Investment Banking

LordHaughHaugh

Hi

I just graduated with a Bachelor of Civil Law last week and I want to get into investment banking. I'm good with numbers, I got a B1 in ordinary level Leaving Cert Maths but would of done Higher if I wasn't kicked out of class. I'm just wondering where is the best place to start looking and what positions ought I be looking for?

I'm willing to immigrate which I think is the best bet for this kind of job but which country? New Irish graduates are entitled to a one year work visa for the United States and I'm just wondering whether New York should be the best place to go to. I was there last summer and firms seem to advertise a lot of positions for new graduates but I'm not sure whether they would actually pay you for this position.

Any advice?

SBWife

Did you get a first in your degree?

LordHaughHaugh

SBWife wrote: »

Did you get a first in your degree?

No a 2.2

SBWife

TBH without a good degree you're unlikely to get a look in for IB jobs in either NYC or London.

LordHaughHaugh

SBWife wrote: »

TBH without a good degree you're unlikely to get a look in for IB jobs in either NYC or London.

Whats wrong with a 2.2?

SBWife

LordHaughHaugh wrote: »

Whats wrong with a 2.2?

It normally indicates a canditate who either isn't particularly bright or didn't apply themselves in university, neither are traits that are attractive to a potential employer. Most if not all IBs screen graduates initially based on whether or not they have a 2.1 without this it's highly unlikely anyone will even look at your CV.

LordHaughHaugh

SBWife wrote: »

It normally indicates a canditate who either isn't particularly bright or didn't apply themselves in university, neither are traits that are attractive to a potential employer. Most if not all IBs screen graduates initially based on whether or not they have a 2.1 without this it's highly unlikely anyone will even look at your CV.

I'd consider to be a bit harsh tbh. You know a 2.1 in law is not the equivalent to say a 2.1 in business. It's far more demanding than the average degree

SBWife

It doesn't matter it's a highly competitive area and a 2.2 is unlikely to cut it.

Bluefox21

Unfortunately, she is right. I am working with an IB and for graduate positions they won't take a second glance at a CV without a minimum 2:1. Also a B1 in ordinary level maths is not going to cut it for any credit/risk/trading role (realise there are exceptions to the rule here)

How serious are you about the career path? Let me tell you now that the hours are not pretty. I'm quiet at the moment but regularly work past 8pm (in before 8am as a minimum) and sometimes (end of quarter etc I have to come in at weekends - no overtime either :mad:). Work is very interesting and I really enjoy it (in London) but at the same time you want to be sure it is what you want to do!!!

IB is an incredibly broad area. Much, much, much bigger than you can imagine. We have a massive legal/KYC/AML team... is that what you are talking about? If not are you looking at Credit, Risk, Finance, Accounting, Sales/Trading etc.

You need to research it, find the area you want to work in (many areas are product specific) and do everything you can to become an expert in that area. Grad programmes aside your best option is a masters focusing on a niche area but even then it would prob need to be from a top tier university (depending on area) which you won't get into with a 2:2. Saying that there are many good masters that you would be able to do and which would really help your case. (I would also recommend taking the CFA)

All in all not very positive! But saying that, the best guy on my team dropped out of an Arts degree and worked on a building site for a couple of years. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Let me know if you have any specific questions as I realise I have been quite negative :P

LordHaughHaugh

Bluefox21 wrote: »

Unfortunately, she is right. I am working with an IB and for graduate positions they won't take a second glance at a CV without a minimum 2:1. Also a B1 in ordinary level maths is not going to cut it for any credit/risk/trading role (realise there are exceptions to the rule here)

How serious are you about the career path? Let me tell you now that the hours are not pretty. I'm quiet at the moment but regularly work past 8pm (in before 8am as a minimum) and sometimes (end of quarter etc I have to come in at weekends - no overtime either :mad:). Work is very interesting and I really enjoy it (in London) but at the same time you want to be sure it is what you want to do!!!

IB is an incredibly broad area. Much, much, much bigger than you can imagine. We have a massive legal/KYC/AML team... is that what you are talking about? If not are you looking at Credit, Risk, Finance, Accounting, Sales/Trading etc.

You need to research it, find the area you want to work in (many areas are product specific) and do everything you can to become an expert in that area. Grad programmes aside your best option is a masters focusing on a niche area but even then it would prob need to be from a top tier university (depending on area) which you won't get into with a 2:2. Saying that there are many good masters that you would be able to do and which would really help your case. (I would also recommend taking the CFA)

All in all not very positive! But saying that, the best guy on my team dropped out of an Arts degree and worked on a building site for a couple of years. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Let me know if you have any specific questions as I realise I have been quite negative :P

If you don't mind me asking, what did u study in college and how much do u get paid?

Bluefox21

I did B&L in UCD (with a particular focus on Finance modules).

Starting salaries will vary between positions and between banks. Where I am it will typically be in the region of £35K-£42k (for Graduates). London is very expensive though which must be taken into account when comparing to home.

Unfortunately (for me!), the bonus culture seems to be reigned in but if you are good enough can still be quite substantial. Again though, only a very small minority will receive the bonuses you read about in the papers and these will be the guys at the top who make the bank many times what they get in bonuses!

The money is good but you have to be good to get it and work for every penny. There is also not that much job security. If you are not bringing in revenue they will not blink before letting you go no matter how long you have been there.

Value Hunter

To be honest it seems like your only interested in IB because of the salary prospects, as opposed to having a passion for a career in the industry. Not to be too blunt about it but saying you would have done higher level maths if you hadn't been kicked out doesn't bode well for your professionalism, as does asking someone what salary they earn.

Its a hugely competitive industry, you'd be up against finance and economics graduates who have a passion for it, have studied specifically for this industry for at least 4 years and will most likely have a very high mathematical ability. Compare them with high results in their finance specific degrees and your 2.2 in law with ordinary level maths and i'm sorry to say I wouldn't have much optimism.

Also when your working 12 hours a day Monday - Friday and possibly weekends in a high pressure environment you'd want to have a passion and love for the job as opposed to just a desire for the salary.

x43r0

If you're really serious about this and determined to put the work in then your best best is through a graduate program

I came out of college with a 2.2 degree and a 2.2 masters and got into a grad program in London. I managed to divert the attention from my grades by having a lot of extra-curricular college activities and demonstrated self-study outside of academic life. If you can get yourself into the interview process then showing a well rounded personality goes a long way.

Saying that I did get in through the IT Grad program which I assume is much easier than the IB who would generally have preferred universities which they do 90% of their recruitment in (Oxford, Cambridge, King's, UCL, LSE). I did move into the finance area after a year in though in a roundabout way I eventually got into the IB area with a 2.2 so it's not impossible but a hell of a lot of work

LordHaughHaugh

Bluefox21 wrote: »

I did B&L in UCD (with a particular focus on Finance modules).

Starting salaries will vary between positions and between banks. Where I am it will typically be in the region of £35K-£42k (for Graduates). London is very expensive though which must be taken into account when comparing to home.

Unfortunately (for me!), the bonus culture seems to be reigned in but if you are good enough can still be quite substantial. Again though, only a very small minority will receive the bonuses you read about in the papers and these will be the guys at the top who make the bank many times what they get in bonuses!

The money is good but you have to be good to get it and work for every penny. There is also not that much job security. If you are not bringing in revenue they will not blink before letting you go no matter how long you have been there.

So do you think London is the best city to look for these positions?

SBWife

LordHaughHaugh wrote: »

So do you think London is the best city to look for these positions?

Unless you have a resident visa for the US it is your only option. No NYC Ibank will hire you based on a one year visa, given first year analysts are seen by most as more trouble then they are worth and its only in year two that they begin to produce anything worthwhile.

Have you done any internships or work experience in the area? Been on the board of the college investment club? Shown any interest in the area over your university career? Do you have family or other contacts in the business? Because given the quality of your degree you will really need to be bringing something else to the table in order to get a look in. I know when I was working on Wall Street (in investment research for one of the large firms) I wouldn't be passing along a CV of a 2.2 graduate unless there was a demonstrated interest in the business and most likely something else to set the candidate apart.

LordHaughHaugh

SBWife wrote: »

Unless you have a resident visa for the US it is your only option. No NYC Ibank will hire you based on a one year visa, given first year analysts are seen by most as more trouble then they are worth and its only in year two that they begin to produce anything worthwhile.

That's a good point, I never thought of that. What did you study in college if you don't mind me asking and how did you get that position?