Bedsits and Crazy Notions

LowKeyReturn

With the new legislation many bedsits are now illegal. However it's not illegal to share a house of almost any standard. There are a fair few gorgeous old terraced houses for sale in X number of units (okay area are pretty rough). Does anyone know what the story would be in buying one, living in it, say on one floor, and renting the rooms out?

Kosseegan

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

With the new legislation many bedsits are now illegal. However it's not illegal to share a house of almost any standard. There are a fair few gorgeous old terraced houses for sale in X number of units (okay area are pretty rough). Does anyone know what the story would be in buying one, living in it, say on one floor, and renting the rooms out?

I know a man who tried it on in the context of planning permission. It did not work out. Once the units are self contained with their own kitchens they are deemed to be distinct dwellings. They must meet all standards. The owner will be liable for capital gains when the building is sold.
That is why the georgeous old houses on the market are cheap. In many cases the units can't be made comply with the new standards and they have to be reverted to a single dwelling. Most are too big and expensive to maintain and have lost their gardens and so are not suitable for families.

LowKeyReturn

Many Thanks Kosseegan - I didn't think it was a goer but thought it might be worth an ask!

Marcusm

If you bought (say) a 2 story over garden level, you could make a planning app to convert from bedsits into 2 flats - the upper 2 stories and the garden level separated. You could then rent out the upper floors for communal living, such as students or young pros on a come/go basis, ie each have bedroom and access to shared kitchen/living and bathrooms. You could then live in garden level. There are lots of theoretically suitable properties for sale.

Kosseegan

Marcusm wrote: »

If you bought (say) a 2 story over garden level, you could make a planning app to convert from bedsits into 2 flats - the upper 2 stories and the garden level separated. You could then rent out the upper floors for communal living, such as students or young pros on a come/go basis, ie each have bedroom and access to shared kitchen/living and bathrooms. You could then live in garden level. There are lots of theoretically suitable properties for sale.

It is most unlikely that it would be financially viable. The eventual property would be in 2 units which would make it worth less than a single dwelling.
In many cases these buildings have protected status and the entire renovation has to be supervised by conservation architects. This is extremely expensive and the work would be almost irreversible. Who would want to live in a basement with tenants of a shared house overhead anyway. I think the o/p should forget his crazy notions and find some other way of meeting his housing needs.

Marcusm

Kosseegan wrote: »

It is most unlikely that it would be financially viable. The eventual property would be in 2 units which would make it worth less than a single dwelling.
In many cases these buildings have protected status and the entire renovation has to be supervised by conservation architects. This is extremely expensive and the work would be almost irreversible. Who would want to live in a basement with tenants of a shared house overhead anyway. I think the o/p should forget his crazy notions and find some other way of meeting his housing needs.

Whether it's worth less than a single dwelling will depend on the three key important factors of house prices; location, location, location.

The property I'm thinking of was int he recent Alsop auction; a three story red brick at the part end of the NCR. Should be beautiful but has all the bad factors going for it. Was 3 units on the pre '63 declaration but had been converted, without planning permission, to 9 bedsits in the 1980s. It was one of the houses which was inspected by DCC and issued with remediation notices because it fell foul of the new regs. Was sold for approx €250k IIRC. Conservation etc will have been less of an issue if all you planned on doing was removing the locks from the internal doors and locking the ones between the three units. Little in t he way of investmnet, potentially. When that area finally improves and surely it must once O'Devaney etc is eradicated, you have beautiful housing stock and direct access to the largest urban park in Europe.

Not one for Procrasta/GCD/LKR I suspect!

liffeylite

I wonder what kind of affect this will have on the number of available units to rent. for instance, in this case, assuming all 9 bedsits are rented out, if the house reverts to a singe owner/family- there are 9 people looking for a new property. magnify this across all of the unfit bedsits which are part of a large house and you must have a flood to the market of people looking to either share houses or rent singe dwellings.

could prove problematic in Dublin in particular. there already seems to be a shortage and the rents are certainly out of kilter with house prices. this law looks like it will only increase the property shortage

Jo King

Marcusm wrote: »

Whether it's worth less than a single dwelling will depend on the three key important factors of house prices; location, location, location.

The property I'm thinking of was int he recent Alsop auction; a three story red brick at the part end of the NCR. Should be beautiful but has all the bad factors going for it. Was 3 units on the pre '63 declaration but had been converted, without planning permission, to 9 bedsits in the 1980s. It was one of the houses which was inspected by DCC and issued with remediation notices because it fell foul of the new regs. Was sold for approx €250k IIRC. Conservation etc will have been less of an issue if all you planned on doing was removing the locks from the internal doors and locking the ones between the three units. Little in t he way of investmnet, potentially. When that area finally improves and surely it must once O'Devaney etc is eradicated, you have beautiful housing stock and direct access to the largest urban park in Europe.

Not one for Procrasta/GCD/LKR I suspect!

The pre 63 is gone once it has been altered. In order to avail of pre 63 the use must have been continuous since 1st October 1964.

A planning application to do any work will be required as that house is a protected structure.

There is no way that a planning application for the removal of 6 kitchens and removing locks will succeed. There will be numerous conditions attached to any planning permission and the work will have to be supervised by a conservation architect. It would be extremely foolish to convert it to two units, even if this is allowed, which I doubt, as this will have much less appeal than a single dwelling on a resale.
For the cost of the acquisition and the refurbishing one could but three two bed apartments in purpose built blocks in the Dublin 7 area.

hfallada

There a house for sale at the canal in rathmines thats a 2/3 storey over basement with planning for 3/4 apartments. I guess one per floor. Op would you not consider doing that.

LowKeyReturn

hfallada wrote: »

There a house for sale at the canal in rathmines thats a 2/3 storey over basement with planning for 3/4 apartments. I guess one per floor. Op would you not consider doing that.

I was actually looking to convert something back from apartments / bedsits into one house, probably leaving the basement as an apartment. Having been to have a look at Buckingham Street I won't be picking there!

If the owner of Joyce house on Ushers Island is on boards PM me! (That would be my ideal place)

Pawwed Rig

There is currently a Revenue incentive scheme operating on Georgian houses in Waterford and another area that I can't remember (Limerick or Cork I think). Depending on the sucess of the scheme it may be extended so it may be worth holding off on this for a year or 2.