Entering dairy farming

jayk1

looking for some feedback on dairy farming vs suckler/tillage farming.
A few of people i done my green cert with have gotten into milk and havn't looked back, i always hear the milk cheque is great but, is there ppl here not happy with the move?

Very interested in getting into it myself, home place was in dairy bout 10 yrs ago, roadways, paddocks, cubicles all in place still, only cost the machine itself n bulk tank etc, obviously sell 70+ sucklers for dairy cows.

The future for dairy is being hyped up to be great but, post 2015 price going back n barely above cost of production is a big concern to producers, as you would think the more milk flowing in the country the less of a demand there will be so price will be hit if a deal is not struck.

anyway hopefully hear back from people in sucklers and dairy, great to hear from some new entrants also. cheers

Mulumpy

jayk1 wrote: »

looking for some feedback on dairy farming vs suckler/tillage farming.
A few of people i done my green cert with have gotten into milk and havn't looked back, i always hear the milk cheque is great but, is there ppl here not happy with the move?

Very interested in getting into it myself, home place was in dairy bout 10 yrs ago, roadways, paddocks, cubicles all in place still, only cost the machine itself n bulk tank etc, obviously sell 70+ sucklers for dairy cows.

The future for dairy is being hyped up to be great but, post 2015 price going back n barely above cost of production is a big concern to producers, as you would think the more milk flowing in the country the less of a demand there will be so price will be hit if a deal is not struck.

anyway hopefully hear back from people in sucklers and dairy, great to hear from some new entrants also. cheers

If ya think ya have the head to deal with brutal irish weather, rising costs, long hours, crazy amounts of red tape and an endless list of diseases then go for it. Can be rewarding the very rare year. Think too many getting in that are gonna regret it in few years.

delaval

Mulumpy wrote: »

If ya think ya have the head to deal with brutal irish weather, rising costs, long hours, crazy amounts of red tape and an endless list of diseases then go for it. Can be rewarding the very rare year. Think too many getting in that are gonna regret it in few years.

Are you a dairy farmer an if so why?
What you've described is common to all business.
You should elaborate, this person is thinkin of getting into dairy and is just what the industry needs.

darragh_haven

jayk1 wrote: »

looking for some feedback on dairy farming vs suckler/tillage farming.
A few of people i done my green cert with have gotten into milk and havn't looked back, i always hear the milk cheque is great but, is there ppl here not happy with the move?

Very interested in getting into it myself, home place was in dairy bout 10 yrs ago, roadways, paddocks, cubicles all in place still, only cost the machine itself n bulk tank etc, obviously sell 70+ sucklers for dairy cows.

The future for dairy is being hyped up to be great but, post 2015 price going back n barely above cost of production is a big concern to producers, as you would think the more milk flowing in the country the less of a demand there will be so price will be hit if a deal is not struck.

anyway hopefully hear back from people in sucklers and dairy, great to hear from some new entrants also. cheers

There are few lads on here that are on here that are making a right go at milking cows, and a few of them started with nothing, had to buy land and a lot more with it. So there is money to be made in it. But you have to have a dedication and not treat it as your job.
My problem with everyone saying that the milk cheque is mighty, it that for everyone you hear doing well, there could be 2 just breaking even or going through the motions.

Timmaay

Sounds as if you are fairly well setup to get back into dairying without spending too much money at all. In terms of the parlour/tank, there is a grant available which covers 40% of the cost, this needs to be applied for by the end of this year though! 2nd hand parlours can be got for very cheap also, good few lads throwing out the likes of an 8unit parlour which would milk 80/100cows comfortable. Darikool seems to be the best value when it comes to bulk tanks, several people on here who have recommend them.

In terms of stock, buying in heifer calves, and raring them yourself is a decent way of starting out, quite a few for sale for low money at the minute, with farmers under serious money problems letting on stock.

The only thing I would say to make sure ya do before you commit to dairying, is go milk for someone for the likes of a month or so now if you can, and make sure you are comfortable with the lifestyle change! Once you are setup well, the hours shouldn't be much worse than with most other lifestock farms, but having to milk, twice a day, every single day does not suit everybody!

freedominacup

Timmaay wrote: »

Sounds as if you are fairly well setup to get back into dairying without spending too much money at all. In terms of the parlour/tank, there is a grant available which covers 40% of the cost, this needs to be applied for by the end of this year though! 2nd hand parlours can be got for very cheap also, good few lads throwing out the likes of an 8unit parlour which would milk 80/100cows comfortable. Darikool seems to be the best value when it comes to bulk tanks, several people on here who have recommend them.

In terms of stock, buying in heifer calves, and raring them yourself is a decent way of starting out, quite a few for sale for low money at the minute, with farmers under serious money problems letting on stock.

The only thing I would say to make sure ya do before you commit to dairying, is go milk for someone for the likes of a month or so now if you can, and make sure you are comfortable with the lifestyle change! Once you are setup well, the hours shouldn't be much worse than with most other lifestock farms, but having to milk, twice a day, every single day does not suit everybody!

I'd agree with most of what Timmay said but going milking for someone for a month at this time of the year would create a false impression. I was just thinking how handy dairying is at this time of the year the other evening as the girls sashayed out of the yard with the sun on their backs after a milking that was done as fast as possible with no stress, no s**t cows and men happy. Feb it ain't. Get a job milking in Feb and stick with the guy you're working for while he's up every day. That'll find out how well the job suits you.

I would disagree with whoever said not to treat it as a job also. You have to treat it as a job as much as possible. The first year or two will be murder with a whole host of costs not properly accounted for no matter who you get to do your costings and you will have losses. There won't be much time for anything else then but after that you need to set a start time and finish time and work to them as much as possible otherwise in common with most females cows can be demanding and you will find jayk is in the yard far too much.

Mulumpy

delaval wrote: »

Are you a dairy farmer an if so why?
What you've described is common to all business.
You should elaborate, this person is thinkin of getting into dairy and is just what the industry needs.

I didn't mean to make farming sound completely negative. I just know too many guys getting in with rose tinted glasses on. If it was any other business lads would have pulled the plug long ago. Its an expensive job to get into and very difficult to get out of. Dairy cows become like family and you get very attached to them.

delaval

Mulumpy wrote: »

I didn't mean to make farming sound completely negative. I just know too many guys getting in with rose tinted glasses on. If it was any other business lads would have pulled the plug long ago. Its an expensive job to get into and very difficult to get out of. Dairy cows become like family and you get very attached to them.

I do agree didn't mean to cut the nose off you. I feel really good when young fellows want to get into dairy as we need them the rest of us are getting on a bit. Fresh blood badly needed.

I do not love cows but love the business and the challenge. I actually think your business mind gets clouded if you love your cows too much!!!

If you are too fond of them you start making decisions based on compassion for the animal, typically too much EXTRA feed too much capital in machines and buildings. Before anyone eats me animals must be properly cared for to get a return.

I would suggest that if land is poor not to consider dairy as it will break your spirit and you financially. You must know the limits and the strengths of both you and your farm to know your correct SR.

Despite having no Gra for cows it's a really rewarding and often challenging career that can provide a good standard of living if you work smart and mind you money.

Tim is correct a spell on a busy dairy farm where SR is high and grass/financial measuring is practiced would be of enormous benefit to any one thinking of starting

delaval

People will shove a type of cow down you neck, it's not that n.b. Be sure they are fertile and get as much grass as possible into them. If all calving is not over in 12 weeks get rid of stragglers nothing makes you more fed up than calving for 4-5 months

farmerjack

New entrant dairy farmer here, it takes a massive adjustment but ultimately for me it has been the right move, however DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE CHALLENGE of setting up a new enterprise. Once I decided to enter dairying it took two years to get up and running so my advice to you is to plan, plan and plan

jayk1

thanks for all the replies lads.

I have done a wrk placement on busy dairy/suckler farm and like the routine of milking, thats not to say if i was doing it for the next 40 yrs i wouldnt get fed up of it but thats a risk everyone takes i guess.

I have done endless reading and research on the subject, so now time to start acting on it
i will firstly do an income comparison with my teagasc advisor between dairy and sucklers to get an idea of the differences.

as for cow types and all that, if i do make a go of it, i will put all the sucklers in-calf to dairy breeds( maybe try out the new sexed semen) and then when weaned, sell off the cows for dairy cows.

spring calving for the first while then think about winter milk when i'm set up and comfortable.

was going to apply for the new entrant scheme this year but with 7th june the closing date too late to get business plan and all done and submitted??

get geared up to go post 2015 is the plan then which gives me time

kowtow

delaval wrote: »

I feel really good when young fellows want to get into dairy as we need them the rest of us are getting on a bit. Fresh blood badly needed.

And at what age would you set the upper limit for "young fellow"..

blue5000

Does anyone know how many new entrants to dairying there actually are in the country?

freedominacup

blue5000 wrote: »

Does anyone know how many new entrants to dairying there actually are in the country?

200 approx have gotten free quota.

Timmaay

http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2013/1921/TodaysFarm_MayJune2013.pdf will be 400 by the end of the yr supposely

Mulumpy

Fresh blood is badly needed in dairying and seens to be a lot of enthusiastic guys coming through. OP seems to have a great starting point and his head screwed on so best of luck. Wouldn't like to be starting from scratch nowadays though I think the Greenfield project proves that.

Tipp Man

jayk1 wrote: »

as for cow types and all that, if i do make a go of it, i will put all the sucklers in-calf to dairy breeds( maybe try out the new sexed semen) and then when weaned, sell off the cows for dairy cows.

Maybe i'm being thick here - it's a regular occurrance - but what exactly does the above sentence mean????

Massey10

Tipp Man wrote: »

Maybe i'm being thick here - it's a regular occurrance - but what exactly does the above sentence mean????

It means 12 lts a day

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

delaval

kowtow wrote: »

And at what age would you set the upper limit for "young fellow"..

It's a state of mind!!!!
I was filling a form recently and had to tick box 40-65 bit of a shock. I am in early 40's myself but feel 25!!!

PMU

Mulumpy wrote: »

Fresh blood is badly needed in dairying and seens to be a lot of enthusiastic guys coming through. OP seems to have a great starting point and his head screwed on so best of luck. Wouldn't like to be starting from scratch nowadays though I think the Greenfield project proves that.

one thing Greenfield shows is the need for a business plan.you won't get on without having one

kowtow

delaval wrote: »

It's a state of mind!!!!
I was filling a form recently and had to tick box 40-65 bit of a shock. I am in early 40's myself but feel 25!!!

I know the feeling.

I'm also early 40's .. too old to be a young farmer, wrong edu-kash-un for new entrant.. no inherited entitlements .. clearly on the scrap heap and good for nothing as far as the government is concerned.

Which is odd, because they don't seem to think that when they are begging me to make a market in their bond issues.

Tipp Man

Massey10 wrote: »

It means 12 lts a day

So i wasn't wrong - we are talking about putting beef suckler cows in calf to Fr to get milking cows???????

WOW

kowtow

Tipp Man wrote: »

So i wasn't wrong - we are talking about putting beef suckler cows in calf to Fr to get milking cows???????

WOW

We're thinking of doing something along the same lines... but with a big dash of Montbeliarde.

Tipp Man

kowtow wrote: »

We're thinking of doing something along the same lines... but with a big dash of Montbeliarde.

Can you explain please in a bit more detail exactly what you are going to do?

mf240

Tipp Man wrote: »

Can you explain please in a bit more detail exactly what you are going to do?

Hes going to do two things badly.

kowtow

mf240 wrote: »

Hes going to do two things badly.

If it's only two I'll be very pleasantly surprised.

kowtow

Tipp Man wrote: »

Can you explain please in a bit more detail exactly what you are going to do?

It's early days at this stage but we are planning to milk a small herd primarily for cheese production, in the main from 2015 onwards.

At present we have an inherited handful of FR / MO with the odd bit of Angus thrown in. We're deciding now whether to start production in a very small way in 2014 or wait until 2015. At present these cattle are suckling their own calves which, although it has it's problems (straw bedding, shared mothers..) is producing some very healthy calves - touch wood - with little or no help from me.

There are good reasons for using MO either as crosses or pedigree in the cheese herd and although I am not fully decided, I'm leaning in favour of buying in some MO heifers and bulling everything to MO later in the year. As we require very little milk in 2014 - it's more a question of getting into gear - there may be no harm in suckling some half way decent calves at the same time and milking once a day.

Tipp Man

What do MO's bring especially to cheese production??

Had a few of them in the herd - never again - greatest b###ard of cows ever

Their grand daughters and great granddaughters still have the white head

kowtow

Tipp Man wrote: »

What do MO's bring especially to cheese production??

Had a few of them in the herd - never again - greatest b###ard of cows ever

Their grand daughters and great granddaughters still have the white head

High cheese yield & quality, relatively, due to kappa casein - but much more importantly they have a cheese pedigree - MO milk is a mandatory ingredient for several of the world's best cheeses and MO bulls are selected in large part to satisfy cheese makers.

Which is not to say that one needs MO to make a great cheese - but in a competitive marketplace the story is half the battle - and there's something to be said for a herd geared specifically to cheese production.

A few people have said that they are a pain to have in the parlour in particular - others (predictably) say the opposite. In part this is why I'm not yet convinced!

whelan1

Tipp Man wrote: »

What do MO's bring especially to cheese production??

Had a few of them in the herd - never again - greatest b###ard of cows ever

Their grand daughters and great granddaughters still have the white head

local dairy farmer had herd of montbelliarde cows and he made cheese.Glebe brethan cheese, unfortunately he is no longer with us, he was in ear to the ground etc, also sold raw milk

kowtow

whelan1 wrote: »

local dairy farmer had herd of montbelliarde cows and he made cheese.Glebe brethan cheese, unfortunately he is no longer with us, he was in ear to the ground etc, also sold raw milk

I'm sorry to hear that.. it's an excellent cheese.

What did you make of the MO? any horror stories?

delaval

Do not touch Monties they mature late and will eat you out of house and home. You will have a permanant fodder crisis aswell as a few broken limbs. I have milked my neighbours herd a few times and even he hates them!!!!

kowtow

delaval wrote: »

Do not touch Monties they mature late and will eat you out of house and home. You will have a permanant fodder crisis aswell as a few broken limbs. I have milked my neighbours herd a few times and even he hates them!!!!

Haha! that's what I was half hoping to hear. Is the same true of their crosses?

Although being a sucker for punishment I'm sure I will get a couple in to find out for myself..

Edit: the late maturity is not such a big issue where cheese is the primary venture.. I haven't been able to get any reliable hard data on feed / conversion yet - need to make a few house calls to make in France...

jayk1

positive feedback so far anyway. could anyone dairying give me an idea of there esb bill monthly? i know it was high here when milking yrs ago dont know if it has changed in recent yrs, also any bill saving strategies anyone using? other than nightsaver.

kowtow

jayk1 wrote: »

positive feedback so far anyway. could anyone dairying give me an idea of there esb bill monthly? i know it was high here when milking yrs ago dont know if it has changed in recent yrs, also any bill saving strategies anyone using? other than nightsaver.

There were a series of articles on this in the journal recently which I think gave examples for dairy farms excluding the farmhouse and some cost saving hints.

whelan1

jayk1 wrote: »

positive feedback so far anyway. could anyone dairying give me an idea of there esb bill monthly? i know it was high here when milking yrs ago dont know if it has changed in recent yrs, also any bill saving strategies anyone using? other than nightsaver.

was with bord gais 2 monthly bill where around 1000 euro, changed to electric ireland and bill is around 800 every 2 months now

jayk1

yea the auld lad was paying round the €1000 when he was at it that was including house n all, bout €6000 a year. electric ireland seem very competitive at that anyway. do u have one water pump doing the farm and house or what is your set up?

kevthegaff

my last bill was 400 incl house for 2 months anywhere between 400 and 600 on this farm for 2 months