Computer Forenics and Security

Juicy432

Hi,
I have this down as my first choice so I'm just wondering if anybody has information regarding it, course hours, continuous /exam assessed difficulty and future employment.


Cheers

b0ardsUser

Juicy432 wrote: »

Hi,
I have this down as my first choice so I'm just wondering if anybody has information regarding it, course hours, continuous /exam assessed difficulty and future employment.


Cheers

I didn't do the course directly but I did share some modules with these guys. This course used to be a 3 year course but now its been extended to a 4 year course.

The points are low enough as they try to encourage people to do it. I know 3 graduates personally and they are all in jobs in Dublin. Seems to be a difficult enough course from what I hear. Course hours are about 30 hours per week roughly... (similar enough to what my course was).

John Sheppard runs the course, he appears to be a nice enough guy (that being said, I haven't dealt with him face to face)...

Juicy432

b0ardsUser wrote: »

I didn't do the course directly but I did share some modules with these guys. This course used to be a 3 year course but now its been extended to a 4 year course.

The points are low enough as they try to encourage people to do it. I know 3 graduates personally and they are all in jobs in Dublin. Seems to be a difficult enough course from what I hear. Course hours are about 30 hours per week roughly... (similar enough to what my course was).

John Sheppard runs the course, he appears to be a nice enough guy (that being said, I haven't dealt with him face to face)...

Yeah, I was talking to him at the open day a few weeks back, he was very friendly and genuine. 30 hrs is not too bad, I was expecting a lot more.

Thanks for the reply.

johnnykilo

I didn't do this course but I shared some modules with them and I went onto a Masters with one or two of the lads. Pretty much what b0ardsUser said is true.

I'd just add a couple of more points. The course is one of the more difficult IT based ones, partly because there is more Maths in it than the other courses, as a lot of the IT security techniques are based on Maths techniques. And while 30 hours is about right, you'll have to work another 10 or 20 on top of that yourself to keep up with the work, do the weekly lab reports or projects (particularly in later years). This is the true of most courses though; so just once you're aware that there is a lot of maths and you'll have to put in hours outside college you'll be fine.

The job prospects for getting a job in security used to be limited enough in Ireland, although there have been a lot more announcements in this area in the last 18 months so maybe it's changed now. However you shouldn't have any problem getting a job in general software anyway if you need to. You'll come out well qualified from this course.

b0ardsUser

johnnykilo wrote: »

I didn't do this course but I shared some modules with them and I went onto a Masters with one or two of the lads. Pretty much what b0ardsUser said is true.

I'd just add a couple of more points. The course is one of the more difficult IT based ones, partly because there is more Maths in it than the other courses, as a lot of the IT security techniques are based on Maths techniques. And while 30 hours is about right, you'll have to work another 10 or 20 on top of that yourself to keep up with the work, do the weekly lab reports or projects (particularly in later years). This is the true of most courses though; so just once you're aware that there is a lot of maths and you'll have to put in hours outside college you'll be fine.

The job prospects for getting a job in security used to be limited enough in Ireland, although there have been a lot more announcements in this area in the last 18 months so maybe it's changed now. However you shouldn't have any problem getting a job in general software anyway if you need to. You'll come out well qualified from this course.

Yes sorry, I meant about 30 hours of class! There's a lot of out of class work to do if you want to do well. Between Applied Computing (my course) and Computer Forensics I would argue that they would be both the hardest I.T. courses in WIT.

Media999

Juicy432 wrote: »

Yeah, I was talking to him at the open day a few weeks back, he was very friendly and genuine. 30 hrs is not too bad, I was expecting a lot more.

Thanks for the reply.

The thing about IT is if you like IT you will love it and do well but if you hate it or are just there because of Grants / something to do / The wife etc.. youll soon drop out.

My course 100 started and theres about 15 left. Not because its incredibly difficult it just takes a particular mindset. You will 100% spend many, many hours in front of a laptop tapping away at work. People who are into IT tend to do this anyway. Not incredibly difficult just long and tedious. Example being a 3000 word essay on a very niche subject.

Ive realised that Maths is a lot easier than i would have imagined but the overall work load is whats challenging. studying / working from 7pm to midnight most of the week isnt rare if you want to do well.

Forget the studying to pass a test attitude that the leaving cert teaches and change to the studying to learn new skills for industry attitude.

cfc.forever

Media999, what you have said is totally encouraging, do you know what the points are for this course, just out of interest.

Juicy432

cfc.forever wrote: »

Media999, what you have said is totally encouraging, do you know what the points are for this course, just out of interest.

It's been around 290 the last few years!

Media999

Software Systems is just over 200 points and really good. Dont do IT as its not that great. People who fall into the Grants / something to do / The wife / Theres jobs in IT so ill do IT etc.. bracket tend to do IT. by IT i mean the IT course not IT as a whole.

Any more questions just drop us a PM and ill give as much details as i can.

b0ardsUser

Media999 wrote: »

Any more questions just drop us a PM and ill give as much details as i can.

Likewise, I'm a graduate of Applied Computing (IMO the best IT course WIT has an offer) Happy to answer any questions relevant to that course or 'sister courses'.

Juicy432

Cheers lads I've decided to stick both Applied Computing and Software Systems on my Cao. Have you guys completed the courses yet? What sort of employment have you got since you finished?

brian plank

Media999 wrote: »

Software Systems is just over 200 points and really good. Dont do IT as its not that great. People who fall into the Grants / something to do / The wife / Theres jobs in IT so ill do IT etc.. bracket tend to do IT. by IT i mean the IT course not IT as a whole.

IT share a lot of modules every year with software systems so one can't be better than the other. same lecturers, same material.

b0ardsUser

Juicy432 wrote: »

Cheers lads I've decided to stick both Applied Computing and Software Systems on my Cao. Have you guys completed the courses yet? What sort of employment have you got since you finished?

I'm in employment, don't want to say where because it will give away who I am on Boards. It's not quite where I expected to end up, but that being said I enjoy what I do. All of Applied graduates from last year are in employment.

Media999

brian plank wrote: »

IT share a lot of modules every year with software systems so one can't be better than the other. same lecturers, same material.

Share a couple each year alright.

Its more the people it attracts. Way too many people who are just there to be in college and no real interest in coding. The amount of stupid questions they ask in the mixed classes is unreal.

Tom_Cruise

Media999 wrote: »

Software Systems is just over 200 points and really good. Dont do IT as its not that great. People who fall into the Grants / something to do / The wife / Theres jobs in IT so ill do IT etc.. bracket tend to do IT. by IT i mean the IT course not IT as a whole.

Any more questions just drop us a PM and ill give as much details as i can.

So stay away from the IT course is what you're saying?

Is is that bad?

Media999

Tom_Cruise wrote: »

So stay away from the IT course is what you're saying?

Is is that bad?

Hard to explain. Content isnt bad but as a group its not great. A lot of mature students who have no clue. Just keep on asking stupid irrelevant questions. Lecturers get really pissed off from having to answer them and it really just holds back the class.

I worked with someone who had just graduated from that course and they didnt know how to install a wordpress blog. I could excuse someone starting the course of that but graduating its shameful. They didnt know what FTP meant. These people wouldnt dream of coding for fun or having an interest in Technology. Its all about the fact "there are jobs in IT" for them. Not everyone in the course is like that but when youre surrounded by it its hard to avoid.

The other courses like SSD Ent Systems and Applied Computing have a group that genuinely have an interest in the subject and get enjoyment from it. Especially after a few months when people drop out. I 100% believe that even if there was no jobs or the pay was crap like other graduates they would still be there.

If you have a huge interest in technology like the oculus rift and Google Glass etc go for anything but the IT course. If you heard "there is jobs in IT" and thats the sole reason your going to WIT by all means apply for IT as youll be with others in the same boat.

RabbleRouser2k

Media999 wrote: »

Hard to explain. Content isnt bad but as a group its not great. A lot of mature students who have no clue. Just keep on asking stupid irrelevant questions. Lecturers get really pissed off from having to answer them and it really just holds back the class.

I worked with someone who had just graduated from that course and they didnt know how to install a wordpress blog. I could excuse someone starting the course of that but graduating its shameful. They didnt know what FTP meant. These people wouldnt dream of coding for fun or having an interest in Technology. Its all about the fact "there are jobs in IT" for them. Not everyone in the course is like that but when youre surrounded by it its hard to avoid.

The other courses like SSD Ent Systems and Applied Computing have a group that genuinely have an interest in the subject and get enjoyment from it. Especially after a few months when people drop out. I 100% believe that even if there was no jobs or the pay was crap like other graduates they would still be there.

If you have a huge interest in technology like the oculus rift and Google Glass etc go for anything but the IT course. If you heard "there is jobs in IT" and thats the sole reason your going to WIT by all means apply for IT as youll be with others in the same boat.

Oh you will find that among every age group (bizarrely). It's either people going out drinking, missing classes, or just being there for a 2-4 year holiday. Some don't even do their own work, and pay other folks to do it for them. (I know one who got her mother to do certain projects for her, since mummy was a nurse, and many of her modules were similar to what her mum had studied. Wth? ). They don't seem to realise that in order to get work, you have to be able to do what your CV says you can do.

It's no wonder many employers are complaining that the IT's are not training the prospective employees in their field. I won't argue that some of them are not, but a signifcant amount of it is down to folks not having an interest in the subject, and are there to drink themselves stupid for 2-4 years whilst mommy and daddy pay for it.
It's irritating, but most drop out.

Media999

To be honest it just makes the people who can code look a lot better.

Most HR departments know the system and know clueless idiots get through by scraping a pass on projects.

They will never go beyond working in a dead end job on minimum wage or if they do get a decent job they will not last long. Ive seen first hand a group of people being sacked as they where clueless. Group of friends who went through college copying each other and not a brain between them. All got jobs in the same place. Not one passed the probationary period. All out on their asses after 2 months. Very easy to lie your way through college and learn to pass tests rather than learn to code. People like that are laughed at in industry and quickly handed their p45s.

RabbleRouser2k

Media999 wrote: »

To be honest it just makes the people who can code look a lot better.

Most HR departments know the system and know clueless idiots get through by scraping a pass on projects.

They will never go beyond working in a dead end job on minimum wage or if they do get a decent job they will not last long. Ive seen first hand a group of people being sacked as they where clueless. Group of friends who went through college copying each other and not a brain between them. All got jobs in the same place. Not one passed the probationary period. All out on their asses after 2 months. Very easy to lie your way through college and learn to pass tests rather than learn to code. People like that are laughed at in industry and quickly handed their p45s.

The problem is, I see one or two of them graduating with high marks, which worries me as someone who graduates with a lower degree, yet with superior skills, may find that they have a harder time getting work, especially if previous graduates with high marks are rubbish at what they claim to be good at.
Alot of these colleges have tons of written essays which make for higher grades, but then the stuff that will get them a job are often neglected, by them, so much so that one comes out of an institute with a high degree, but no practical abilities. I know folks with kick-butt abilities in web programming, video editing, animation, but lower level degrees because they did not devote as much time to written stuff, while those with higher ones lacked those abilities, whilst spending alot of time on essays and other paperwork. It's disheartening, in many ways.
I have sldo known people, who, idiotically, post their results, year by year on Facebook or other social media sites, with messages like 'Passed by 1%, yay'' and you just have to wonder 'What if your employer saw that? They won't take someone on after an internship/ trial period if they are not up to snuff, and not if they are scraping passes either.
And as you noted, there are far too many people who see 'There's money in this, that means I will study that' which is just the completely wrong attitude to take in anything. Life is far too short to study for something that one hates, because once the course is over, one is stuck in that job for the rest of their remaining years rather than being in something they love for the rest of their lives. It is a tricky question one has to ask themselves regarding whether they want to do this for the rest of their lives...or they want to do it as a hobby. And if one is a hobbyist, than my answer is simple...don't do it as a career.

Media999

A degree will only get you an interview and maybe a probation period in a company. Thats where you prove yourself.

As ive said ive seen whole groups let go because they just couldnt do the job even though on paper they really should have been able to. Ive seen others shine and get promoted very quickly because they actually could do the job and had a passion for it.

RabbleRouser2k

Media999 wrote: »

A degree will only get you an interview and maybe a probation period in a company. Thats where you prove yourself.

As ive said ive seen whole groups let go because they just couldnt do the job even though on paper they really should have been able to. Ive seen others shine and get promoted very quickly because they actually could do the job and had a passion for it.

I am really glad to hear that. I dunno why, maybe it gives me hope for humanity.

brian plank

Tom_Cruise wrote: »

So stay away from the IT course is what you're saying?

Is is that bad?

it's not a bad course. i shared a good few modules with IT and they didn't constantly ask stupid questions or disrupt anyone. to say it attracts wasters based on a few mature students asking questions is a bit retarded tbh.

you're going to get a few dickheads in first year of every course but they usually only last to christmas.

RabbleRouser2k

And wasters come in all shapes, ages, sizes, and genders.

There are alot of folks who take on a course just to get the grant. And alot of them don't get the grant, since they don't turn up, and complain when they don't get it. They don't realise that the grant is only handed out based on 80-90 percent attendance record. I know a few who were shocked when nothing turned up in the bank acount, and the parents started making very angry phone calls because the grant was meant to pay for the loans they had taken out to pay for said wasters non-attendance.

I have seen a few courses that seem to be propagated with wasters, and ya know the really hard courses since they tend to be the one's where the wasters are whittled out completely.
It's sort of why I absolutely detest courses that are propagated with group projects, since they tend to allow wasters stay on into a course they should have long since dropped out of. Yet the projects stay group because they are easier to correct.

Media999

brian plank wrote: »

it's not a bad course. i shared a good few modules with IT and they didn't constantly ask stupid questions or disrupt anyone. to say it attracts wasters based on a few mature students asking questions is a bit retarded tbh.

you're going to get a few dickheads in first year of every course but they usually only last to christmas.

Not just mature. If you look at the marks and compare them to the shared classes they are consistently lower than the other courses. Not a small bit either. Youre talking 20% lower in most cases, especially in programming.

Also theyre not all wasters. Im sure most mean the best but i think if you want to be around people who actually have a passion for the skill you would be better in a different course.

Tom_Cruise

Media999 wrote: »

Not just mature. If you look at the marks and compare them to the shared classes they are consistently lower than the other courses. Not a small bit either. Youre talking 20% lower in most cases, especially in programming.

Also theyre not all wasters. Im sure most mean the best but i think if you want to be around people who actually have a passion for the skill you would be better in a different course.

If IT is that bad, what level 7 course would you recommend instead, out of SSD, IT and MM, if any?

I was interested in the IT course, only because i have had friends who are nearly finished it so i was able to ask them a few questions/get some insight on it.

brian plank

Media999 wrote: »

Not just mature. If you look at the marks and compare them to the shared classes they are consistently lower than the other courses. Not a small bit either. Youre talking 20% lower in most cases, especially in programming.

Also theyre not all wasters. Im sure most mean the best but i think if you want to be around people who actually have a passion for the skill you would be better in a different course.

how can you look at someone elses marks to compare? you're talking sh*te tbh, there's no difference between the type of person who does ssd and IT.

Media999

Tom_Cruise wrote: »

If IT is that bad, what level 7 course would you recommend instead, out of SSD, IT and MM, if any?

I was interested in the IT course, only because i have had friends who are nearly finished it so i was able to ask them a few questions/get some insight on it.

Does it have to be lvl 7?

If lvl 7 id go for SSD. Only because i believe it concentrates on coding which will get you a job. A really good job.

I think the money is gone out of web design and multimedia. Thats just my opinion. Maybe emigrate or go freelance and get big bucks im not sure.

Dont get me wrong either with what ive said. In any of the courses if you take the initiative and learn your skill well youll get good jobs. Youll get in somewhere and if your good youll stay and get promoted.

Good advice i could give you is know what you want to learn before you even get in. Know what programming languages you need to work at your desired job and always be steering in that direction. youll get there eventually if your determined enough. Start projects NOW. nothing is going to magically happen when your bogged down with work. If anything that will destroy your creativity. Register domain names now. Get out a refill pad and jot down how your projects will work. Maybe even a business plan. Youll have a massive advantage.

For example if you want to create your own ecommerce sites and make a living online you would be best to concentrate on PHP and SEO. Get any site online and evolve it from now rather than wait. When your in college and your learning something you can ask yourself how it would improve my site. When you make more money online because you implemented something that you learned in college it will give you great determination.

cfc.forever

"You don't need a degree to learn coding, you can do it yourself, anyways regarding this topic "Computer Forensics and Security" it doesn't involve coding, if you want to get a decent job and do coding, study Computer Science

Dymo

cfc.forever wrote: »

"You don't need a degree to learn coding, you can do it yourself

Correct but if you see any job advertised, the minimum requirements is a Degree in some Computer Science field.That's why I did the course, I was a relatively good coder before in a number of languages but it was pointless applying for a job as you'd never get beyond the screening process with no degree.

RoyalMarine

cfc.forever wrote: »

"You don't need a degree to learn coding, you can do it yourself, anyways regarding this topic "Computer Forensics and Security" it doesn't involve coding, if you want to get a decent job and do coding, study Computer Science

coding in various languages is a big part of the course, so it's very relevant.