Simple question about rules of the road

Conmaicne Mara

At least I thought it would be a simple question but this is the reaction I got in the forum I thought was most appropriate to the question:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056956654

May I ask a small bit of leeway from the motoring mods if this is an off topic question?

I was told from a young age not to cycle more than two abreast and would have thought large groups to be a no no.

What I would like to find out is do the rules of the road specifically address large groups of cyclists on the public road?

Keep any nonsense to another thread thanks.

Bandara

I'd be very interested in such a law too. I find my morning commute is jammed with cars and buses, preventing me from making progress.

Popular Hardback

Be aware that animals, horses and livestock have the right of way at all times

Guy:Incognito

Popular Hardback wrote: »

Be aware that animals, horses and livestock have the right of way at all times

On bikes?

Popular Hardback

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

On bikes?

I'm not sure, but not when loaded on trailers for transport etc.

Spook_ie

Jeez mate you were lucky to get away without an infaction for being a motorist

Anyways I answered it in the cycling forum but you can have the answer here to


http://www.tourdeconamara.com/event-faq/

EVENT SAFETY:

A sweep vehicle will be in operation at the end of each of the two routes.
Pre-event communication to event participants will clearly highlight the route and areas where roads may be busy.
The routes selected for the Tour de Conamara are generally quiet roads but you will encounter some main road junctions. Be please aware of traffic on all roads.
The Tour de Conamara is not a closed road event and you must adhere to the normal rules of the road.
Directional signs and marshals will be evident throughout the route.
All participants will be provided with an emergency contact numbers in the case of an emergency on the route. This is not a number for bike maintenance.
You are responsible for taking part in the event on a safe and suitable bike. Participants are responsible for their own bike maintenance and a very limited mechanical support system will be in place.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/si/0332.html

“Pedal cyclists


47. (1) A pedal cyclist shall not drive a pedal cycle on a roadway in such a manner as to result in more than 2 pedal cyclists driving abreast, save when overtaking other pedal cyclists, and then only if to do so will not endanger, inconvenience or obstruct other traffic or pedestrians.


(2) Pedal cyclists on a roadway shall cycle in single file when overtaking other traffic.

You should report any posts that you find as trolling/baiting/impolite etc. as per their forum charter

Spook_ie

Hammertime wrote: »

I'd be very interested in such a law too. I find my morning commute is jammed with cars and buses, preventing me from making progress.

You are commuting on/in what type of vehicle?

The Nutty M

Overtaking
10. (1) A driver shall not overtake, or attempt to overtake, if to do so would endanger, or cause inconvenience to, any other person.

(2) A driver shall not overtake, or attempt to overtake, unless the roadway ahead of the driver—

( a ) is free from approaching traffic, pedestrians and any obstruction, and
( b ) is sufficiently long and wide to permit the overtaking to be completed without danger or inconvenience to other traffic or pedestrians.

Pedal Cyclists
47. (1) A pedal cyclist shall not drive a pedal cycle on a roadway in such a manner as to result in more than two pedal cyclists driving abreast, save when overtaking other pedal cyclists, and then only if to do so will not endanger, inconvenience or obstruct other traffic or pedestrians.

(2) Pedal cyclists on a roadway shall cycle in single file when overtaking other traffic.


Both are the law though they seem to come into a grey area.Knock a cyclist down that was in a bunch with rule 47 (1) in mind and go in front of a judge and see where it get's you.
Vulnerable road users are exactly that,vulnerable. Err on the side of caution as a driver,get frustrated and you'll do stupid things.Do stupid things and cause accidents and see where the law stands.

mathepac

I was in Kilkenny today out by the old hospital at Kilkreene. There is a one way system across a narrow bridge controlled by traffic lights. I was stopped on red in a queue when two buckos on bikes (all the gear slitty sun glasses, hats, shorts, etc.) wove their way to the top of the queue. I thought this odd as they were going to be slower than all the other traffic from a standing start uphill and they seemed determined to inconvenience other road-users travelling in the same direction as them. Not a bit of it they sailed through on red, shouting abuse and making rude gestures as traffic approaching in the opposite direction, which had right of way, if they flashed lights or bleeped at them.

As usual there was no way of identifying them to report them.

Earlier of the Ring Road I encountered a group of 12/14 cyclists, travelling 3 abreast overtaking each other as if in a peloton.

If this irresponsible inconsiderate behaviour continues some of them will only be identifiable as the red spots on the road as they seem determined to bring about their own demises.

I also saw two Uk-registered BMWs make right turns without indicating; it seems to be a major electrical fault with them.

Jesus.

I fu*king hate cyclists.

ironclaw

I have to say, in the past 3 years I've seen a big increase in cyclists and their obnoxious behaviour. I'm not a big bad car man trying to troll and I would always consider cyclists but I believe the majority of cyclists (Especially the all the gear, no idea brigade) take it upon themselves to 'show it' to us in cars.

The best example, and I have it somewhere off the DVR, is a big group slowly pedalling around a roundabout (As in circling repetitively) All of which took grave offence when I entered and tried to exit (i.e. Had to use the horn such was the obstruction) Backed off pretty quick when I asked them to follow me to the Gardai station and we can play back the footage...

DVR's are the best weapons against cyclists.

mikehammer67

i'm a cyclist

but i wonder about this idea of cyclists bunching wide on the lane

hasn't there been a lot of accidents with oncoming traffic overtaking etc.

Popular Hardback

ironclaw wrote: »

I have to say, in the past 3 years I've seen a big increase in cyclists and their obnoxious behaviour. I'm not a big bad car man trying to troll and I would always consider cyclists but I believe the majority of cyclists (Especially the all the gear, no idea brigade) take it upon themselves to 'show it' to us in cars.

The best example, and I have it somewhere off the DVR, is a big group slowly pedalling around a roundabout (As in circling repetitively) All of which took grave offence when I entered and tried to exit (i.e. Had to use the horn such was the obstruction) Backed off pretty quick when I asked them to follow me to the Gardai station and we can play back the footage...

DVR's are the best weapons against cyclists.

Plenty of cyclists are motorists as well, and plenty of motorists can be equally obnoxious.

Spook_ie

Popular Hardback wrote: »

Plenty of cyclists are motorists as well, and plenty of motorists can be equally obnoxious.

Wonder if the obnoxious cyclists are the obnoxious drivers and vice versa?

Mycroft H

Jesus. wrote: »

I fu*king hate cyclists.

I fukcing hate ignorance

endacl

Popular Hardback wrote: »

Plenty of cyclists are motorists as well, and plenty of motorists can be equally obnoxious.

I post over on cycling fairly regularly. Wearing my motorist hat here.

Sometimes when I'm on the bike, people in cars can be real dicks. Most aren't. Sometimes when I drive, some cyclists can be real dicks. Most aren't. I do my best not to be a dick in either scenario. We'd all get along much better if people did their best not to be a dick.

Bear in mind, when you meet one, a dick on a bike, or a dick in a car, would be a dick even if they were sitting at home not being a dick in your vicinity.

Doesn't apply to sulkys. People who bring those yokes out on the road are dicks. All the time.

Unregistered.

ironclaw wrote: »

The best example, and I have it somewhere off the DVR, is a big group slowly pedalling around a roundabout (As in circling repetitively)

Would love to see if this is true.

AugustusMinimus

ironclaw wrote: »

The best example, and I have it somewhere off the DVR, is a big group slowly pedalling around a roundabout (As in circling repetitively) All of which took grave offence when I entered and tried to exit (i.e. Had to use the horn such was the obstruction) Backed off pretty quick when I asked them to follow me to the Gardai station and we can play back the footage...

DVR's are the best weapons against cyclists.

Please, please, please upload this to youtube.

endacl

ironclaw wrote: »

I have to say, in the past 3 years I've seen a big increase in cyclists and their obnoxious behaviour. I'm not a big bad car man trying to troll and I would always consider cyclists but I believe the majority of cyclists (Especially the all the gear, no idea brigade) take it upon themselves to 'show it' to us in cars.

The best example, and I have it somewhere off the DVR, is a big group slowly pedalling around a roundabout (As in circling repetitively) All of which took grave offence when I entered and tried to exit (i.e. Had to use the horn such was the obstruction) Backed off pretty quick when I asked them to follow me to the Gardai station and we can play back the footage...

DVR's are the best weapons against cyclists.

Something like this?

Critical mass event? I'm an avid cyclist, but if it was one of these dickhead conventions you met, I approve of your response.

Remember, they'd be dickheads in cars too. And on buses. And on foot.

zenno

Popular Hardback wrote: »

Plenty of cyclists are motorists as well, and plenty of motorists can be equally obnoxious.

So they should obey the rules of the road just like a motorist. Two abreast is a danger to all other vehicles on the road, as well as it is to the two abreast cyclists. Single line only unless the cycle lane accommodates space for two abreast.

Popular Hardback

zenno wrote: »

So they should obey the rules of the road just like a motorist. Two abreast is a danger to all other vehicles on the road, as well as it is to the two abreast cyclists. Single line only unless the cycle lane accommodates space for two abreast.

Many motorists don't obey the rules of the road either, it's not exclusive to cyclists by any means.

zenno

Popular Hardback wrote: »

Many motorists don't obey the rules of the road either, it's not exclusive to cyclists by any means.

I agree fully, but my point is that everyone, driver and cyclist should obey the rules and it would just make all our lives that much easier and safer.

Maybe i'm living in a land of make-believe but i would hope that both sides think of their safety on this matter and not be taking chances just to save a few seconds of their time. There's a lot of metal out there moving at speed and all it takes is for 1 second of lapse in concentration on both parties to cause a deadly accident. I see it every day from both motorist and cyclist taking chances just to save a few seconds from their time and almost getting crushed in the process.

endacl

zenno wrote: »

So they should obey the rules of the road just like a motorist. Two abreast is a danger to all other vehicles on the road, as well as it is to the two abreast cyclists. Single line only unless the cycle lane accommodates space for two abreast.

I hear what you're saying, and as a driver I've been the frustrated held-up one. As a cyclist, on the other hand, I have first hand experience of why it can be the safest way to ride defensively.

Look. We all share the road. Hold ups happen. Sometimes its cyclists. Sometimes its a granny in a Micra. Sometimes its a 'auto enthusiast' pulling donuts at the entrance of the estate you're trying to drive out of. Sh1t happens. That's life. We all use the road. Leave earlier and holdups won't matter.

zenno

Just a question to both cyclists and motorists...

Have you noticed or experienced a large increase in pedestrians using a phone and blindly walking straight into moving traffic including yourselves as cyclists ?

Everywhere i drive, whether it be in an urban area or the city i see people talking on their phones and they look oblivious to anything around them and they just walk straight out onto the road without looking at all, it's quite crazy to see this happening so often.

endacl

zenno wrote: »

Just a question to both cyclists and motorists...

Have you noticed or experienced a large increase in pedestrians using a phone and blindly walking straight into moving traffic including yourselves as cyclists ?

Everywhere i drive, whether it be in an urban area or the city i see people talking on their phones and they look oblivious to anything around them and they just walk straight out onto the road without looking at all, it's quite crazy to see this happening so often.

Yep. And in shopping centres, supermarkets, pubs...

Fact of life these days. Darwinism in action?

zenno

endacl wrote: »

Yep. And in shopping centres, supermarkets, pubs...

Fact of life these days. Darwinism in action?

Zombies they all are imo, why would a person not want to watch out for their well-being especially crossing the road. There's no excuse. Maybe they just don't care about their well-being and safety.

Unregistered.

zenno wrote: »

Two abreast is a danger to all other vehicles on the road, as well as it is to the two abreast cyclists.

How is it dangerous?

zenno

Unregistered. wrote: »

How is it dangerous?

I used to be a cyclist myself travelling the length of the east coast and it is dangerous with two abreast as i notice even today while driving, the two abreast are far too wide and sometimes swerving left and right while faster vehicles are trying to drive past on a slim road.

It's dangerous, simple as that and as i already said, if the cycle lane is not wide enough for two abreast then cycle in single file for one's safety.

Ronnie Beck

endacl wrote: »

I post over on cycling fairly regularly. Wearing my motorist hat here.

Sometimes when I'm on the bike, people in cars can be real dicks. Most aren't. Sometimes when I drive, some cyclists can be real dicks. Most aren't. I do my best not to be a dick in either scenario. We'd all get along much better if people did their best not to be a dick.

Bear in mind, when you meet one, a dick on a bike, or a dick in a car, would be a dick even if they were sitting at home not being a dick in your vicinity.

Doesn't apply to sulkys. People who bring those yokes out on the road are dicks. All the time.

The locals here spin around on them all the time. Never had any bother with them. Probably some of the better road users about. In fairness, youtube isn't really a broad representation of the traveling community so maybe you should heed your own advice.

On the other hand I'm on the road for a few hours every weekend and am regularly stuck behind a cycling hoard. I was stuck between a marathon and a cycle race in Clare today :mad:.

endacl

zenno wrote: »

I used to be a cyclist myself travelling the length of the east coast and it is dangerous with two abreast as i notice even today while driving, the two abreast are far too wide and sometimes swerving left and right while faster vehicles are trying to drive past on a slim road.

It's dangerous, simple as that and as i already said, if the cycle lane is not wide enough for two abreast then cycle in single file for one's safety.

Ah. You should have recognized that what you saw wasn't two-abreast cyclists. Based on your description, you saw two-abreast freds. A very different beast altogether...

No Pants

Unregistered. wrote: »

Would love to see if this is true.

Me too. I can't understand what the point would be. When I'm in a car, I want to get on and off the roundabout as quickly as possible. When I'm on the bike, doubly so.

endacl

Ronnie Beck wrote: »

The locals here spin around on them all the time. Never had any bother with them. Probably some of the better road users about. In fairness, youtube isn't really a broad representation of the traveling community so maybe you should heed your own advice.

On the other hand I'm on the road for a few hours every weekend and am regularly stuck behind a cycling hoard. I was stuck between a marathon and a cycle race in Clare today :mad:.

Between a Rás and a Long race, eh? Tough break...

zenno

endacl wrote: »

Ah. You should have recognized that what you saw wasn't two-abreast cyclists. Based on your description, you saw two-abreast freds. A very different beast altogether...

Freds ?

endacl

zenno wrote: »

Freds ?

Cut and paste, but accurate enough...:D

A Fred is more often somebody with higher quality and more expensive cycling equipment than his or her talent and commitment would warrant. For example, a stereotypical Fred by this definition would be an individual with little cycling experience who watches the highlights of a few Tour de France stages, then goes to a bike store and purchases a Trek carbon fiber Madone in Team Discovery colors, along with Team Discovery shorts and jersey. Thus outfitted with equipment virtually identical to that which Lance Armstrong used, far more expensive than that used by many high-standard racing cyclists, and more costly than many automobiles, the “Fred” then uses his bicycle merely to ride on a cycling path at 15 mph (24 km/h), something which even the most casual untrained cyclist can manage on an inexpensive hybrid bicycle. Some use “Fred” in a somewhat similar matter, but more synonymous with a roadie poseur. However, a Fred isn’t necessarily someone who intentionally tries to put forth an image of being better or more knowledgeable than they are. Rather, a Fred is an inexperienced or unskilled cyclist who gets some top high-end or copy-cat racing gear for any reason. Unlike most poseurs, a Fred may still ride lacking some fundamental piece of competitive roadie equipment or style.

zenno

Unregistered. wrote: »

If you can overtake a car safely, then surely you can overtake two cyclists?

Not if the road is slightly wider than this, and dealing with the cyclist on the outside making the road his own...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXVqejFvzvE

These must be Fred's.


FRED'S I never knew that, cheers.

Unregistered.

zenno wrote: »

I used to be a cyclist myself travelling the length of the east coast and it is dangerous with two abreast as i notice even today while driving, the two abreast are far too wide

If you can overtake a car, a lorry or a bus safely, then surely you can overtake two cyclists?

Unregistered.

zenno wrote: »

Not if the road is slightly wider than this, and dealing with the cyclist on the outside making the road his own...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXVqejFvzvE

I meant when you are driving!

endacl

Spook_ie

endacl wrote: »

~Only because most of the cyclists are on a different forum :P

mathepac

zenno wrote: »

Freds ?

Freds is wot you post in maite, innit?

ba_barabus

Am I the only person who doesn't encounter these kinda of cyclists when I drive/cycle?

endacl

Spook_ie wrote: »

~Only because most of the cyclists are on a different forum :P

This is part of our new outreach program. A cross border initiative, if you like.

AugustusMinimus

ba_barabus wrote: »

Am I the only person who doesn't encounter these kinda of cyclists when I drive/cycle?

I come across it occasionally.

IMO, there the same amount of jerks both driving and cycling. However, due to the speed differential between cars and bikes, aggression between the two is a lot more frequent than say between two cars.


The explosion in the last year or so of cyclists decked in full racing gear is incredible though. Why the hell is it after getting so popular ?

endacl

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The explosion in the last year or so of cyclists decked in full racing gear is incredible though. Why the hell is it after getting so popular ?

Try it! You'll see.

Spook_ie

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I come across it occasionally.

IMO, there the same amount of jerks both driving and cycling. However, due to the speed differential between cars and bikes, aggression between the two is a lot more frequent than say between two cars.


The explosion in the last year or so of cyclists decked in full racing gear is incredible though. Why the hell is it after getting so popular ?

Partially because the extra taxes you pay as a motorist are funding this

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/income_tax_credits_and_reliefs/cycle_to_work_scheme.html

As well as the cyclelanes they are no longer required to use

Spook_ie

endacl wrote: »

This is part of our new outreach program. A cross border initiative, if you like.

Shame that the posters in cycling aren't as welcoming when motorists post there....

ba_barabus

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Why the hell is it after getting so popular ?

Because Lidl started selling cheap gear