Two quick questions

Conmaicne Mara

Anyone know what's going on in Connemara today, hundreds and hundreds of cyclists passing through.

Second question, anyone know the law on cycling in large packs and effectively preventing motorists making any progress?

ednwireland

http://www.tourdeconamara.com/

No Pants

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Second question, anyone know the law on cycling in large packs and effectively preventing motorists making any progress?

I'd be very interested in such a law too. I find my morning commute is jammed with cars and buses, preventing me from making progress.

TinyExplosions

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Anyone know what's going on in Connemara today, hundreds and hundreds of cyclists passing through.

It's the Tour of Connemara.

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Second question, anyone know the law on cycling in large packs and effectively preventing motorists making any progress?

Yes.

Conmaicne Mara

No Pants wrote: »

I'd be very interested in such a law too. I find my morning commute is jammed with cars and buses, preventing me from making progress.

I'm sure someone can enlighten you, perhaps you should ask in the Motors forum.

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Yes.

Great, would you happen to have a link to it?

No Pants

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

I'm sure someone can enlighten you, perhaps you should ask in the Motors forum.

Huh? I ask the same question as you, but I have to ask it in a different forum?

Conmaicne Mara

No Pants wrote: »

Huh? I ask the same question as you, but I have to ask it in a different forum?

I asked a question about cycling in the cycling forum. You're asking questions about motor vehicles, which suggests the Motors forum be most appropriate, as one would presume specific knowledge would reside in specific fora.

No Pants

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

I asked a question about cycling in the cycling forum. You're asking questions about motor vehicles, which suggests the Motors forum be most appropriate, as one would presume specific knowledge would reside in specific fora.

I never said I was in a car.

endacl

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Anyone know what's going on in Connemara today, hundreds and hundreds of cyclists passing through.

Second question, anyone know the law on cycling in large packs and effectively preventing motorists making any progress?

I know. It's a shockin' holy disgrace. I mean, the roads are for cars dammit! Not for anybody else!

This topic may have been done. Again. And again. And again.... Do a search.

Conmaicne Mara

No Pants wrote: »

I never said I was in a car.

You were inquiring about cars and busses impeding your progress, or you're making a poor hand at attempting to bait me

endacl wrote: »

I know. It's a shockin' holy disgrace. I mean, the roads are for cars dammit! Not for anybody else!

This topic may have been done. Again. And again. And again.... Do a search.

There seem to be some passive aggressive posters here. I asked two simple genuine questions regarding cycling.

Conmaicne Mara

I think I will ask in Motors myself. Perhaps I will find someone who may act above voting age to answer my second question. Thanks for the answer to the first. Good job on putting people off cyclists to the others, you represent your sport really well.

endacl

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

You were inquiring about cars and busses impeding your progress, or you're making a poor hand at attempting to bait me



There seem to be some passive aggressive posters here. I asked two simple genuine questions regarding cycling.

I can see how it might appear passive aggressive. Apologies. ;-)

The tour de Connemara is an annual event, as is the question you asked. A lot of people use the roads on bikes, annoying those who use them in cars. both are entitled to be there, and they just have to get along.

These threads never go well.

endacl

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

I think I will ask in Motors myself. Perhaps I will find someone who may act above voting age to answer my second question. Thanks for the answer to the first. Good job on putting people off cyclists to the others, you represent your sport really well.

It's an annual question over there too. Maybe ask in 'Galway'?

Conmaicne Mara

endacl wrote: »

A lot of people use the roads on bikes, annoying those who use them in cars. both are entitled to be there, and they just have to get along.

I didn't ask that. I have no problem with cyclists using the road, I used to cycle myself recreationally before I hurt my knee.

I asked about rules of the road regarding cyclists in large packs blocking other road users. Simple genuine question which was met by the trash in posts above

No Pants

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

You were inquiring about cars and busses impeding your progress, or you're making a poor hand at attempting to bait me

I wouldn't say it was poor, I think I've done quite well. I'm on a bike in the situation I describe above.

Back to your original question. It's a public highway. As long as all parties have roadworthy vehicles (bikes or cars), lights if it's nighttime, plus whatever additional things they need (licence, tax, insurance, a bell for some bikes), then all can use it whenever they like. Motorways being the exception for bikes.

Darkglasses

Those posts above had more truth in them than you realise. Bikes are allowed in large numbers on the road just the same as cars are. No laws about it.

No Pants

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

I asked about rules of the road regarding cyclists in large packs blocking other road users. Simple genuine question which was met by the trash in posts above

Just to clarify, when you say blocking other road users, do you mean using both directional lanes?

Conmaicne Mara

No Pants wrote: »

It's a public highway. As long as all parties have roadworthy vehicles (bikes or cars), lights if it's nighttime, plus whatever additional things they need (licence, tax, insurance, a bell for some bikes), then all can use it whenever they like. Motorways being the exception for bikes.

Is there specifics addressing groups of cyclists? Or impeding other road users?

TonyStark

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Is there specifics addressing groups of cyclists? Or impeding other road users?

Are they stopped on the road?

Dermot Illogical

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Is there specifics addressing groups of cyclists? Or impeding other road users?

No. No more than there are laws preventing large groups of motorists doing the same. Think vintage car & tractor rallies. Or traffic jams in cities.

Darkglasses

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Is there specifics addressing groups of cyclists? Or impeding other road users?

Only about how many abreast they can cycle. Two, unless overtaking a pair of cyclists, when they may go to three. Otherwise no. Same as there is no law against 9 a.m. traffic jams.

No Pants

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Is there specifics addressing groups of cyclists? Or impeding other road users?

Cycling no more than two abreast unless a third cyclist is overtaking. Which isn't an easy thing to regulate on sight alone. Most large groups look like a mess, but upon closer inspection you might notice that they're mostly paired up. Besides, when you have one cyclist travelling one metre out from the verge/kerb and another travelling parallel with maybe another metre between them, you need to give at least another metre and a half to overtake. You're looking at a full, move to the other lane overtaking manoeuvre no matter what way you look at it.

Conmaicne Mara

Darkglasses wrote: »

Those posts above had more truth in them than you realise.

The issue I had with certain posts is the incredible lack of civility. I believe there's a general forum rule about that type of thing on boards.

No Pants wrote: »

Just to clarify, when you say blocking other road users, do you mean using both directional lanes?

Yes & no. That also happened, that both lanes had cyclists in them. I was "in the pack" for a few miles and saw it happen. I'm not asking an "event specific" question, it just happened that the event today prompted my question, I've seen the instances in the paragraph below many times.

But, my secondary question in the OP was more to do with slow moving large groups impeding the progress of other road users. For example, I was told when I was preparing for my driving that I must proceed with adequate speed during my test so as not to impede other road users or I would be failed.

TonyStark wrote: »

Are they stopped on the road?

Not that I saw.

Darkglasses wrote: »

Only about how many abreast they can cycle. Two, unless overtaking a pair of cyclists, when they may go to three.QUOTE]

There were many abreast, from two's to fours.

Spook_ie

From the event site

EVENT SAFETY:

A sweep vehicle will be in operation at the end of each of the two routes.
Pre-event communication to event participants will clearly highlight the route and areas where roads may be busy.
The routes selected for the Tour de Conamara are generally quiet roads but you will encounter some main road junctions. Be please aware of traffic on all roads.
The Tour de Conamara is not a closed road event and you must adhere to the normal rules of the road.
Directional signs and marshals will be evident throughout the route.
All participants will be provided with an emergency contact numbers in the case of an emergency on the route. This is not a number for bike maintenance.
You are responsible for taking part in the event on a safe and suitable bike. Participants are responsible for their own bike maintenance and a very limited mechanical support system will be in place.

The Nutty M

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

But, my secondary question in the OP was more to do with slow moving large groups impeding the progress of other road users. For example, I was told when I was preparing for my driving that I must proceed with adequate speed during my test so as not to impede other road users or I would be failed.

Are you seriously comparing a bicycle to a car in it's speed?

endacl

Treat a large bunch as a large vehicle. Same procedure as when passing say, a tractor pulling a trailer.

I think what leads to the perceived lack of civility is that we know that a similar question wouldn't be asked over in farming and forestry.

Conmaicne Mara

Ok, think of it another way. To get away from the motorist vs cyclist thing which I never intended to happen.

You have a slow moving car on an N road, I see this regular on the N59. Behind that car is another two or three cars, spaced so closely to the first as to make any car behind them unable to overtake. If the 2nd, 3rd, etc. car hasn't the gumption or ability to overtake then they should back off and allow a space for other cars to make that overtaking maneuver safely.

Now go back to a pack of cyclists, which may have many, many individuals making up the group. This can be difficult to overtake, and will certainly be much slower than a car can travel.

My question was more to do with impeding road users in a way I see as unnecessary rather than cyclist bashing. As the pack should, IMO, leave sufficient room for other road users to safely pass, as should the cars in the example above. That many slow moving road users present an obstacle to other road users.

To my mind, both scenarios are inconsiderate and potentially dangerous. I was asking whether the rules of the road specifically address cycling in this manner.

Conmaicne Mara

The Nutty M wrote: »

Are you seriously comparing a bicycle to a car in it's speed?

A bike? No. 10, 20, 30, or 40 bikes in a pack? Certainly. They represent a slow moving pack compared to the speed of a car or cars. A rolling roadblock in a way.

Darkglasses

Your question has been answered. Cyclists are fully within their rights to cycle in large groups, and will continue to do so. Ample warning is typically given to locals when an event is coming up.

TinyExplosions

Your questions were answered, a link was provided to the event that is on, and I do know the rules of the road concerning cyclists -you didn't ask for details of any rules, just if anyone knew them...

As has been said above, 2 abreast is fine, more shouldn't be allowed unless overtaking. There's no rules governing how many 'deep' a pack is, so it's perfectly legal for a 2 wide, 50 long group to be on the road, and they should be treated just like any other slower moving road user(s), ie tractors and trailers, a steam rally, etc etc etc.

Be careful, and overtake only when it's safe to do so, bearing in mind that the cyclists at the front of the pack may have better visibility than you do.

TinyExplosions

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Ok, think of it another way. To get away from the motorist vs cyclist thing which I never intended to happen.

You have a slow moving car on an N road, I see this regular on the N59. Behind that car is another two or three cars, spaced so closely to the first as to make any car behind them unable to overtake. If the 2nd, 3rd, etc. car hasn't the gumption or ability to overtake then they should back off and allow a space for other cars to make that overtaking maneuver safely.

That's courtesy though, rather than a law or the rules of the road. It's perfectly legal for 3 or 4 (or more) cars to drive slowly on a road in line.

Conmaicne Mara

Darkglasses wrote: »

Your question has been answered. Cyclists are fully within their rights to cycle in large groups, and will continue to do so. Ample warning is typically given to locals when an event is coming up.

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Your questions were answered, a link was provided to the event that is on, and I do know the rules of the road concerning cyclists -you didn't ask for details of any rules, just if anyone knew them...

As has been said above, 2 abreast is fine, more shouldn't be allowed unless overtaking. There's no rules governing how many 'deep' a pack is, so it's perfectly legal for a 2 wide, 50 long group to be on the road, and they should be treated just like any other slower moving road user(s), ie tractors and trailers, a steam rally, etc etc etc.

Be careful, and overtake only when it's safe to do so, bearing in mind that the cyclists at the front of the pack may have better visibility than you do.

And wouldn't this have been a much nicer and shorter thread had I been met with a little courtesy in the start

TinyExplosions

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

And wouldn't this have been a much nicer and shorter thread had I been met with a little courtesy in the start

You were, both your questions were answered by me in the third post! You then clarified that you wanted more detail, and what most likely happened was that it came across as the sort of 'leading question' that happens here all the time. Conversations go like:

OP: "so, anyone know the rules for cycling in a group"
TE: "2 abreast etc etc (as above)"
OP: "AH, so the guys I saw today 4 wide are breaking the law -I can ram them off the road then etc etc etc"

So people are understandably a little bristly with these sorts of topics (apologies if your question was purely innocent, everyone can get tarred with the 'angry motorists' brush)

Conmaicne Mara

Beasty wrote: »

There is a clue in the you couched this - check the rules of the road

There is nothing to prevent large groups of cyclists forming. The law requires them to ride no more than 2 abreast except when overtaking when 3 abreast is permitted.

I did a search, and I Googled. I asked in case I missed something.

Conmaicne Mara

TinyExplosions wrote: »

You were, both your questions were answered by me in the third post! You then clarified that you wanted more detail, and what most likely happened was that it came across as the sort of 'leading question' that happens here all the time. Conversations go like:

OP: "so, anyone know the rules for cycling in a group"
TE: "2 abreast etc etc (as above)"
OP: "AH, so the guys I saw today 4 wide are breaking the law -I can ram them off the road then etc etc etc"

So people are understandably a little bristly with these sorts of topics (apologies if your question was purely innocent, everyone can get tarred with the 'angry motorists' brush)

Excuse me a moment, I asked two genuine and civil questions in a forum I though appropriate to those questions.

I was met with answers because of what other did or didn't do, or because of peoples prejudices. I sought nor deserved neither, thanks.

I think this should be closed now.

Spook_ie

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

I'm sure someone can enlighten you, perhaps you should ask in the Motors forum.




Great, would you happen to have a link to it?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/si/0332.html

Section 47 1 and 2

“Pedal cyclists


47. (1) A pedal cyclist shall not drive a pedal cycle on a roadway in such a manner as to result in more than 2 pedal cyclists driving abreast, save when overtaking other pedal cyclists, and then only if to do so will not endanger, inconvenience or obstruct other traffic or pedestrians.


(2) Pedal cyclists on a roadway shall cycle in single file when overtaking other traffic.

ford2600

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Excuse me a moment, I asked two genuine and civil questions in a forum I though appropriate to those questions.

I was met with answers because of what other did or didn't do, or because of peoples prejudices. I sought nor deserved neither, thanks.

I think this should be closed now.

I've read your posts in farming forum and find you an excellent poster.

The questions you asked, have been asked here many times. It never goes well.


As an exercise, if you like, ask a similar question in farming forum about a silage crew moving in convoy and see how that goes?

Beasty

OK guys, let's be courteous to each other. If a non-regular comes into the forum asking a question that most forum regulars know the answer to then it's simple enough to point them in the direction of the answer and move on.

Thanks

Beasty

TonyStark

ford2600 wrote: »

I've read your posts in farming forum and find you an excellent poster.

The questions you asked, have been asked here many times. It never goes well.


As an exercise, if you like, ask a similar question in farming forum about a silage crew moving in convoy and see how that goes?

Hopefully all of them are taxed as well! :-)

Beasty

And we're done ...