Paddy spec

fjon

I'm sure there's a very simple answer to this, but why are Irish cars so badly specced compared to the UK or the rest of Europe?

MetzgerMeister

Because when buying new, Irish people are happy to forego leather, cruise, alloys etc. so they can either have a brand new reg or badge.

gallag

Because yous dont deserve nice things!

fletch

My car was better specced than the UK equivalent.

Anan1

fjon wrote: »

I'm sure there's a very simple answer to this, but why are Irish cars so badly specced compared to the UK or the rest of Europe?

Irish cars are not so much badly specced as differently specced. We like visible options, things like metallic and leather and wheels that the neighbours can see. The Germans, on the other hand, tend to favour useful stuff like heated seats and HID lights.

bazz26

Because of VRT. This tax pushes the price of a new car up so manufacturers remove what they consider non essential equipment from the car so that the retail price is competitive.

Max Power1

A lot of bottom end UK stuff is worse than what the paddy spec stuff is.

H3llR4iser

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Because when buying new, Irish people are happy to forego leather, cruise, alloys etc. so they can either have a brand new reg or badge.

I have to second this. I've been looking around for Alfa 159s - almost all of them have the 1.8 TS or the 1.9 JTD engines, which are too small for the car's weight.
Mazda 6s - same story, mostly with the lethargic 1.8. Wanna talk about BMW 316s?

People here seem to go the "let's get the cheapest/smallest engined option, it's not as important as our neighbours seeing a BMW in our driveway".

MetzgerMeister

H3llR4iser wrote: »

I have to second this. I've been looking around for Alfa 159s - almost all of them have the 1.8 TS or the 1.9 JTD engines, which are too small for the car's weight.
Mazda 6s - same story, mostly with the lethargic 1.8. Wanna talk about BMW 316s?

People here seem to go the "let's get the cheapest/smallest engined option, it's not as important as our neighbours seeing a BMW in our driveway".

Although there probably is a bit of this at play, my post was somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

Bazz is right, the main reason for it is VRT.

djimi

bazz26 wrote: »

Because of VRT. This tax pushes the price of a new car up so manufacturers remove what they consider non essential equipment from the car so that the retail price is competitive.

I always thought that this was the reason also. Cars are so expensive over here a lot of people have to forego the extras just to be able to afford a new car.

Cienciano

I think it's our attitude.
Someone can buy say a Honda with all the extras. By the time they add in all the extras they reckon it's the same price as basic BMW, so they might as well get that instead.
I'd rather the cheaper car with all the extras.

bazz26

H3llR4iser wrote: »

I have to second this. I've been looking around for Alfa 159s - almost all of them have the 1.8 TS or the 1.9 JTD engines, which are too small for the car's weight.
Mazda 6s - same story, mostly with the lethargic 1.8. Wanna talk about BMW 316s?

People here seem to go the "let's get the cheapest/smallest engined option, it's not as important as our neighbours seeing a BMW in our driveway".

Again engine size habits are primarily down to consecutive Governments penalizing the motorist over decades through motor tax. Even on the new system it is a hard habit to kick for most Irish motorists.

djimi

Its worth bearing in mind that a lot of motorists also dont give a toss about the extras; their car is a lump of metal that gets them from A to B, and the most part if it can do so as cheaply as possible then all the better. There is also a perception with a lot of people that a brand new car will give no trouble whatsoever, which is why so many people choose to buy a base spec new car, rather than spend the money on a well specced 2-3 year old car.

H3llR4iser

bazz26 wrote: »

Again engine size habits are primarily down to consecutive Governments penalizing the motorist over decades through motor tax. Even on the new system it is a hard habit to kick for most Irish motorists.

This definitely has a role, of course.

djimi wrote: »

Its worth bearing in mind that a lot of motorists also dont give a toss about the extras; their car is a lump of metal that gets them from A to B, and the most part if it can do so as cheaply as possible then all the better. There is also a perception with a lot of people that a brand new car will give no trouble whatsoever, which is why so many people choose to buy a base spec new car, rather than spend the money on a well specced 2-3 year old car.

And this as well. Still, in my view, it does not explain the amount of basic-engine, zero-spec "premium" saloons around in the country. Sure enough, at least in the era before the the current CO2 paradox, if you wanted to save (both on VRT and Motor Tax), you could get the likes of a Focus instead of a 3-Series or an A4, it would go from A to B just the same and even be less expensive to maintain and repair.

Most countries, at least in the EU, have motor tax and/or some registration systems that penalize bigger engines and more expensive premium cars; What happens there is that people simply buy smaller and cheaper cars.

Agricola

Would imagine there is an element of new reg > high specs in Ireland, but the penal motor tax rates here are the biggest issue. This is a country where the government effectively make certain cars unfeasible to buy and run.

_Kaiser_

Same story here..

Been looking for an A6 lately and wanted a few things..

- Auto
- Diesel
- Leather
- Full MMI
- MFSW
- (would be nice) Xenons
- (preferably) D-reg .. yea yea it shouldn't make a difference, but it does!

Most I looked at had a mixture of everything but the leather (how do you buy a car like that and skimp on the seats?!), or missing the MFSW, or the basic MMI.

But I found one - with a factory sunroof, Bluetooth, and parking sensors too .. but I did have to compromise on the Xenons .. and I read they're just as hard to change bulbs in as my Passat. Oh well!

Can't wait to pick her up next week

HandsomeDan

In a nutshell, VRT.

€2500 satnav anyone?

If you're not getting value for money, why would you?

Anan1

HandsomeDan wrote: »

In a nutshell, VRT.

€2500 satnav anyone?

If you're not getting value for money, why would you?

A €2500 sat nav that's outperformed by a €120 Garmin is poor value even without VRT.

HandsomeDan

Anan1 wrote: »

A €2500 sat nav that's outperformed by a €120 Garmin is poor value even without VRT.

True.

There's also the small market factor, I suppose.

creedp

djimi wrote: »

Its worth bearing in mind that a lot of motorists also dont give a toss about the extras; their car is a lump of metal that gets them from A to B, and the most part if it can do so as cheaply as possible then all the better. There is also a perception with a lot of people that a brand new car will give no trouble whatsoever, which is why so many people choose to buy a base spec new car, rather than spend the money on a well specced 2-3 year old car.

There might also be the factor that the more extras/toys you have the more that can/will go wrong. Many of these toys are costly to replace/fix and therefore if you are buying a 4/5 year old car and want to run it for a few years, the toys may not be that attractive, hence the hit taken on trade-in where the toys have a limited resale value.

MetzgerMeister

creedp wrote: »

There might also be the factor that the more extras/toys you have the more that can/will go wrong. Many of these toys are costly to replace/fix and therefore if you are buying a 4/5 year old car and want to run it for a few years, the toys may not be that attractive, hence the hit taken on trade-in where the toys have a limited resale value.

A most recent example being BMW's iDrive system :pac:

MuppetCheck

The pre tax price of cars here is amongst the lowest in the EU to reflect the impact of VRT, something has to give. Irish people are very slow to spend money on additional items above metallic paint or alloy wheels. In saying that many VAG cars are higher spec than the UK equivalent as standard, and most others are at a similar level.

Pique

MuppetCheck wrote: »

... many VAG cars are higher spec than the UK equivalent as standard, and most others are at a similar level.

I reckon the person who decides this must've staked his career on the late-80s Jetta diesel and that Ireland saved him.

Max Power1

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

A most recent example being BMW's iDrive system :pac:

Although sometimes that is a lot easier to fix than others!

colm_mcm

Its not all about vrt. Irish people are generally not into nice cars.

R.O.R

colm_mcm wrote: »

Its not all about vrt. Irish people are generally not into nice cars.

But then you have the people who say, why put all those extra's on to a basic car, why not go for one with more power?

Like a customer who added €17,000 of extras to a 520d M-Sport Auto Touring, yet some people though he should have gone for a standard 530d.

Anan1

R.O.R wrote: »

But then you have the people who say, why put all those extra's on to a basic car, why not go for one with more power?

Like a customer who added €17,000 of extras to a 520d M-Sport Auto Touring, yet some people though he should have gone for a standard 530d.

It's a recurring theme in Motors threads that people are unable to differentiate between their own priorities and those of others.

valleyoftheunos

The attitude of many people here to new cars is that they should be bought and driven until the wheels fall off with little or no money to be spent on them in the mean time.

So many people buy cars that they see purely as moterised conveyances that they intend to spend as little possible on maintaining it is little surprise that car buyers here don't spend on extras.

And the VRT, that's a real killer.

fjon

Interesting replies!
Given this info it seems that the likes of Dacia is exactly the type of car the typical Irish driver will buy?

valleyoftheunos

fjon wrote: »

Interesting replies!
Given this info it seems that the likes of Dacia is exactly the type of car the typical Irish driver will buy?

Unlikely, we fear change and Renaults.

Toyota, Mazda, Opel, Ford are the way people. Reasonable and reliable is how we like em! BMW or VW for the flash Harrys.

Red Kev

Anan1 wrote: »

Irish cars are not so much badly specced as differently specced. We like visible options, things like metallic and leather and wheels that the neighbours can see. The Germans, on the other hand, tend to favour useful stuff like heated seats and HID lights.

I've no idea why the germans are always mentioned here when it comes to well specced cars. The Germans have traditionally some of the worst specced cars in Europe, I spent most of the 90's and early 00's there and any BMW - Merc - Audi's had utterly sh1te spec up until the mid 90's or 2000. Typical German would rather an E-Class with zero spec than a C-Class well specced.

As regards here, a lot of people buy cars to suit themselves, not to lose massive depreciation on stuff like leather seats to make life more convenient for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. owner. My parents got a Golf Plus because of the ease of entry at their age, only do short runs and they don't drive like loopers so it was a 1.4 with a decent radio and that was it. suits them down to the ground, they were the ones buying it new so it's their cash and their choice.

slimjimmc

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

Unlikely, we fear change and Renaults.

Toyota, Mazda, Opel, Ford are the way people. Reasonable and reliable is how we like em! BMW or VW for the flash Harrys.

Dunno about that. According to SIMI figures, Renault outsold Hyundai, Opel, Skoka, Audi or BMW in 2012, 2011 and 2010 consecutively.

But you're correct about Toyota, VW and Ford consistently being top sellers.

2012 v 2011 new Irish registrations

bazz26

slimjimmc wrote: »

Dunno about that. According to SIMI figures, Renault outsold Hyundai, Opel, Skoka, Audi or BMW in 2012, 2011 and 2010 consecutively.

But you're correct about Toyota, VW and Ford consistently being top sellers.

2012 v 2011 new Irish registrations

Remember that Renault offered large discounts back then to bump up their market share including up to €5k off a Megane and Fluence. They are down in 9th place so far this year behind the likes of Hyundai, Skoda and Opel.

166man

H3llR4iser wrote: »

I have to second this. I've been looking around for Alfa 159s - almost all of them have the 1.8 TS or the 1.9 JTD engines, which are too small for the car's weight.
Mazda 6s - same story, mostly with the lethargic 1.8. Wanna talk about BMW 316s?

People here seem to go the "let's get the cheapest/smallest engined option, it's not as important as our neighbours seeing a BMW in our driveway".

1.9JTDm with a remap is pushing 180bhp. More than enough to power along comfortably.

1.8 is crap...;)

HurtLocker

It comes down to cost really.

If someone is buying a new car in Ireland and would rather the money than heated seats, sat nav, hell back electrics. They keep the money. To hell what the next buyer wants. If they want top spec buy new and spec out of their own pocket. Or go to the UK or buy an older car. Diesel is about the only thing people want with a new car now.

No point complaining to people buying new Irish cars that they aren't specing them high enough. Most people see their cars as an A to B car. Beggars can't be choosers unfortunately. And current taxes doesn't make Ireland a place to have pride for a big motor affordable.

Black_Knight

Although my CC is an import, it wasnt highly spec'd when it landed here. It does mean I get to have fun kitting it out!
Cruise Control - Check
Door warning lights - Check
Upgraded interior lighting - Check
GPS touch screen radio - Check.
Only 7 more things on my list.

Granted, if there were more full spec Irish cars in Ireland, id probably of found a full leather interior from a wreak by now.

Attitude comes into play really. Irish people seem to think cheap is best. So when it comes to selling a high spec'd car, you're either lucky and get a decent price, or everyone overlooks you because your well spec'd car is 1k more expensive than some baseline version. I predict this happening when my parents sell their 04 Accord Exec. High spec, low milage, very clean, probably get offers of 2k :eek:

pred racer

166man wrote: »

1.9JTDm with a remap is pushing 180bhp. More than enough to power along comfortably.

1.8 is crap...;)

It does ok without the remap;)

MetzgerMeister

pred racer wrote: »

It does ok without the remap;)

Ah but yours is 1.9JTDm :pac: