"He who doesn't pray to the Lord prays to the devil"

homer911

Just caught this quote on the current (non?) story about the Pope performing an exorcism, which is attributed to him on March 14th last

Given the history of members of the Roman Catholic Church praying to Mary and various saints, I'd be interested in the reaction to this which has strangely gone largely unreported until now.

This is something that Protestants have been saying for a long time, and now the Pope is saying it..

(If you want to discuss exorcism, please start another thread..)

martinedwards

no links?

anyway when Jesus & the apostles cast out evil spirits in the Bible they spoke directly to the spirits and told them to get out.

I assume (with no evidence at all!) that the Pope was doing the same, as this is the procedure I know folks use today.

homer911

Plenty of links to the Exorcism story that make reference to this quote, but couldnt find direct links to the story about the quote..

Again, interested in discussing the quote and not the exorcism story..

Popular Hardback

It wasn't an exorcism, just the usual Dan Brown types going into hysterical hyperactive mode again.

Why are the facts so rarely reported anymore ?

Just because a child is disabled, does not mean they are somehow 'possessed'

"The Vatican has denied that footage of Pope Francis taken last Sunday of him placing his hands on a disabled boy’s head shows him performing an exorcism.

Vatican spokesman, Father Federico Lombardi, said it had merely been a normal prayer for a sick or disabled visitor.

“Pope Francis did absolutely not intend to perform an exorcism on this occasion. As he frequently does with the sick and the suffering who come his way, he intended simply to pray for a suffering person who had been brought before him.”

The allegation came from the director who had been filming Francis at the time. In his commentary he had said the boy’s shouting as he was being blessed looked like an exorcism.

The director has since apologised."

http://www.euronews.com/2013/05/21/pope-denies-tv-exorcism-allegation/

Porthos

OP. With all due respect, you are reading into the Pope's Homily from a non-Catholic perspective. What the Pope is referring to in his homily is that one who does not profess Jesus Christ, professes the worldliness of the devil, and nothing to do with praying to the Mother of God or the Saints, seeing as the Pope himself is devoted to Mary and has dedicated his Papacy to Our Lady of Fatima.

Pope's full homily.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/homilies/2013/documents/papa-francesco_20130314_omelia-cardinali_en.html

Popular Hardback

Porthos wrote: »

OP. With all due respect, you are reading into the Pope's Homily from a non-Catholic perspective. What the Pope is referring to in his homily is that one who does not profess Jesus Christ, professes the worldliness of the devil, and nothing to do with praying to the Mother of God or the Saints, seeing as the Pope himself is devoted to Mary and has dedicated his Papacy to Our Lady of Fatima.

Pope's full homily.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/homilies/2013/documents/papa-francesco_20130314_omelia-cardinali_en.html

In the mainstream media Popes and the Vatican are almost never quoted in context or fully, and almost always selectively misquoted to suit the agenda of the day. You always have to go back to the full quote to see what they were actually saying. Something most people never bother to do.

georgieporgy

homer911 wrote: »

Just caught this quote on the current (non?) story about the Pope performing an exorcism, which is attributed to him on March 14th last

Given the history of members of the Roman Catholic Church praying to Mary and various saints, I'd be interested in the reaction to this which has strangely gone largely unreported until now.

This is something that Protestants have been saying for a long time, and now the Pope is saying it..

(If you want to discuss exorcism, please start another thread..)

You know of course that the same pope "prays to" Mary and the saints and seems to be able to reconcile that with his quote.
It's just that catholics believe in the 'communion of saints"

http://christianity.about.com/od/christiandoctrines/qt/apostlescreed.htm


Scott Hahn has this to say:

Archeologists Have Evidence of First Century Veneration of the Saints Does scripture show us rather that saints recall their lives here and pray for those with whom they lived? Saints surround us like family members in a crowd as we have seen in Hebrews 12. Let's take a look now and see where all of this is, in fact, taught. Let's turn to the Book of Revelation. While we're turning to the Book of Revelation, I'm just going to mention the fact that 1st Century catacomb inscriptions found that archeologists in this century, dating all the way back to the first, second and third generations after Christ and the apostles give clear witness and testimony to this ancient custom of venerating and asking the saints for intercession. One inscription, "Peter and Paul, pray for Victor." Another one, "Peter and Paul, remember Zozamon." There are many other inscriptions just like this. They're not odd. They're not quirky. They're typical.


read the whole article,
http://catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0151.html
(it's rather lengthy I'm afraid)

homer911

Thanks for the clarification and link, yes, definitely taken out of context

dadvocate

Porthos wrote: »

OP. With all due respect, you are reading into the Pope's Homily from a non-Catholic perspective. What the Pope is referring to in his homily is that one who does not profess Jesus Christ, professes the worldliness of the devil, and nothing to do with praying to the Mother of God or the Saints, seeing as the Pope himself is devoted to Mary and has dedicated his Papacy to Our Lady of Fatima.

Pope's full homily.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/homilies/2013/documents/papa-francesco_20130314_omelia-cardinali_en.html

So the Pope is accusing five- or six-billion people of praying to the devil?

That would be utter nonsense.

lmaopml

dadvocate wrote: »

So the Pope is accusing five- or six-billion people of praying to the devil?

That would be utter nonsense.

No the Pope put his hands on a persons head and said a prayer -

...that's part of the job description to pray for others.

As for 'expulsion' of Satan and everything that is contrary to the Gospel etc. isn't that the battle every Christian is engaged in OP? Or only some who say it, and don't find themselves torn or embarrassed about doing so?

dadvocate

lmaopml wrote: »

No the Pope put his hands on a persons head and said a prayer -

...that's part of the job description to pray for others.

As for 'expulsion' of Satan and everything that is contrary to the Gospel etc. isn't that the battle every Christian is engaged in OP? Or only some who say it, and don't find themselves torn or embarrassed about doing so?

From the homily:

"When we do not profess Jesus Christ, the saying of Léon Bloy comes to mind: "Anyone who does not pray to the Lord prays to the devil." When we do not profess Jesus Christ, we profess the worldliness of the devil, a demonic worldliness."

Did the Pope say this or didn't he?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

lmaopml

dadvocate wrote: »

From the homily:

"When we do not profess Jesus Christ, the saying of Léon Bloy comes to mind: "Anyone who does not pray to the Lord prays to the devil." When we do not profess Jesus Christ, we profess the worldliness of the devil, a demonic worldliness."

Did the Pope say this or didn't he?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

dadvocate, I can see your status, and that perhaps it's not likely that you can reply. So respecting that, I'd just like to say, that the Pope didn't 'pray' for or with this person during a 'homily' he gave, it was when he was with people in public and he was asked to pray for a person in the crowd of people - which is surprisingly enough what Christians are called to do.

What he said in the 'homily' you quoted has little to do with this poor soul he met, and the sensationalism is rather daft imo.

raze_them_all_

with this exact quote did the pope not recently say that if people didn't know about god they would be accepted to heaven?? is this not contradictory?

lmaopml

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

with this exact quote did the pope not recently say that if people didn't know about god they would be accepted to heaven?? is this not contradictory?

Well, perhaps it's time to get to know Pope Francis, if you really want to know at all and not be spoon fed the 'highlights' out of context like the above 'new quote'...not 'exact quote' and not associate everything he says and does with a few quotes and punctuation marks, but to really know not only him but also what Catholics believe and actually are..without resorting to pasting together some kind of fiction.


It would be really nice if we weren't presented as merely 2d instead of 3d because we're actual people who live and love, most likely live next door or are relatives. We're not baddies, we're just Catholics who are Christians and don't apologise for it, just people.