A question relating to exiting (right) from a one way road onto a tee junction.

LordSutch

Heres the scenario/question:
OK so you are driving along a one way road towards a tee junction and you want to turn right, then when faced with
this right turn, why do so many drivers move over to the left hand side of this 'one way' road to turn right?
Many is the time I have been behind such drivers, which can be very disconcerting as I keep tight right on the one way
road/street (to turn right) which leaves the car ahead of me to the left (with his right hand indicator flashing)!!!

What's that all about? and has anybody else encountered it?

Curious :cool:

Alanstrainor

People are silly...I find that answers 70% of lifes puzzlements!

CiniO

LordSutch wrote: »

Heres the scenario/question:
OK so you are driving along a one way road towards a tee junction and you want to turn right, then when faced with
this right turn, why do so many drivers move over to the left hand side of this 'one way' road to turn right?
Many is the time I have been behind such drivers, which can be very disconcerting as I keep tight right on the one way
road/street (to turn right) which leaves the car ahead of me to the left (with his right hand indicator flashing)!!!

What's that all about? and has anybody else encountered it?

Curious :cool:

Very simple.
Either those people don't know they are on one way street, or they don't know they have to position themselves on the right in such case... Or both.

Senna

Are you actually expecting an answer other than the blindly obvious? Stupidity, force of habit, didn't know it was a one way street, didn't look at road markings or just don't know the rules of the road.

LordSutch

Senna wrote: »

Are you actually expecting an answer other than the blindly obvious? Stupidity, force of habit, didn't know it was a one way street, didn't look at road markings or just don't know the rules of the road.

I guess its force of habit on their part, although it annoys the hell out of me )

I was just curious to know if any other fellow drivers had also witnessed it.

Top of Patrick street in Dun Laoghaires today was the latest example, but in this case I was turning left, and the car in front was indicating right, yet still, he was there right in front of me on the left side of the road, (instead of moving over to the right), I felt like beeping him . . . .

Baffling

dudara

Possibly to give themselves a wider turn at the junction?

LordSutch

Yes indeed, but why? like its a one way street, so why not pull over to the right hand side of the road if you are turning right, and stay left if you are turning left! Its almost as if these drivers are so programmed into staying left, that even when they should stay on the right hand side of the road to turn right, they instinctively keep left, (with a wide turn) to the right.

Its just one of those little things some drivers do which has always niggled me.

tc20

CiniO wrote: »

Very simple.
Either those people don't know they are on one way street, or they don't know they have to position themselves on the right in such case... Or both.

^ this.

or they could be members of your political party

corktina

another thread simply answered as "poor driver training"

actually in most cases it's NO driver training....todays new drivers at least will have had some training and things will eventually improve.

SteelyDanJalapeno

It gets them a wider turning space?

cython

TiltedBrain wrote: »

It gets them a wider turning space?

In most cases where I've seen this if the driver needs a wider turning circle to get their compact car around the corner, it raises even further questions over whether they should be driving

Supergurrier

This is where i shout at my windscreen "Bring it to the line you stupid ******"

SteelyDanJalapeno

If it's a single lane one way road, i'd be more concerned about 2 cars side by side using the junction.

djimi

Cant say that this is an issue that I have ever encountered at a proper two car junction. If the junction is actually designed for two cars (turning left and right) then I have never come across someone in the left hand side who intends to turn right. Usually its only where its questionable whether two cars can actually fit at the top of the road; then you might get someone sit at the middle of the junction intending to turn left/right.

galwaycyclist

LordSutch wrote: »

Yes indeed, but why? like its a one way street, so why not pull over to the right hand side of the road if you are turning right, and stay left if you are turning left! Its almost as if these drivers are so programmed into staying left, that even when they should stay on the right hand side of the road to turn right, they instinctively keep left, (with a wide turn) to the right.

Its just one of those little things some drivers do which has always niggled me.

Because what you are describing, although technically lawful, is dangerous.

As a driver you should always expect to meet cyclists using one-way streets in both directions. This includes cyclists turning left into the street that you are exiting.

Although in Ireland this is technically illegal for cyclists, it is perfectly legal (and safe) for cyclists on many one-way streets on the Northern European mainland.

Cycling visitors to this country cannot be expected to anticipate that Irish traffic management is 30 years behind practice elsewhere in Europe.

stoneill

One or two lanes?
If there are marked right turn and left turn lanes then yes - it's annoying, if there are no lanes marked, then wait your turn.

Caliden

Some people are under the impression there are driving 5 tonne artic lorries and need a large turning circle.

djimi

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Because what you are describing, although technically lawful, is dangerous.

As a driver you should always expect to meet cyclists using one-way streets in both directions. This includes cyclists turning left into the street that you are exiting.

Although in Ireland this is technically illegal for cyclists, it is perfectly legal (and safe) for cyclists on many one-way streets on the Northern European mainland.

Cycling visitors to this country cannot be expected to anticipate that Irish traffic management is 30 years behind practice elsewhere in Europe.

Its also legal for drivers in other European countries to drive on the hand side of the road, but I dont drive down a motorway expecting to see a rental car approaching me. A cyclist cycling the wrong way down a one way street has a death wish. Its impossible to position your car at every junction to compensate for such an idiot (it also possible that if you position your car to the right then a cyclist could try and turn down the road from the right hand side).

galwaycyclist

djimi wrote: »

Its also legal for drivers in other European countries to drive on the hand side of the road, but I dont drive down a motorway expecting to see a rental car approaching me. A cyclist cycling the wrong way down a one way street has a death wish. Its impossible to position your car at every junction to compensate for such an idiot (it also possible that if you position your car to the right then a cyclist could try and turn down the road from the right hand side).

Most of the population of Northern Europe consists of such "idiots" as you put it. Research in Germany suggests that one-way streets with two-way cycling are safer for all users. The idea of making Irish one-way streets two-way for cyclists was suggested in an Irish report in 1979 and the Irish legislation to permit two-way cycling has been available since 1998.

There is a difference between expecting to meet people travelling either way on the correct side of the road and meeting people cycling or driving in the right.

djimi

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Most of the population of Northern Europe consists of such "idiots" as you put it. Research in Germany suggests that one-way streets with two-way cycling are safer for all users. The idea of making Irish one-way streets two-way for cyclists was suggested in an Irish report in 1979 and the Irish legislation to permit two-way cycling has been available since 1998.

There is a difference between expecting to meet people travelling either way on the correct side of the road and meeting people cycling or driving in the right.

We are not in Germany. As you said yourself, in Ireland it is illegal to cycle the wrong way down a one way street. Anyone using our roads should be aware of that, just as they should be aware of every other rule of the road.

galwaycyclist

djimi wrote: »

We are not in Germany. As you said yourself, in Ireland it is illegal to cycle the wrong way down a one way street. Anyone using our roads should be aware of that, just as they should be aware of every other rule of the road.

Sure but laws like making illegal to cycle either way down a one-way street are just so illogical that it is likely that it would not occur to many people that such a law could exist.

Its no good making something illegal it also has to make sense. Either way if you are driving down a one-way street you should expect to meet cyclists coming the other way.

djimi

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Sure but laws like making illegal to cycle either way down a one-way street are just so illogical that it is likely that it would not occur to many people that such a law could exist.

Its no good making something illegal it also has to make sense. Either way if you are driving down a one-way street you should expect to meet cyclists coming the other way.

How is it illogical to ban cycling against one way traffic? Seems the most logical thing in the world to me.

Plus cyclists always say that they want to be treated like other road users; why then would they be able to pick and choose which traffic laws to obey?

galwaytt

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Either way if you are driving down a one-way street you should expect to meet cyclists coming the other way.

No you shouldn't. They shouldn't be there, period. It is one thing to have to allow for the cyclists in a situation where they are allowed - and even then it's fraught with danger. But it's quite another to have to have a motorist of any kind assume that the patently illegal is an inevitablity.

I mean, what about a two-way street - should a motorist expect to see them on the wrong side of the road coming towards him.............oh, wait..........:rolleyes:


Anyway OP - maybe the maneouvre is to allow for the Scandanavian flick :P

galwaycyclist

djimi wrote: »

How is it illogical to ban cycling against one way traffic? Seems the most logical thing in the world to me.

Plus cyclists always say that they want to be treated like other road users; why then would they be able to pick and choose which traffic laws to obey?

Because if everybody just drove on the correct side of the road (e.g. the left), and within the speed limit then in many cases there should be absolutely no problem with having cyclists using them in either direction.

The most basic rule of the road is to drive on the left, but you seem to be on here arguing that motorists should be permitted, and should expect, to drive on the right where they deem it more convenient and regardless of the obvious safety issue this creates.

How it this any different from anybody else picking what should or shouldnt be illegal?

djimi

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Because if everybody just drove on the correct side of the road (e.g. the left), and within the speed limit then in many cases there should be absolutely no problem with having cyclists using them in either direction.

The most basic rule of the road is to drive on the left, but you seem to be on here arguing that motorists should be permitted, and should expect, to drive on the right where they deem it more convenient and regardless of the obvious safety issue this creates.

How it this any different from anybody else picking what should or shouldnt be illegal?

You seem to be confusing a one way street with a normal two lane road. There is no left/right lane in a one way street; it is in effect just a left lane, and as such the traffic (be it four or two wheels) should all be travelling in the same direction. A cyclist cannot cycle against the traffic in the left hand side of a normal two lane road; this is no different.

galwaycyclist

djimi wrote: »

You seem to be confusing a one way street with a normal two lane road. There is no left/right lane in a one way street; it is in effect just a left lane, and as such the traffic (be it four or two wheels) should all be travelling in the same direction. A cyclist cannot cycle against the traffic in the left hand side of a normal two lane road; this is no different.

With respect you seem to be confusing one-way streets with two lane roads.

Many one-way streets have no marked lanes at all. But you are arguing that the basic rule of the road - keep left - should not apply - because that is what suits you as a motorist. This is clearly dangerous. For one, because pedestrians crossing the street may not realise they have to look the wrong way on the wrong side of the road for motorists who choose not to obey the most basic rule of the road. Secondly it is dangerous because cyclists might be coming the other way on the correct side of the road - eg. the left - and under Irish law this might be perfectly legal.

Cuddlesworth

Since your turning right, moving to the left hand side road gives you a better view of the closer lane. It might inconvenience you but its the much safer option in most circumstances for the other driver.

djimi

galwaycyclist wrote: »

With respect you seem to be confusing one-way streets with two lane roads.

Many one-way streets have no marked lanes at all. But you are arguing that the basic rule of the road - keep left - should not apply - because that is what suits you as a motorist. This is clearly dangerous. For one, because pedestrians crossing the street may not realise they have to look the wrong way on the wrong side of the road for motorists who choose not to obey the most basic rule of the road. Secondly it is dangerous because cyclists might be coming the other way on the correct side of the road - eg. the left - and under Irish law this might be perfectly legal.

There is only one lane; what are you keeping left compared to? Pedestrians are simply looking for cars approaching; the position of the car on the road should not come into it. Cyclists should not be coming the other way unless there is a marked contraflow cycle lane.

galwaycyclist

djimi wrote: »

There is only one lane; what are you keeping left compared to? Pedestrians are simply looking for cars approaching; the position of the car on the road should not come into it. Cyclists should not be coming the other way unless there is a marked contraflow cycle lane.

You keep left with respect to the direction of travel - that is the basic rule of the road.

Pedestrians naturally expect cars to keep left - so they don't expect to look the wrong way for cars when crossing the road. This is one of the reasons why one-way streets can increase pedestrian casualties.

There is no absolute requirement for a contraflow cycle lane. Under the 1998 Traffic Signs Regulations, where the entry to the one-way street is indicated by an upright sign, a road authority may attach a plate saying 'Except Cyclists — Ach Amháin Rothaithe' to show that the entry restriction does not apply to cyclists.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/si/0273.html

If there is a no-entry marking on the mouth of the road, then a short section of cycle track can provide an exemption for crossing the marking. The same effect can be achieved with a small traffic island and gap however. There is no need for a contraflow cycle lane for the length of the road, either legally or actually, in many situations where such exemptions are being provided.

So if using a one-way street you should arguably expect to meet cyclists coming the other way. Unless you are in a position to 2nd guess every local authority in the country.

djimi

galwaycyclist wrote: »

You keep left with respect to the direction of travel - that is the basic rule of the road.

Pedestrians naturally expect cars to keep left - so they don't expect to look the wrong way for cars when crossing the road. This is one of the reasons why one-way streets can increase pedestrian casualties.

What wrong way? Its a single lane road. The position of the car relative to the side of the road makes absolutely no difference to a pedestrian looking to cross; the traffic is going to be coming from one direction, the only difference being that it might be a foot or two closer to either side of the road.

galwaycyclist wrote: »

There is no absolute requirement for a contraflow cycle lane. Under the 1998 Traffic Signs Regulations, where the entry to the one-way street is indicated by an upright sign, a road authority may attach a plate saying 'Except Cyclists — Ach Amháin Rothaithe' to show that the entry restriction does not apply to cyclists.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/si/0273.html

If there is a no-entry marking on the mouth of the road, then a short section of cycle track can provide an exemption for crossing the marking. The same effect can be achieved with a small traffic island and gap however. There is no need for a contraflow cycle lane for the length of the road, either legally or actually, in many situations where such exemptions are being provided.

Apologies, I meant to include signage in that also. But the point still stands; unless there are markings/signs to say that cyclists can travel counter flow to the traffic then they must not travel the wrong way down a one way street.

galwaycyclist wrote: »

So if using a one-way street you should arguably expect to meet cyclists coming the other way. Unless you are in a position to 2nd guess every local authority in the country.

Wouldnt the road be marked as being one way except cyclists at either end? I dont think people have to second guess anything.

galwaycyclist

djimi wrote: »

What wrong way? Its a single lane road. The position of the car relative to the side of the road makes absolutely no difference to a pedestrian looking to cross; the traffic is going to be coming from one direction, the only difference being that it might be a foot or two closer to either side of the road.

The position of the car makes every difference, particularly in shopping streets. Pedestrians are acclimatised to making the crossing in two stages first to the middle and then accross the other side. Putting in one-wa streets can create the same issue as we face when crossing the road in Spain or France. Our natural tendency is to look the wrong way. Where the street is very narrow this may not be such and issue but where it is wider it very much is.

Apologies, I meant to include signage in that also. But the point still stands; unless there are markings/signs to say that cyclists can travel counter flow to the traffic then they must not travel the wrong way down a one way street.

Indeed they should not. However Irish local authorities are in the habit of putting in one-way street restrictions that simply ignored the fact that generations of cyclists were using the road in both directions for a particular reason. The classic example is where they make a road accessing a secondary school one-way and ignore the fact that the kids still have to get to school (or they are breaking the law). The classic example in Galway is Nuns Island where cyclists are theoretically expected to take a diversion of 800m (from memory) to go 100m. Teenagers being teenagers they will simply ignore such idiocy. Adult motorists need to take that into account.

Wouldnt the road be marked as being one way except cyclists at either end?

No not under the current regulations - (this is not an approval)

wil

djimi wrote: »

Its also legal for drivers in other European countries to drive on the hand side of the road, but I dont drive down a motorway expecting to see a rental car approaching me. A cyclist cycling the wrong way down a one way street has a death wish. Its impossible to position your car at every junction to compensate for such an idiot (it also possible that if you position your car to the right then a cyclist could try and turn down the road from the right hand side).

Once again another thread derails in to a car versus all inherently wrong cyclists nonsense.

I can show you several streets (single lanes, near schools) where drivers regularly, blatantly disregard multiple oneway or no entry signs and drive wrong way down one way streets. Whether this is through stupidity, pig ignorance or laziness you find out by the level of bad language you receive when challenged.
If I'm driving when meeting them, then reverse they will.

Drivers here are so afraid to politely challenge the behaviour of others that a lazy driving culture of anything is acceptable if you can get away with it has become the norm.

wil

dudara wrote: »

Possibly to give themselves a wider turn at the junction?

This would normally only be the case if they are driving a long vehicle, or if badly parked cars, or other obstructions/conditions make a right turn from the right lane abnormally difficult.

Drivers should take consideration of left turning vehicles behind them and not selfishly or lazily block them. Poor driving ability should be less acceptable an excuse as time goes on.

And yes I encounter it regularly.

LordSutch

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Since your turning right, moving to the left hand side road gives you a better view of the closer lane.
It might inconvenience you but its the much safer option in most circumstances for the other driver.

Inconvienience is an understatement, and I disagree with you 100%.

In my opinion if you are driving up a one way street & approach a tee junction with the intention of turning right, (then stay right) and let the trafic on the left turn left, instead of waiting for you to wait for a break in the traffic to turn right at the junction, not forgetting the bloody great vacant space on the right hand side of the road (where Mr right turn should be)!

Turning right, stay right.
Turning left, stay left.

Simples.