fantasy fight Ward V Calzaghe

hawkeyethenoo

who would win?i think ward is going to be a pound for pound best for many years think he would win a decision. would be a cracker though.

cowzerp

Ward would make Calzaghe look silly.

walshb

Razor thin. Both have so much to bring. Neither gets stopped. It could boil down to who has the better tactics. Can Ward spoil and smother Joe's volume? Can Joe outwork Ward for a win? I will go with Joe on a close win. He is that bit busier, also he is a little rougher and bigger. This could see the win.

Jayob10

cowzerp wrote: »

Ward would make Calzaghe look silly.

No chance its that easy in fairness

I tip Ward to win a very close decision

cowzerp

Calzahghe's busyness would be the very reason Ward would whoop him

boxer.fan

Froch put up a reasonable fight against Ward & I don't remember him ever being in serious trouble. With this in mind, I always thought Calzaghe would have too much for Froch, so this leads me to think that Calzaghe would be an excellent match for Ward and he would have a 50/50 chance of the win.

A lot would come down to where the fight was held too I think.

walshb

I cannot see how Ward whoops Joe. I cannot see how Joe whoops Ward. Nothing from either would indicate a clear win. Both were that good, clever, resourceful and versatile.

FTA69

Ward would win in my opinion. Calzaghe has excellent ringcraft as well as being durable and an all-round great boxer but Ward is just ridiculous like. He operates on such a different level from most other boxers and I think Calzaghe would leave himself open for counters all day long. He would be a tougher proposition for Ward than Froch was but the fight would go much the same way as I think.

walshb

FTA69 wrote: »

Ward would win in my opinion. Calzaghe has excellent ringcraft as well as being durable and an all-round great boxer but Ward is just ridiculous like. He operates on such a different level from most other boxers and I think Calzaghe would leave himself open for counters all day long. He would be a tougher proposition for Ward than Froch was but the fight would go much the same way as I think.

You don't think Joe would adapt IF he was getting tagged by counters? He was very versatile. More so than Froch and Kessler, plus he has much better feet and hand speed. A much more troublesome puzzle to Ward, who was no killer. He has a wee size advantage too, and in close I think he is more than a match for Ward.

FTA69

walshb wrote: »

You don't think Joe would adapt IF he was getting tagged by counters? He was very versatile. More so than Froch and Kessler, plus he has much better feet and hand speed. A much more troublesome puzzle to Ward, who was no killer. He has a wee size advantage too, and in close I think he is more than a match for Ward.

Maybe, would he be able to pin Ward in close though? It'd be a great fight no doubt but I've been more impressed with Ward than Calzaghe from what I've seen of both fighters.

eagle eye

Mickey Ward is my favourite fighter of all time. I am not saying he is the best of all time or even close to it but I loved watching him fight and got to see him live six times when I lived in Boston.

I don't think he would match Joe though, I think Calzaghe just has too much for him. I think it goes the distance but I see Joe winning it on points by about four rounds. He is just too classy for Mickey imo.

BGozIE

eagle eye wrote: »

Mickey Ward is my favourite fighter of all time. I am not saying he is the best of all time or even close to it but I loved watching him fight and got to see him live six times when I lived in Boston.

I don't think he would match Joe though, I think Calzaghe just has too much for him. I think it goes the distance but I see Joe winning it on points by about four rounds. He is just too classy for Mickey imo.

Hold on, are we talking about ANDRE ward here? I don't think the OP was referring to mickey ward.

PS Andre ward makes joe calzaghe look fairly silly and wins a clear decision if not a late tko

Dick phelan

BGozIE wrote: »

Hold on, are we talking about ANDRE ward here? I don't think the OP was referring to mickey ward.

PS Andre ward makes joe calzaghe look fairly silly and wins a clear decision if not a late tko

How anyone can think Ward makes Joe look silly is beyond me, listen Calzaghe is one of the greatest fighters to ever come out of Britain, he didn't go and beat Bhop for no reason, and dont give me the bs of Bhop was way past it, ffs he is a champion today nearly 5 years on from when joe beat him, Calzaghe beat Kessler just as convincing as Ward did when Kessler was a better fight then he was V Ward, for the fight itself yes its close but i think Calzaghe wins, he could adapt so well to any problems and to any style i think his workrate wins a close but deserved decision, dont forget Calzaghe aint exactly slow either so i dont see how Ward can outclass him really, yes Ward could win but whoever wins it is a close fight my view 60/ 40 Calzaghe

BGozIE

Dick phelan wrote: »

How anyone can think Ward makes Joe look silly is beyond me, listen Calzaghe is one of the greatest fighters to ever come out of Britain, he didn't go and beat Bhop for no reason, and dont give me the bs of Bhop was way past it, ffs he is a champion today nearly 5 years on from when joe beat him, Calzaghe beat Kessler just as convincing as Ward did when Kessler was a better fight then he was V Ward, for the fight itself yes its close but i think Calzaghe wins, he could adapt so well to any problems and to any style i think his workrate wins a close but deserved decision, dont forget Calzaghe aint exactly slow either so i dont see how Ward can outclass him really, yes Ward could win but whoever wins it is a close fight my view 60/ 40 Calzaghe

I just don't rate calzaghe as highly as some people do. No doubt he was a good fighter but I think ward is in a different league.

Now to your points...the hopkins fight was so so close it really could have gone the other way. I don't know what makes you say kessler was a better fighter when joe fought him? Where's the logic behind your thinking there?

I agree joe had a great work-rate and decent speed. He's technique is nowhere near what ward brings. Most of joes punches are pitter patter shots and he just swarms opponents with volume shots but yes I do think he is a good fighter just not on wards level.

Calzaghe dodged too many people also, and you can have no argument for that? If you do I really wanna hear it. He dodged Glenn johnson for the best part of 8 years (supposedly a fight couldnt be made 3 times). He was "afraid" of flying so he never fought Roy Jones Jr in his PRIME. Some people argue he never fought hopkins n his prime, but as you say hopkins still fights, apparently though Joe flat refused a rematch, after a really close fight you have to question that. He also avoided antonio tarver, kelly pavlik and chad dawson (although a lot of people avoided dawson as he was a young fighter and unknown up and comer) People also claim he avoided Froch.

Anyway, he is a good fighter, one of the best of that era. But imo ward is in a different class to joe.

Thanks for reading

FTA69

eagle eye wrote: »

Mickey Ward is my favourite fighter of all time. I am not saying he is the best of all time or even close to it but I loved watching him fight and got to see him live six times when I lived in Boston.

I don't think he would match Joe though, I think Calzaghe just has too much for him. I think it goes the distance but I see Joe winning it on points by about four rounds. He is just too classy for Mickey imo.

Mickey Ward was a welterweight, Calzaghe was super middle/light heavy. It wouldn't be a match even made.

BGozIE

Something I forgot to add...

At 168, out of Calzaghe's 21 defenses only FIVE of his opponents were top-10 super-middleweights at the time Calzaghe fought them. It took him 9 years to have a unification bout...I mean come on..

He was a good fighter, but an extremely well managed one!

Dick phelan

BGozIE wrote: »

I just don't rate calzaghe as highly as some people do. No doubt he was a good fighter but I think ward is in a different league.

Now to your points...the hopkins fight was so so close it really could have gone the other way. I don't know what makes you say kessler was a better fighter when joe fought him? Where's the logic behind your thinking there?

I agree joe had a great work-rate and decent speed. He's technique is nowhere near what ward brings. Most of joes punches are pitter patter shots and he just swarms opponents with volume shots but yes I do think he is a good fighter just not on wards level.

Calzaghe dodged too many people also, and you can have no argument for that? If you do I really wanna hear it. He dodged Glenn johnson for the best part of 8 years (supposedly a fight couldnt be made 3 times). He was "afraid" of flying so he never fought Roy Jones Jr in his PRIME. Some people argue he never fought hopkins n his prime, but as you say hopkins still fights, apparently though Joe flat refused a rematch, after a really close fight you have to question that. He also avoided antonio tarver, kelly pavlik and chad dawson (although a lot of people avoided dawson as he was a young fighter and unknown up and comer) People also claim he avoided Froch.

Anyway, he is a good fighter, one of the best of that era. But imo ward is in a different class to joe.

Thanks for reading

Ok firstly i think Kessler was quicker when he fought Joe then he was V Ward, yes the Hopkins fight was close but do you really think Calzaghe would get a lucky decision in the other mans back yard.

I agree when you say that Joe didnt fight the best but i think that was on both sides Joe and whoever not taking the fights, I read that Hopkins was offered the fight and had actually agreed to it but then came back days later asking for double the original purse agree'd. Calzaghe didn't want to lose his unbeaten record, while the other fighters didnt want to take the high risk low reward fight V Joe thats my view on that.

About him not fighting Dawson or Froch, i think the reason there is simple
both where unknown really not big names. its like what Calzaghe said the other night about Frcoh not fighting Groves ect. Calzaghe was coming to the end of his career and he wanted the big money big name fighters reality is Froch and Dawson wouldnt have made financial sense to him.

gene_tunney

Ward by clear decision. Not a shutout though

walshb

Calzaghe fought the best in his era. Jones was not at SMW when Joe was at his best. Toney was gone form SMW. Hop was happy to feast on blown up welters at MW. Who exactly was Joe ducking?

As to the style and technique of Ward and Joe. Ward is the more text book boxer/puncher, but that doesn't guarantee a win, nor does it make Joe lok "silly," as some of you claim. Many of Joe's victims had better punching technique. They still got well beaten.

I have no issue with anyone calling this for Ward, but how folks are claiming that it's an easy win is just baffling. When was Joe ever made look ordinary? He would have won that super 6 tournament as well. He would have beaten any of the men there. Him and Ward in the final. I am fairly confident that he presents a lot more issues than a Froch or Kessler.

T-K-O

cowzerp wrote: »

Ward would make Calzaghe look silly.

This was said about a lot of Calzaghes opponents. Joe had this habit of finding a way. Im not saying he beats Ward but I don't see Ward beating him up either.

badabing106

Kesler was in his prime against calzaghe , not against ward .It is easier for a great fighter like Ward to beat a great fighter like Kessler , knowing this.

DaithiMa

I do not rate Calzaghe as an all time great like so many do. He was protected, that is why he remained undefeated. Kessler was the one big name he fought who was at their peak-the rest were all past their best, and in the case of the Hopkins fight, the decision could have gone either way. I think the fact that he wouldn't give Bhop a rematch says it all really.
If you look through his record the absence of elite level opponents at their peak is painfully obvious. Eubank? Was past it and lost his next two fights to Carl thompson. Robin Reid? Don't make me laugh. Manfredo jr.? Same story. If he had fought and beaten Jones jr around the turn of the century, when both fighters were near their peaks,then yeah you would have to hand it to him and say he deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as some of the all time greats. Unfortunately though he was more concerned with beating the likes of Richie Woodall, Will McIntyre and Rick Thornberry at around that time.
Oh and I think Ward would beat him every time. Ward is the real deal. Going to be one of the best fighters of his generation. Mayweather mark II minus the attitude.

T-K-O

You should note that 5 years on B-Hop is STILL beating the best guys around.

I was never a fan of Joe until his latter years. I was also that guy who said he dodged this guy or that. However looking back with some perspective Calazghe deserves way more credit than he gets. Google the top ten guys in 2007/2008 You cannot seriously say he was dodging ANYONE on that list

Ward could go on to be something special but its early days. I can guarantee you that if Calazghe was still around and in his prime Ward would not come over and fight, hell, he wont even come over to fight a guy he beat 12-0.

cowzerp

Calzaghe is 1 of those that many didn't rate and when he was gone suddenly they say he was magnificent. He was good when fighting human punchbags, he should have been warned/disqualified in certain matches for his slapping, in certain matches he won by tko while illegally slapping opponent and also to the back of the head.

This century's rocky Marciano. Overhyped and fought no great opposition

T-K-O

wow poor ol Kessler - now demoted to punch bag

Dick phelan

T-K-O wrote: »

You should note that 5 years on B-Hop is STILL beating the best guys around.

I was never a fan of Joe until his latter years. I was also that guy who said he dodged this guy or that. However looking back with some perspective Calazghe deserves way more credit than he gets. Google the top ten guys in 2007/2008 You cannot seriously say he was dodging ANYONE on that list

Ward could go on to be something special but its early days. I can guarantee you that if Calazghe was still around and in his prime Ward would not come over and fight, hell, he wont even come over to fight a guy he beat 12-0.

Agree totally seriously when people say to me he ducked Glen Johnson now dont get me wrong Johnson is a tough warrior but seriously does anyone really think he beats Calzaghe people say he ducked Froch, why would he duck someone who lost to Kessler who Joe beat well, Against Lacey he put on a clinic a total shutout yes you can say Lacey was overrated ect but my honest view is Calzaghe destroyed him as a fighter and he was never the same after, Also it wouldnt have mattered if Eubank had been in his prime Joe would still win as he would win against Benn Collins or any of the other SMW at that time. The only fighter i would confidently say beats him is Jones but Jones is easily a top ten p4p ATG so no shame in that.

T-K-O

Dick phelan wrote: »

Agree totally seriously when people say to me he ducked Glen Johnson now dont get me wrong Johnson is a tough warrior but seriously does anyone really think he beats Calzaghe people say he ducked Froch, why would he duck someone who lost to Kessler who Joe beat well, Against Lacey he put on a clinic a total shutout yes you can say Lacey was overrated ect but my honest view is Calzaghe destroyed him as a fighter and he was never the same after, Also it wouldnt have mattered if Eubank had been in his prime Joe would still win as he would win against Benn Collins or any of the other SMW at that time. The only fighter i would confidently say beats him is Jones but Jones is easily a top ten p4p ATG so no shame in that.

Calzaghe ducks Johnson :rolleyes:. The Road Warrior was just that, he was not on the level of Joe.

Everyone became an expert after the Lacey fight. Lets be honest here. Lacey came over to beat this EuroBum - that is what everyone thought. I'll never forgot that night. A proper schooling if I ever saw one.


This is not official but a quick google yields the following:

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/weblog/news.php?p=9999&more=1

Joe is clearly the best man on that list.

Back then Froch was on the up but he had not arrived. Joe did not duck him it simply wasn't an option. Did Hatton duck Witter??

No he didn't. Witter didnt matter same as Froch (back then)

Frank Gallagher pissed

I think "Irish" Andre Ward wins inside 3 rounds. Sloppy Joe is out of his depth here.

All the coke and hookers surely has an effect on Sloppy Joe. Ward is too fast and just too good. A good fight though between a British ATG and an Irish ATG. Shame it wont happen.

T-K-O

Frank Gallagher pissed wrote: »

I think "Irish" Andre Ward wins inside 3 rounds. Sloppy Joe is out of his depth here.

All the coke and hookers surely has an effect on Sloppy Joe. Ward is too fast and just too good. A good fight though between a British ATG and an Irish ATG. Shame it wont happen.

My apologies in advance but that is utter nonsense.

FTA69

T-K-O wrote: »

Ward could go on to be something special but its early days.

Early days? The man is 29 and he is rated by pretty much everybody as the #2 pound for pound fighter in the world, soon to be #1. He hasn't lost a fight since he was a kid and he utterly p*ssed his way through the Olympics in Athens on his way to a gold medal, beating some people by a margin of 10+ points. Since turning professional he has cleaned out the super-middleweight division and is completely untouchable at that weight. He easily beat Kessler, Froch and Abraham and made them look like complete amateurs at times. He destroyed Chad Dawson.

There's no "could go on to be" about it, Ward is the real deal like.

T-K-O

Calzaghe did the same at SMW and he is called a bum, he also moved up and beat the man at light heavy and still gets no love.


OK point taken. Ward is a brilliant fighter but if he retired tomorrow we would not be talking about him in 10 years time.

Frank Gallagher pissed

T-K-O wrote: »

Calzaghe did the same at SMW and he is called a bum, he also moved up and beat the man at light heavy and still gets no love.


OK point taken. Ward is a brilliant fighter but if he retired tomorrow we would not be talking about him in 10 years time.

Ward beat the man at light heavy in his last fight very convincingly .

Ward will definitely be talked about in ten years, hes only 29. Its possible he could still be fighting in 10 years looking at his style and lack of activity, which prolongs careers.

T-K-O

Frank Gallagher pissed wrote: »

Ward beat the man at light heavy in his last fight very convincingly .

Ward will definitely be talked about in ten years, hes only 29. Its possible he could still be fighting in 10 years looking at his style and lack of activity, which prolongs careers.

Yet Calzaghe is not rated?

I said if he retired tomorrow, we would not be talking about him in 10 years. For what ever reason he has not made that leap

Dick phelan

Well i wouldnt say Ward beat the man at LHW the fight was at SMW not saying Ward wouldnt beat Dawson at LHW but it might make a difference you cant say Ward beat the man at LHW when it wasnt at the weight and Ward is not a LHW champion i fear that Ward may fall to the same fate as RJJ to good for his own sake nobody can touch him yet he gets criticised for how he wins, the reality is i honestly cant see Ward loosing in the next 5 years i cant think of one fighter certainly at SMW who will even give him a close fight, would have loved to see him Vs Hagler and Hearns, i actually think he should move up and fight Hopkins become a champion at 2 weights and also Hopkins being a big name gives him a nice payday and exposure but Hopkins doesnt want any part of Ward unfortuantly, The way i see it when he is finished i think we could well be talking about Ward on the same level as, SRL, Hearns, RJJ and all those greats the man really is that good

walshb

Dick phelan wrote: »

Well i wouldnt say Ward beat the man at LHW the fight was at SMW

So true. Dawson at SMW cannot be used. Ward most likely beats him at 175 lbs as well. Calzaghe beat Hopkins at 175 lbs.

walshb

Ward at 175 lbs vs Hopkins (2008 version @ 175 lbs)?

FTA69

So true. Dawson at SMW cannot be used.

You can't say Ward beat the light-heavy champion but we shouldn't go splitting hairs either. Ward totally dominated Dawson like, completely made him quit. Do people really have a doubt that he'd do the same again if he moved up a weight? The "different weights" argument isn't as relevant when the defeat is as lopsided as that fight was. For instance when Hatton lost to Mayweather we had people declaring Ricky was still the best at ten stone etc and twas at a different weight etc when we all could see that wouldn't have made much of a difference either way.

As for people not talking about Ward in ten years time, that may well be the case but I know I'll be there in ten years telling people that Ward was the best of his generation and unparalleled completely during his career and any proper boxing fan of this time will be as well.

Ward at 175 lbs vs Hopkins (2008 version @ 175 lbs)?

It'd probably be a stinker, hard to tell.

walshb

FTA69 wrote: »

You can't say Ward beat the light-heavy champion but we shouldn't go splitting hairs either. Ward totally dominated Dawson like, completely made him quit. .

Point taken. I agree. For me Ward is a great boxer. Worthy of success in any era at 168-175 lbs.

I posted a fantasy fight for him and Hagler at 168 lbs. I have Ward in that one. UD!

Brad Goodman

Just came across this. So much for "experts" eh?

http://www.boxingscene.com/boxingscene-staff-predictions-jeff-lacy-vs-joe-calzaghe--3266

MAJR

BGozIE wrote: »

Calzaghe dodged too many people also, and you can have no argument for that? If you do I really wanna hear it. He dodged Glenn johnson for the best part of 8 years (supposedly a fight couldnt be made 3 times).

A fight between Johnson and Calzaghe could have happened around 2000 if only Johnson hadn't lost to Ottke, Vanderpool, Branco and Sheika in quick succession and thereby destroying whatever credibility he had at Super Middleweight.

A fight between Johnson and Calzaghe could have happened around 2004 but Calzaghe suffered an injury while training and asked for the fight to be rearranged and Johnson said no. Johnson even went so far as to say he wanted to do with Calzaghe from then on. Instead Johnson had a fight with Roy Jones Jr on the cards.

A fight between Johnson and Calzaghe was pretty much signed and sealed around 2006, the only thing standing between them was Clinton Woods. Johnson had to beat Clinton Woods to make the fight with Calzaghe, Calzaghe had even agreed to move up a division for it, but Johnson lost and the fight was scrapped.

Three times I know of that a fight between Calzaghe and Johnson was on the cards, twice it failed to come to anything because Johnson was defeated by other people and once it failed to happen because Calzaghe was injured and Johnson wasn't going to wait around when he had Jones available.

Johnson is not blameless for the fight not happening, and the failure of the fight to happen cannot be placed solely on Calzaghe for "dodging".

He was "afraid" of flying so he never fought Roy Jones Jr in his PRIME.

Roy Jones in his prime had no interest whatsoever in fighting Calzaghe. He was more interesting in dominating the Light Heavyweights and moving up to win a world title. It was almost a similar situation to the one Jones had with Steve Collins and Darius Michalczewski - there was no call from the fans or the networks in America for Jones to fight any of them so he didn't. Some blame certainly can be placed on Calzaghe's shoulder for doing nothing to get the fight himself - Collins, at least, hounded Jones for years to try and get a fight - but he can hardly be said to have "dodged" a prime Roy Jones if that same prime Roy Jones never had any interest in fighting him anyway.

Some people argue he never fought hopkins n his prime, but as you say hopkins still fights, apparently though Joe flat refused a rematch, after a really close fight you have to question that.

Calzaghe and Hopkins were supposed to fight around 2002/2003, they'd been in negotiations to fight at catchweight and terms had been agreed, but before signing the deal Hopkins came back and demanded more money. Hopkins had discovered that the money he thought he would be earning from a three fight deal which included one against Calzaghe would instead be lining the pockets on Don King and his croneys so he wanted more so that it would actually be financially worthwhile, however the money he was asking for was not possible to provide at the time. Hopkins would also, during this period, price himself out of potential fights with Roy Jones and James Toney.

Calzaghe did not do rematches and never had, the only one he'd ever had as a pro was one the WBO forced upon him. And, given the fact that Hopkins/Calzaghe 1 had been such an ugly and unenjoyable affair, its not really surprising that there was not much call from the fans for Hopkins/Calzaghe 2 at the time. Plus, Calzaghe went into 2008 with plans already laid out to retire once the year was over - he'd told the BBC in October 2007, days before he fought Mikkel Kessler, that he was giving himself one more year then he would retire: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/7064179.stm - and he wanted a fight with Roy Jones, so he didn't really have time to do both and instead chose the bigger money and more fan-friendly fight to go out on.

He also avoided antonio tarver, kelly pavlik and chad dawson (although a lot of people avoided dawson as he was a young fighter and unknown up and comer) People also claim he avoided Froch.

Something always got in the way of Tarver/Calzaghe. Whether it was Tarver choosing Jones instead, or Calzaghe choosing Lacy, or Tarver loosing to Hopkins or Calzaghe retiring after 2008. Again, the failure to make the fight was not a one-sided affair and Tarver has to shoulder some responsibility for it as well.

As far as I know the only overtures for Pavlik/Calzaghe happened in 2008 and you know what happened in 2008? Calzaghe had a close and ugly fight with Hopkins while Pavlik was completely humiliated by Hopkins. Pavlik calling out Calzaghe lost all its credibility when he was so utterly dominated.

Dawson called out Calzaghe in 2008, they talked a bit after Calzaghe beat Jones but Calzaghe chose to stick to his word and walk away so it came to nothing. Dawson just came along too late.

Froch reached the world stage in 2008 winning a title Calzaghe had vacated to move up and called Calzaghe out soon after but Cazlaghe was in a different division, fighting bigger names in bigger fights and was retired after the year was out. Froch, like Dawson, came along too late.