im all for new young blood getting into the dairy but is anyone else concerned what's gonna happen when all this extra milk heads to the coops in 2015. My A.I man alone has 300 extra cows to bull this year. I just think that anyone getting into milking needs to have all their facts and figures right. Milk price may collapse for few years and the heavy borrowers and inefficient guys are gonna be in big trouble.

bbam

I think that could be a problem for everyone, not just those borrowing.

I'd really hope lads are doing their sums right and not just turning to dairy as suckling isn't working out. Just because there is an old parlour there doesn't mean it's a good idea to jump back in.
And top dairy men will tell ya that the parlour work is the small end of the business.

In three years costs are likely to be min 20% more than now. And then account for a likely drop in price due to increased supply. Some new entrants could be trading one poor profit business for another, but at the bottom end through lack of experience.

My advice is do the sums, take worst case scenario for costs and milk price. See if a change of business makes sense.

My sister in the bank told me they were seeing business plans coming in where lads are projecting current and even higher prices for milk out 5-7 years. Don't know if I'd borrow half a million €'s based on that idea.

quadboy

Sam Kade wrote: »

quadboy wrote: »

We had a bucket plant for years then we got the pipeline and then the herringbone. I remember one year we had too many heifers so we put a few of them suckling. The following year we decided to milk one of them, first milking she sent the bucket flying. We didn't give up and held her tail up while milking. It took a couple of weeks and she settled down but everything had to be done the same otherwise she would lash out.

Yeah our bucket took many beatings from heifers, smashed into pieces, stuck it back together and go again, holding the tail up usually worked but they hated the kick bar

Timmaay

Bbam, why do you think costs will rise another 20%?

darragh_haven

All day to day cost of dairying are increasing ahead of the rate of inflation (milk price doesn't seem to even be keeping up witth inflation). Meal, ESB, Diesel, Fertiliser, grass seed, plastic etc are going up every year. Even if you produce your milk solely on grass, the cost of growing that grass is increasing

jaymla627

darragh_haven wrote: »

All day to day cost of dairying are increasing ahead of the rate of inflation (milk price doesn't seem to even be keeping up witth inflation). Meal, ESB, Diesel, Fertiliser, grass seed, plastic etc are going up every year. Even if you produce your milk solely on grass, the cost of growing that grass is increasing

Its not just ireland where costs are increasing though its a worldwide thing serious amount of dairy farms in new zealand/australia going to the wall, likewise in america, look over to the uk farmers are getting out at record rates the only thing that underpins milk price at the moment is grain price once this stays high milk price wont drop, simply because well over 70% of the worlds milk is produced of grain and in the morning if milk price worldwide drops to say 22 cent for instance but grain price dosent budge youll have a lot of broke dairy farmers and very little milk:rolleyes:

yellow50HX

jaymla627 wrote: »

Its not just ireland where costs are increasing though its a worldwide thing serious amount of dairy farms in new zealand/australia going to the wall, likewise in america, look over to the uk farmers are getting out at record rates the only thing that underpins milk price at the moment is grain price once this stays high milk price wont drop, simply because well over 70% of the worlds milk is produced of grain and in the morning if milk price worldwide drops to say 22 cent for instance but grain price dosent budge youll have a lot of broke dairy farmers and very little milk:rolleyes:

lucky we can grow grass in this country from feb to nov, oh wait,,,,, what grass?

Up the west

whelan1 wrote: »

the main question i would ask anyone getting back into dairying is what was your reasoning for getting out of them in the first place and has this reason changed?

I hear ya lad but I was 2 young 2 go at it myself when old man died 14 but I've always had it back my mind 2 go back. But I no u just mean for every1 . It's big decision. I'm electrician not much work there but jus lookin for ur genuine views.

Mulumpy

One thing I learned over the years is when everyone else is heading out the front door its time to be slipping out the back door. I think beef will be the thing to be in in a few years theres gonna be a serious shortage of good quality cattle in a few years

jaymla627

Mulumpy wrote: »

One thing I learned over the years is when everyone else is heading out the front door its time to be slipping out the back door. I think beef will be the thing to be in in a few years theres gonna be a serious shortage of good quality cattle in a few years

Yeah have to remember alot of those quality cattle where produced of the back of quiet generous sfp payments along with the buyers using their sfp every autumn to stock up on fancy weanlings, if the cuts being talked about to the sfp occur even though are lads quiet happy to produce beef at a lost without the safety net of the big cheque every year it just wont be sustainable.

mf240

If ya like cows and have the right attitude youll make it work.