Croke Park 2 talks and proposals of 30 free hours per year

kala85

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/garda-bodies-to-recommend-deal-to-maintain-pay-1.1393097

Proposals to have gardai work an extra 30 hours per year for free, without cutting pay.

What do you think of it?

SB2013

i think it's a crock of ****. But how big a crock depends on how its implemented. If they'll be able to save it up and get you to do 16 hours on halloween when you're supposed to be off then no. If you can work it off in court then that's a bit better.

WilcoOut

take it and run lads!

msg11

Might reduce payable tax on income.. The more hours you work in Ireland the less you get paid the less hours you work the more you get paid.

Hooch

Best deal we could get. We keep our take home pay but have to work three extra shifts (1 of which aint a full shift and the others cant be called upon for Sundays or bank holidays). Cant see a better deal tbh

WilcoOut

i think its a bumper deal for you guys, if i were in you shoes id be signing on the dot ASAP

one question, what way will the hours be worked?

will duties be allocated as siutuations demand? ie will you be pulled in for croker/paddys days

or will it be up to you to arrange it? ie perhaps work an extra hour each shift or work a sat night shift with another unit on your day off

Liamos Dubs

Seems a reasonable compromise give the economic climate were in as most of the undertakings are permanent. The only potential banana skin is the independent review of pay. What if they decide to reduce pay and conditions.....:eek:.

SB2013

Hooch wrote: »

Best deal we could get. We keep our take home pay but have to work three extra shifts (1 of which aint a full shift and the others cant be called upon for Sundays or bank holidays). Cant see a better deal tbh

Forgive me if i don't believe that after what they pulled on Paddys Day. Completely contrary to the working time agreement but it happened anyway. I wouldn't trust management not to abuse it and I wouldn't trust the GRA to stop them.

In any case, unless the other members of 24/7 get a deal I can't see how members could vote for it in good conscience.

Liamos Dubs

WilcoOut wrote: »

i think its a bumper deal for you guys, if i were in you shoes id be signing on the dot ASAP

one question, what way will the hours be worked?

Probably on same basis as Prison Officers O/T arrangements. They have to do approx 7 hours a week over time for "free" before overtime kicks in.

I know they have an annualiSed hours agreement but I think it will along similar lines. There will be no obligation to do o/t on certain days but if you did 50 hours o/t you get paid for 20. Its budget reduction strategy and not deployment initiative.

Heard some talk of o/t being differentiated between voluntary and enforced i.e volunteering to do Croke park on a rest day or having to go to court as a witness on a rest day. Haven't seen the full thing yet and the divil will be in the detail.

WilcoOut

well it would be a crumby deal if they took 30 OT hours off you

if it worked out at working 3 rest days, it would be a good deal

it will be interesting to see what comes out in the small print

Hooch

Your local GRA rep should have the CEC circulated information containing all the details of the deal.

The three days are broken down differently but im not going to go into it here.

Also voluntary OT will be at time and a quarter (like volunteering for Croker) and mandatory OT will be still time and a half (Going to court)

goldie fish

SB2013 wrote: »

Forgive me if i don't believe that after what they pulled on Paddys Day. Completely contrary to the working time agreement but it happened anyway. I wouldn't trust management not to abuse it and I wouldn't trust the GRA to stop them.

In any case, unless the other members of 24/7 get a deal I can't see how members could vote for it in good conscience.

Working time act can see you doing 80 hours straight still. Just means you get to build up loads of TOIL...Yeah you are supposed to take that ASAP, but if there is a big job on, or the unit is short etc etc....

SB2013

goldie fish wrote: »

Working time act can see you doing 80 hours straight still. Just means you get to build up loads of TOIL...Yeah you are supposed to take that ASAP, but if there is a big job on, or the unit is short etc etc....

I was referring to short notice forced overtime.

Liamos Dubs

Again I don't think they are looking for extra shifts from anyone just a reduction in the overtime bill.

Potential-Monke

I'm voting no for the simple fact that there is a part in it about a review board which could potentially destroy our allowences/pay once this deal has run its course. Unless there is further information which hasn't been made available to me. It feels like they're giving this review board a blank slate and ultimate power.

Also, forcing someone to use a leave day to accomodate the WTD for court reasons (ie: working 6 days, court on the 7th, you have to take the 6th as a leave day). That's bull, forcing us to use our own leave to cover their arses??? No thank you.

Plus working for free. Who works for free??? (charities aside)

Maybe we can't do better, but that doesn't mean we should settle for this.

SB2013

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I'm voting no for the simple fact that there is a part in it about a review board which could potentially destroy our allowences/pay once this deal has run its course. Unless there is further information which hasn't been made available to me. It feels like they're giving this review board a blank slate and ultimate power.

Also, forcing someone to use a leave day to accomodate the WTD for court reasons (ie: working 6 days, court on the 7th, you have to take the 6th as a leave day). That's bull, forcing us to use our own leave to cover their arses??? No thank you.

Plus working for free. Who works for free??? (charities aside)

Maybe we can't do better, but that doesn't mean we should settle for this.

The purpose of the review is to incorporate allowances into core pay. This would actually benefit us in the long run as they will be pensionable and overtime will be worth more. We can always fight the review boards recommendations if they are too harsh.

In relation to the leave. The annual leave is being retained at 34 days instead of being reduced to 28 which it should have been to keep things equal under the ten hour shifts. This is to accomodate the times when you will be required to take leave for court. It's also a rare occasion when you will be required to take this leave so you will actually benefit overall.

The thirty hours unpaid overtime will be divided as follows.

• 10 hours to be taken in one hour extensions at the start or end of shift. This is really to cover times when you get stuck at an accident or something. Not a great demand
• A ten hour shift which cannot be done on a Sunday or Bank Holiday.
• A ten hour shift which will be repaid in toil at the rate of time and a half.

So it's actually only one extra shift you will be doing. The other one will be repaid in time off. The other ten hours at the end and start of a shift you've probably done for free already.


It's a good deal and the GRA and AGSI did very well. As long as the other members of the Frontline Alliance get offered a deal I'll be voting yes.

Liamos Dubs

It is an interesting proposal firstly because it reduces pay bill with minimum pain to say we all have to do 30 extra hours the amount of members that do extra hours every roster and don't claim or get paid for them is huge.

It would appear the new roster is here to stay and the review conditions should seem to signal the incorporation of allowances into core pay, no more headlines of Gardai can claim 34 different allowances !

Hope the Garda Inspectorate are listened to as they seem to have some solid suggestions and an annulised hours system would appear to be their favoured option.

Pappa Charlie

I've heard that part of the new deal with Mulvey is that they sign up to agreeing to a further recruitment freeze for the next 3 years, hope that's not the case

carzony

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

I've heard that part of the new deal with Mulvey is that they sign up to agreeing to a further recruitment freeze for the next 3 years, hope that's not the case

Another 3 years? That would leave the guards very, very short on staff i'd imagine?

bravestar

carzony wrote: »

Another 3 years? That would leave the guards very, very short on staff i'd imagine?

No, that's where we are now. It would leave us as an absolute joke.

WilcoOut

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

I've heard that part of the new deal with Mulvey is that they sign up to agreeing to a further recruitment freeze for the next 3 years, hope that's not the case

the gards couldnt hold out under a freeze until the end of 2013 never mind 2016!

pa990

goldie fish wrote: »

..you get to build up loads of TOIL...Yeah you are supposed to take that ASAP...

Toil... I can't even get to take my A/L
When the hell do I take Toil ?

We need more bodies.
There is a steady stream of retirements, noone is working beyond the 30.
Leave is next to impossible to take in a lot of stations.

In my area it's not mathematically possible for everyone to take all their leave due to the limits on how many are allowed off at any one time.

The deal will come back to bite us in the ass.
But unfortunately it's the best our lot could get.

There are OTHER things I could say about LEAVE, but that's not best discussed here.

Taxburden carrier

pa990 wrote: »

Toil... I can't even get to take my A/L
When the hell do I take Toil ?

We need more bodies.
There is a steady stream of retirements, noone is working beyond the 30.
Leave is next to impossible to take in a lot of stations.

In my area it's not mathematically possible for everyone to take all their leave due to the limits on how many are allowed off at any one time.

The deal will come back to bite us in the ass.
But unfortunately it's the best our lot could get.

There are OTHER things I could say about LEAVE, but that's not best discussed here.

It will really come back to bite "us in the private sector" in the ass !

pa990

Taxburden carrier wrote: »

It will really come back to bite "us in the private sector" in the ass !

Us in the public sector pay all the save taxes and have the same (and more) tax deductions as the private sector

Bite my a☆☆

Taxburden carrier

pa990 wrote: »

Us in the public sector pay all the save taxes and have the same (and more) tax deductions as the private sector

Bite my a☆☆

Appreciate the offer

apc

Dont forget the proposed reduction in the tax allowance for Pension payments, 40% down to 20% - Another Pay cut and dont foret the reductions in twilight payments and the 1 hours overtime cut per week affects your pension and dont be surprised if they come back for some of your allowances as allowed for in the HRA