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Unpaid Internship Scandals

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  • 24-05-2013 2:42pm
    #1
    NewsMeQuick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 643 ✭✭✭


    Why is it that unpaid internships are legal here?

    There are obvious cultural differences at play here, consider this:
    http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/bus/3825059233.html

    http://www.internassociation.ca/what-is-the-law/

    I keep coming across this; the Canadian government is very strict in it's policy of banning unpaid internships which they say exploit people.

    How the fk is a graduate supposed to get on the career ladder in this country? Never work (because they ALL want experience) or be totally abused and exploited?

    I just sent this to the minister, I may receive a bull** answer but I'm happy to do it. I have had decent responses from different ministers in the past.

    SENT TO MINISTER
    I have a question for the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation regarding the legality of unpaid internships in Ireland.

    I'm a recent graduate and I'm unemployed. I estimate that the government contributed at least €25,000 to my third level education. After trying to get a job for one year, I have decided to emigrate. I have just found that the Canadian government is fiercly against unpaid internships and has classed them as illegal. Any job site in Ireland that you care to search is filled with unpaid internships. A very signficant proportion of the Job Bridge positions that I read have a long list of 'responsibilities' not 'training or experience' for the candidate.

    Why is it that the State of Ireland permits the exploitation of people? Private unpaid internships are one thing, but the Job Bridge positions that have no interest in training candidates is the facilitating of exploitation with the association of the Department of Social Welfare. I would greatly appreciate a response on this.

    Yours Sincerely,

    -
    Private Citizen
    Tagged:


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    #2
    Robbie12
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Robbie12


    Think about it. If someone has a business, They can get tax cuts and a slave at the same time?

    The slave has gone to college and has got relevant degree?

    They dont have to keep them on after?

    They dont have to provide any training?

    $$$

    Happy days!


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    #3
    NewsMeQuick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 643 ✭✭✭NewsMeQuick


    But why would the government accept it? The job bridge positions must stipulate training however, they are obligated to do so.They really have no ethical center. It's quite a cultural/political difference to see it illegal in other countries, while legal here. They are really deluded if they think we'll come back in 5 years...


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    #4
    Piriz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Piriz


    well done OP, good to see people being proactive about this...good discovery on the Canadian legal stand point on this


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    #5
    Robbie12
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Robbie12


    NewsMeQuick wrote: »
    But why would the government accept it? The job bridge positions must stipulate training however, they are obligated to do so.They really have no ethical center. It's quite a cultural/political difference to see it illegal in other countries, while legal here. They are really deluded if they think we'll come back in 5 years...

    Obligated but not mandatory? Topaz, supervalue etc put 'internships' up? what training am I going to recieve there? Even admin/data entry jobs what training will they provide? Its just on the job experience for 6-9 months.

    The government dont accept it, they created it! They mustve seen it from the view point of it getting people some experience in relevant fields. I find that some of the internships look like they give you great experience and will certainly look well on the CV but its still a form of slavery IMO.

    I totally agree with you though and I'll be going also. Its still more attractive to leave even if your guaranteed a job here which is pathetic. Here you start on circa 20K and pay extremely high taxes. Just go as far as the UK and you can start on circa 28K and pay less tax and the expense of living is comparable to Dublin.


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    #6
    Idjit
    Registered Users Posts: 853 ✭✭✭Idjit


    I'm doing an unpaid internship this year because it is the only thing I can get that is relevant to my degree and I'm too restless to sit idle or work in a job that does not relate to my qualifications.

    I'm extremely unhappy that it has come to this because I have to survive on savings in order to do it since it's full-time and not a part of the Jobbridge or government internships.


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    #7
    sock puppet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    Robbie12 wrote: »
    I totally agree with you though and I'll be going also. Its still more attractive to leave even if your guaranteed a job here which is pathetic. Here you start on circa 20K and pay extremely high taxes. Just go as far as the UK and you can start on circa 28K and pay less tax and the expense of living is comparable to Dublin.

    In what field? 28K is quite high for outside London, and in most graduate roles I've looked up pay in Dublin is similar to the rest of the UK. In London the cost of living is much higher. Taxes in the UK for low to middle incomes are higher too as they have a less generous tax free allowance rather than tax credits.


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    #8
    Robbie12
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Robbie12


    sock puppet wrote: »
    In what field? 28K is quite high for outside London, and in most graduate roles I've looked up pay in Dublin is similar to the rest of the UK. In London the cost of living is much higher. Taxes in the UK for low to middle incomes are higher too as they have a less generous tax free allowance rather than tax credits.



    Thats 28K EUR Im talking about just to be clear and in Engineering plus I dont know what field your in but any grad roles I look up in Ireland dont give a salary whereas most of them in the UK do, they ask you what you expect in Ireland and those that do state an amount usually max at 22k Eur from what I've seen! In London I see that some jobs are offering 28k GBP so like 32k EUR. Outside of london you can still get ranges that max out at 26k e.g. theyl say 22k - 26k GBP.

    I didnt realise that about the tax, I just compared earning 28k eur here to 28k eur there and you come out with about 1k more after tax here! There is a disparity in favour of the UK though as the numbers increase.


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    #9
    NewsMeQuick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 643 ✭✭✭NewsMeQuick


    Robbie12 wrote: »
    ...

    The government dont accept it, they created it! They mustve seen it from the view point of it getting people some experience in relevant fields. I find that some of the internships look like they give you great experience and will certainly look well on the CV but its still a form of slavery IMO.

    I totally agree with you though and I'll be going also. Its still more attractive to leave even if your guaranteed a job here which is pathetic. Here you start on circa 20K and pay extremely high taxes. Just go as far as the UK and you can start on circa 28K and pay less tax and the expense of living is comparable to Dublin.

    I agree about the prospects even if you do get a job here. A few people from college are working in big companies for 20k and are doing 2-3 people's jobs. At that rate, I'd rather start learning my Canadian history for the citizenship down the line! Very true about the UK, I keep reading average starting salary is 25k Sterling, so more in Euro and less taxes etc.

    You're going too? Where is on your list?

    To everyone, since there is interest, I should update on what's happened. I got a response from the secretary to the jobs minister, who ask requested the social minister to respond to me directly. I am not thrilled that it was passed to the social minister, there is remit within the jobs dept. The secretary for the social minister (JB) has requested my details in order to send a written response. A singular, written response, as far as I understand it, is a one-way conversation. I have to be honest and say that for once in my life I'm not interested in that response. An email or call would have been (in the ideal situation) better, that's a two-way conversation. That way, I could fire a few points and see the response. A simple letter I think would just be some BS about how well the Job Bridge programme is doing and that people do benefit etc. What do you all think?


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    #10
    NewsMeQuick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 643 ✭✭✭NewsMeQuick


    Jade182 wrote: »
    I'm doing an unpaid internship this year because it is the only thing I can get that is relevant to my degree and I'm too restless to sit idle or work in a job that does not relate to my qualifications.

    I'm extremely unhappy that it has come to this because I have to survive on savings in order to do it since it's full-time and not a part of the Jobbridge or government internships.

    My heart goes out to you. It's really difficult to navigate the economy here of the past few years and it's difficult for all of us to 'make the right decision'. I would perhaps continue to apply for full-time positions, while interning, you could impress a company by your motivation and so on. While working for free, it really can only get better.


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    #11
    sock puppet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    Robbie12 wrote: »
    Thats 28K EUR Im talking about just to be clear and in Engineering plus I dont know what field your in but any grad roles I look up in Ireland dont give a salary whereas most of them in the UK do, they ask you what you expect in Ireland and those that do state an amount usually max at 22k Eur from what I've seen! In London I see that some jobs are offering 28k GBP so like 32k EUR. Outside of london you can still get ranges that max out at 26k e.g. theyl say 22k - 26k GBP.

    I didnt realise that about the tax, I just compared earning 28k eur here to 28k eur there and you come out with about 1k more after tax here! There is a disparity in favour of the UK though as the numbers increase.

    Ah right, didn't realise you were comparing all in euro.

    I was looking at a few different areas really: consulting, IT, and then also anything numerical such as actuarial. I suppose it was a bit different for me as the pay for most of the companies I applied to in Ireland was widely known. I'm starting a role in Dublin and having checked there would earn around one to two thousand more in the UK. To be honest I would have liked to have moved to London as it's a great city but I'm happy enough with the role I've been offered.


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    #12
    Idjit
    Registered Users Posts: 853 ✭✭✭Idjit


    NewsMeQuick wrote: »
    My heart goes out to you. It's really difficult to navigate the economy here of the past few years and it's difficult for all of us to 'make the right decision'. I would perhaps continue to apply for full-time positions, while interning, you could impress a company by your motivation and so on. While working for free, it really can only get better.

    That's exactly my plan for the moment. It's frustrating, however, because people who are in my graduating class are jumping straight on the dole and partying it up this year and somewhere down the line will probably be able to apply to a jobsbridge programme that teaches them the same skills my internship teaches me, and they will get money for doing it. Not a lot, but I am getting literally zero monetary award at the moment.

    It's a sad state this country is in, but I get homesick for my family too much to leave.


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    #13
    Mylow
    Registered Users Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Mylow


    Robbie12 wrote: »
    Thats 28K EUR Im talking about just to be clear and in Engineering plus I dont know what field your in but any grad roles I look up in Ireland dont give a salary whereas most of them in the UK do, they ask you what you expect in Ireland and those that do state an amount usually max at 22k Eur from what I've seen! In London I see that some jobs are offering 28k GBP so like 32k EUR. Outside of london you can still get ranges that max out at 26k e.g. theyl say 22k - 26k GBP.

    I didnt realise that about the tax, I just compared earning 28k eur here to 28k eur there and you come out with about 1k more after tax here! There is a disparity in favour of the UK though as the numbers increase.

    My daughter is just starting internship in London, I was surprised at how high salary levels seemed. But then cost of accommodation in London is scarily high.

    Nothing will ever change in this country when it comes to Intership/Job Bridge etc.


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