Golf GT TDi losing power.

intellectual dosser

Hi all,

First time posting a Motors question.

I have a 2004 Mark V Golf GT TDi. Yesterday I was on the M6 going around 115-120 kph when I suddenly noticed there was no pick up when i leaned a bit heavier on the accelerator.

The speed fell to around 110kph and wouldnt go any higher. I slowed right down to get into a lower gear and while the car would accelerate - it wasnt with any power. I eventually pulled in and turned the car off for about 30 seconds - and it was completely fine.

My question is - has anyone experienced something like this before. I'm not a mechanic but my guess was that the turbo failed. Id done a good bit of driving all day and maybe it overheated or something?

Appreciate any input, I dont have much funds for a trip to the garage, they generally tend to 'see me coming'. I'm looking for ideas on whether this is a big concern requiring immediate attention.

JJJJNR

Car went into limp mode, were you carrying anything like other passengers, happened to me once before and never again.

keithclancy

You need someone to read the fault codes, might not be the Turbo, could be the Mass Airflow Meter for example.

hanloj1

i have audi. I had this few times before, even recently.

1. I redlined which caused car to go into limp mode. Simple key off and on reset.

2. Blew off my intercooler pipe. She went into limp and stayed there. Had to repair pipe.

3. Recently she goes into limp out of nowhere. Mainly when driving her on. One of my vacuum pipes is broken. Pipe is on order.

Obviously one and two won't fix yours but it could be three. Also the boost pressure sensor could be dirty or on way out. I changed this too once.

intellectual dosser

Thanks all,

I guess I'll see if it becomes a common occurence before worrying more about it. Glad I'm not the only one to have experienced this.

JJJJNR wrote: »

Car went into limp mode, were you carrying anything like other passengers, happened to me once before and never again.

No - was on my own.

MrFrisp

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Thanks all,

I guess I'll see if it becomes a common occurence before worrying more about it. Glad I'm not the only one to have experienced this.



No - was on my own.

To be honest,,if your ever doing motorway driving,,or drive where you overtake other cars,,it's best to get it seen to soon enough.

Last thing you want is to be in an overtaking position,and then lose power. :eek:

Get the car scanned with vagcom..It should show up any logged fault codes.
.

pred racer

Does your car have a variable vane Turbo?
A friend of mine had the same issue with a Golf Tdi (not GT) and it was the relay that controls the vanes in the turbo.

I had the same issue in a C5hdi and it was the maf.

sean1141

new or old shape golf?

intellectual dosser

pred racer wrote: »

Does your car have a variable vane Turbo?

I have no idea

sean1141 wrote: »

new or old shape golf?

I'm not sure what you mean?

sean1141

intellectual dosser wrote: »

I'm not sure what you mean?

Is it a mk4 or mk5 golf?

studdlymurphy

Have a read here
But I would suggest getting the diagnostics checked before doing anything as it will give you a direction, there will definitly be a code from the first limp mode fault.
If it happens driving again you can clutch the car turn off the engine and then restart it and release the clutch and it will be reset but I would get it fixed sooner rather than later.

sean1141

OSI wrote: »

OP:

only seen 2004 golf:o

intellectual dosser

studdlymurphy wrote: »

Have a read here
But I would suggest getting the diagnostics checked before doing anything as it will give you a direction, there will definitly be a code from the first limp mode fault.
If it happens driving again you can clutch the car turn off the engine and then restart it and release the clutch and it will be reset but I would get it fixed sooner rather than later.

Thank you - great help!

studdlymurphy

Free diagnostics from like minded people. As with anything free an offering goes a long way so bring something along for their time but most of these guys are better than garages as they specialize in VW/Audi/Seat/Scoda.
http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?134957-VCDS-User-Location-Map

intellectual dosser

Just to fill you in (for anyone still following), I got the car back from a service today. They took the car for a spin to try and reproduce the Turbo problem and couldnt - so without deeper diagnostics they wont know anything further. It doesnt seem to have come up on normal error logs.

They did however say that there is a whine/whistling noise coming from the turbo which could be cause for concern. I'm going to go through the forum studdlymurphy has provided and see if theres any mention. The person at the service garage felt the Turbo could be on its last legs, replacing it would be €1300 but allowing it to blow out could require the engine to be completely replaced (car isnt worth it). The person in question was a sales rep as opposed to a mechanic so I'll be checking around. I'm not swimming in cash at the moment.

studdlymurphy

Reconditioned turbo is 350euro and a local mechanic to fit it- prob 100 euro max.
http://driveshaft.ie/

Zcott

EGR coked up?

alo1587

If you turn it off and then its fine after you start it again,its possibly an electrical problem.It could be the airflow meter.It could also be the thrust pressure sensor on the inlet pipe to the inlet manifold.This was the problem on my car (02 passat tdi 130).Also check the one way valves/filters on the vacuum pipes to the turbo solenoid,and the vacuum pipes themselves for splits/bad joins.The valves are little black and white plastic things
I'd check all these before id go at the turbo

studdlymurphy

Zcott wrote: »

EGR coked up?

Good suggestion als the inlet manifold, if cleaning one you shoudl do both together as the EGR needs to come off to do the inlet manifold. You can do these yourself they are only bolt off clean bold on jobs, awkward but definitly doable.

_Kaiser_

hanloj1 wrote: »

i have audi. I had this few times before, even recently.

1. I redlined which caused car to go into limp mode. Simple key off and on reset.

2. Blew off my intercooler pipe. She went into limp and stayed there. Had to repair pipe.

3. Recently she goes into limp out of nowhere. Mainly when driving her on. One of my vacuum pipes is broken. Pipe is on order.

Obviously one and two won't fix yours but it could be three. Also the boost pressure sensor could be dirty or on way out. I changed this too once.

To be honest it sounds more like your driving style than anything else - said as another Audi driver who's not shy of the right pedal either but not to the point of redlining and blowing stuff off.

intellectual dosser

OK guys - It all came to a head today (I hope).

I didnt reply back here because I decided not to do anything about it after mechanics couldnt find anything definitively wrong. I wasn't going forking out a lot of money to fix something based on a hunch, and it has been running fine since.

The whine from under the bonnet had always been there though, and today as I was driving I heard a pop and felt this huge jolt as I switched from 2nd into 3rd. I initially thought I had hit something and had a flat tyre because the pop/jolt seemed to come from the left hand side of the car. I pulled in, nothing looked wrong but as I went to take off again it became apparent that the car was goosed.

The car chuggs and jumps along at around 10-15 kph but no higher. There was some minor smoke coming from 'out of the car', I honestly cant say whether it was from the bonnet or under the chassis or even if it was just excessive exhaust smoke (it's not that cold today). This smoke only came when I was driving, not when the car was stationary. There was also a smell, but I cant describe what that was like. The only other symptom is that there is a humming or vibration coming from under the bonnet, 2 seconds on 2 seconds off. I couldnt pin point where even with the bonnet open, this happens when the car is stationary.

Anyway I managed to limp it up to the Volkswagon service mechanics and they'll be taking a look at it in the afternoon. I deserve this having been aware of some sort of a problem and not doing anything to remedy, I do feel a sense of relief now that it has come to a head and the problem will finally be fixed - as long as it's the same issue!

Luckily today is payday, I hope the family aren't expecting anything hectic for Christmas!

hanloj1

Any update?

I had a whine from my turbo. turned out that the butterfly valve was getting stuck open. It got to a point where the car went into limp mode. I ended up getting reconditioned turbo fitted.

intellectual dosser

One of the pipes going into the Intercooler became disconnected. The fittings that hold it in place are in bits, the mechanics reconnected it again but it broke apart again within a couple of hundred yards of driving. The really cruel part is that the fittings come part of the Intercooler, so I'm going to have to replace the whole thing to get that car back on the road.

As for the whine, they now say it's just Turbo lag, and a solution would be to replace the whole thing for €1200. Honestly I think these lads eyes turn into Euro signs when they see me walking in.

JJJJNR

My tdi has that whine since I got it with 40k on, its got the same whine now with 290k on. They are using scare tactics, get a new mechanic.

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

intellectual dosser wrote: »

As for the whine, they now say it's just Turbo lag, and a solution would be to replace the whole thing for €1200.

:):):)
Amazing - finally the solution to turbo lag! I'm going to phone Borg Warner, IHI & Garrett to let them know. I'm sure I can play them off each other and receive a nice commission on all their future lagless turbos.

hanloj1

you should try self tapping the pipe onto intercooler. It'll work and save you money.
If you do decide to get turbo sorted please don't pay 1200e. A reconditioned turbo from garrett are only 360e.

intellectual dosser

hanloj1 wrote: »

you should try self tapping the pipe onto intercooler. It'll work and save you money.
If you do decide to get turbo sorted please don't pay 1200e. A reconditioned turbo from garrett are only 360e.

I've pretty much committed to getting the intercooler replaced, I need to get my car back on the road so I'm going to have to swallow this bitter pill.

As for the turbo, thanks for the tip. I'll be getting 2nd and 3rd opinions before making any decision, really don't see myself paying €1200 for anything, I don't think it's worth it.

Chimaera

I'd guess the turbo issue could well be a sooted up VNT mechanism. On gently driven cars especially, soot produced during combustion lodges in the area around the vanes and prevents them moving properly to control boost. With the heat of the exhaust, it bakes into a hard mass that eventually traps the vanes and stops them moving altogether. This will always cause limp mode.

There are other possible causes too: they should be running a full diagnostic on the car, paying special attention to the N75 solenoid and the MAP sensor as these are core parts of the boost control system. They should be looking for any leaks in the vacuum system also.

seachto7

Happened me with an astra tdi. Lost power for a bit, then picked up. Can't recall exactly what the problem was, but cost me a few quid to sort out...

intellectual dosser

To whom it concerns, I thought I'd keep this thread updated with my progress.

I went on a 2.5hr journey over Christmas and the car (Mk5 2.0 TDi) went into limp mode 3 times, so I figured I can no longer tell myself I'm looking after this car unless I get this finally sorted. In summary, the problem now is that the car is going into limp mode when it's been on the road for a while (1hr +) and I ask too much of it in a high gear. For example this could be traveling at 95kph in 5th gear and then accelerating, or going up a steep hill in as low as 4th gear. I also have one of those token 'whine' noises (Example I found on Youtube) that a lot of Volkswagen's have - and I think it has been getting worse over the last couple of months. In terms of fixing, my local certified Volkswagen mechanic has advised that a turbo replacement is required and have quoted nearly €1300 for parts and labor.

Last night I met an independent mechanic for a second opinion. He read the error codes and while I cant tell you precisely which one, it's a boost problem, the vanes in the turbo are not releasing when the power is taken off. When the car is being exerted like I described above a sensor 'realizes' there is a problem and puts the car into limp mode. He also thinks the vanes being stuck closed is causing the whine.

He's going to take the car for a while later in the week and try and get in at the turbo for a proper look and then present me with my options. I can already tell he's finding it difficult to go against the advice I already have on replacing the turbo, he's generally against reconditioned turbos as he thinks they have a high failure rate. Hopefully he can at least give me a cheaper alternative.

Anyone out there have any knowledge/experiences with these vanes staying shut?

chrismon

Best of luck with it op.
I hadn't heard about a high failure rate on reconditioned turbos before?

MrFrisp

The "MrMuscle" cleaning treatment is usually a short term fix for it.

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a4-a4-cabriolet-s4-forum-b6-chassis/177333-1-9tdi-sticking-turbo-vanes-fix-pics.html

It's only short term though, and may need to be repeated every few months.

For the sake of €2.00/€3.00 and some labour time though, it might be worth a go.

https://www.google.ie/search?q=mr+muscle+fix+for+sticky+vanes&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&gws_rd=cr&ei=1cnLUuOJHKfB7Ab7-ID4Ag
.

intellectual dosser

"mr muscle fix for sticky vanes"

Not "veins", shows how much I know!

alo1587

Yeah I've seen a vnt turbo to coke up before, the ring that controls the vanes for getting rid of excess boost get coked up with carbon deposits and cant move freely.If cleaning wont do it you have to split the turbo.I know what you mean about reconditioned turbos you can get a good one or a bad one.What I did with my 02 passat tdi was buy a new centre core (around 300)and use my existing turbine/exhaust housing.So far so good anyway

Chimaera

intellectual dosser wrote: »

To whom it concerns, I thought I'd keep this thread updated with my progress.

I went on a 2.5hr journey over Christmas and the car (Mk5 2.0 TDi) went into limp mode 3 times, so I figured I can no longer tell myself I'm looking after this car unless I get this finally sorted. In summary, the problem now is that the car is going into limp mode when it's been on the road for a while (1hr +) and I ask too much of it in a high gear. For example this could be traveling at 95kph in 5th gear and then accelerating, or going up a steep hill in as low as 4th gear. I also have one of those token 'whine' noises (Example I found on Youtube) that a lot of Volkswagen's have - and I think it has been getting worse over the last couple of months. In terms of fixing, my local certified Volkswagen mechanic has advised that a turbo replacement is required and have quoted nearly €1300 for parts and labor.

Last night I met an independent mechanic for a second opinion. He read the error codes and while I cant tell you precisely which one, it's a boost problem, the vanes in the turbo are not releasing when the power is taken off. When the car is being exerted like I described above a sensor 'realizes' there is a problem and puts the car into limp mode. He also thinks the vanes being stuck closed is causing the whine.

He's going to take the car for a while later in the week and try and get in at the turbo for a proper look and then present me with my options. I can already tell he's finding it difficult to go against the advice I already have on replacing the turbo, he's generally against reconditioned turbos as he thinks they have a high failure rate. Hopefully he can at least give me a cheaper alternative.

Anyone out there have any knowledge/experiences with these vanes staying shut?

The vanes sooting up is what I mentioned in my post a month ago It's definitely a good place to start. If that turns out to be the problem, then you can keep it at bay by making sure the car is driven properly i.e. use all the revs in gear periodically when the engine has warmed up.

It's overly gentle driving that allows the soot to get caught in the vanes and bake in. Giving it the beans once in a while increases the exhaust pressure and drives it out before it sticks in there.

ardle1

Did you check all the Return Valves, N75 I think is turbo return and N18 is EGR return... Not to familiar with your particular car, .. is anti shudder(above egr) operational? To check... Open drivers window with car running, pop bonnet, stand outside and turn ignition off, .... observe if anti shudder activates!! all these and many more, can initiate safe/limp mode... Good Luck!

intellectual dosser

Thanks for the responses all. I do have faith in the independent mechanic he comes highly recommended by friends of mine and I honestly don't see him trying to shake me down. I might however print off this thread and bring it when I meet him at the weekend!

intellectual dosser

For anyone interested in the conclusion here, the turbo went BOOM on Friday. I only have myself to blame, all the signs were there and I procrastinated, I had actually made peace with replacing the turbo (cost wise), I just wish I had it done before it went altogether.

My only concern is that I've heard fragments from a blown turbo can get sucked into the engine. I'd say the car was running for 3 seconds after I realised the problem. I did however foolishly turn it on again for 2 seconds just to see would a restart make any different (habits of limp mode). So in total the car was running for 5 seconds after it blew.

My understanding is that if these fragments did get sucked in, it can be very hard to recover the engine. The mechanics I deal with say they cant be sure without the engine running (for which they need to fit a new turbo), they did confirm that a lot of fragments fell out when they opened it up. Anyone have any advice here - the cost of replacing is huge, like I said I'll do it, but I'd like some peace of mind that it will work.

Chimaera

Pull the intercooler first and see if anything got caught there. If so, then you could have fragments further on. You should ask your mechanic to look inside the cylinders with a borescope before doing any more. This can be done by just removing the glowplugs.

intellectual dosser

Chimaera wrote: »

Pull the intercooler first and see if anything got caught there. If so, then you could have fragments further on. You should ask your mechanic to look inside the cylinders with a borescope before doing any more. This can be done by just removing the glowplugs.

Thanks Chimaera, I went down and asked them this. They say they'll do it and take the cost off the turbo replacement given that its all part of the process anyway.

They seem to be more confident of me that it will be fine. They said the fragments arent the problem, but a small nut that sometimes comes off and causes problems.

intellectual dosser

And to close it off (I hope), I got the car back yesterday.

New turbo fitted and so far it's running well. I discussed best methods of driving with the mechanic but he thinks it was well on it;s way to a blowout when I bought it, he said it really disintegrated . I'll be taking it handy on this one regardless and hopefully the car will run for many hundreds of thousands of miles more!

Thanks to all who contributed here.