Question re Lift not working in Apartment Block

fonzy157

Does any one know the legality about having a working lift in an apartment block?
The lift in my apartment block is broken, and according to management company it needs expensive parts to fix it.The Management company say that there is not enough funds to pay for these parts. Just wondering can they get away with not fixing it or does it have to be repaired?
The idea of hawking everything up flights of stairs long term does not appeal!
Many thanks.

djimi

How do you expect them to fix it if they dont have the funds?

fonzy157

no doubt,all apartments will have to contribute to these costs, and ive no problem doing that.Or they can use some of the sinking fund etc.
Im just interested to know legally do you need a working lift, what about someone with a disability etc who cannot walk up flights of stairs ??

Paulw

I would assume that the problem is that not all unit owners are paying their fees, hence lack of funds, and possibly not enough of a sinking fund.

What were your accounts like at your last AGM? How was the sinking fund then?

fonzy157

amazingly, vast majority of owners now have paid up, so there is no issue there.
But in the 1st few years , they had huge losses and are still trying to claw back ever since, so not overly healthy accounts. Haven't had AGM this year yet so not sure of sinking fund amount yet but its low.

Paulw

If the funds are low, and the repairs are expensive, then there is not much that can be done until the funds are available.

Lantus

Lifts are horrendously expensive items. They require expensive annual maintenance contracts as well as a statutory visit every 6 months, phone lines, cleaning and power As lifts can easily cost 40-60k the parts are also expensive.

One way to avoid expensive part replacement is to get the high end annual maintenance package that includes a lot of parts.

Obviously where service payment is lacking then it places severe stress on the directors.

Directors first and foremost have a duty of care to all residents and health and safety must come before convenience. They cannot purchase a part at the expense of the block insurance policy for example. The part may take several weeks to order so even if they have the money there could be a delay.

Obviously the ONLY money a company has is that which is paid to it by its members. The directors cannot magic money out of the air.

I would check the proposed budgets to see what is included on an annual basis for the lift and also the specific sinking fund items as well to see where you stand. If it doesn't then request that the directors develop this to ensure all elements are included.

StillWaters

I suppose it could be argued that someone with a disability bought their apartment on the understanding the complex was accessible, and make a case on that basis. However, if the funds are simply not there I can't see how practicably it can be resolved unless everyone agrees to a hike in management fees.

The_Conductor

fonzy157 wrote: »

amazingly, vast majority of owners now have paid up, so there is no issue there.
But in the 1st few years , they had huge losses and are still trying to claw back ever since, so not overly healthy accounts. Haven't had AGM this year yet so not sure of sinking fund amount yet but its low.

What/How were there huge losses in the first few years? Why have these losses not been recuperated? In the first few years a developer would normally be liable for any structural issues that might arise- and the unit owners for ongoing management/maintenance issues. What occurred that massive losses were incurred- and indeed, how were these massive losses funded?

It sounds like your current issues are significantly the result of poor management and/or accounts from years ago- you urgently need to find out what these issues are- and how they can be rectified for once and for all. Further- you need to familiarise yourself with the rules governing multi-unit developments, and the suggested sink fund contributions- as it sounds like you're not paying sufficiently towards the upkeep of the development. Just because you can get away with lower management charges- doesn't necessarily mean its a good idea in the longer run. Most companies will have a specific budget for lifts and/or other machinery (such as security gates etc) that they insist has a separate budget associated with it- given the potential for ridiculous costs. A one off hit for 15-20k with a lift- could foresee-ably happen every few years- or as mentioned above, you could alleviate this by taking out a good management contract- however one way or the other, you'd still need a bi-annual inspection, along with the phone line etc for it.

Lifts cost ridiculous money (as do security gates etc). If you don't factor this into annual budgets- certainly, it will come back to bite you, one way or the other.........

athtrasna

fonzy157 wrote: »

no doubt,all apartments will have to contribute to these costs, and ive no problem doing that.Or they can use some of the sinking fund etc.
Im just interested to know legally do you need a working lift, what about someone with a disability etc who cannot walk up flights of stairs ??

It's not a legal requirement that apartment blocks must have lifts. The interesting situation arises where someone may have bought an apartment due to the lift - it depends on the wording of the leases but I doubt a working lift could be a requirement where funds do not cover same.

OP I would look at trying to get an EGM called to review the financial situation with a view to bringing in an additional once off levy to cover lift repairs. That's what it would come down to if the accounts do not have adequate funds to pay for it.

fonzy157

thanks for all replies, good to get additional information.
To answer some questions,

the huge initial losses were due to not having full occupancy as it was a new development (only 6years old). I wasn't even living here at the time, so not sure why/how they built up etc
I do now that they increased the lift cover last year but unsure at the moment if it covers parts etc

The girl from management company who is in charge is out sick till next week, so hopefully get more details then.

Kosseegan

fonzy157 wrote: »

Does any one know the legality about having a working lift in an apartment block?
The lift in my apartment block is broken, and according to management company it needs expensive parts to fix it.The Management company say that there is not enough funds to pay for these parts. Just wondering can they get away with not fixing it or does it have to be repaired?
The idea of hawking everything up flights of stairs long term does not appeal!
Many thanks.

Even if it was a legal requirement what could you do about it?
Seek an injunction against the management company? Make it insolvent so it has to be wound up and everybody loses title to their apartment?
Disabled people would buy on the ground floor as they would not want to depend upon a lift. There is always the possibility of a power cut not to mention the best of lifts fails occasionally.

fonzy157

Ive no intention in taking out an injuction or anything of that nature. I was just curious to see if the lift had to be fixed etc. I think if you lived on the 4th floor and had to carry everything up several flights of stairs , you'd be curious to.

Outkast_IRE

In terms of legality unless it states something in your contract about the lifts, then you have nothing to fight them for.

Its not a fight you can win, the local authority will only get involved if its issues with fire escapes and fire safety, etc etc.

Victor

athtrasna wrote: »

It's not a legal requirement that apartment blocks must have lifts.

Wrong. the Building Regulations require buildings with more than than three floors or six apartments to have lists (terraces of duplexes bypass this).

A lift means a working lift. However, enforcement proceedings by the council are unlikely to take place for short-term outages.