Any other politicians willing to engage in debate?

PaulGogartyTD

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1405

I am using this username as it was the one given to me when I agreed to participate in what now appears to be an unprecedented and extensive one-off political discussion covering a huge range of topics raised by boards.ie members. This took a fair whack of personal time on my end, nearly two full days if I recall, but I tried to engage as comprehensively as possible, given other constraints. Boards.ie members also engaged in a positive and constructive way, whatever their personal opinions before or after the debate, which was to be very much welcomed.

Now I don't think any other elected rep has engaged in such a way since. My question is, have they been asked? I think the discussion material gets more interesting with time and would be interesting to archive a few more people.

This is not an invitation for the inevitable smart assed comments, trolling or personal insults from a small minority, which will be ignored in any event, merely a genuine observation. I am no longer a TD and will not be posting with this username, but I feel the political process could do with greater levels of engagement online as well as offline.

Perhaps this thread will lead to some suggestions about who should be involved in the next debate and what topics should be covered.

Best wishes,

Paul Gogarty

hyperborean

PaulGogartyTD wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1405

I am using this username as it was the one given to me when I agreed to participate in what now appears to be an unprecedented and extensive one-off political discussion covering a huge range of topics raised by boards.ie members. This took a fair whack of personal time on my end, nearly two full days if I recall, but I tried to engage as comprehensively as possible, given other constraints. Boards.ie members also engaged in a positive and constructive way, whatever their personal opinions before or after the debate, which was to be very much welcomed.

Now I don't think any other elected rep has engaged in such a way since. My question is, have they been asked? I think the discussion material gets more interesting with time and would be interesting to archive a few more people.

This is not an invitation for the inevitable smart assed comments, trolling or personal insults from a small minority, which will be ignored in any event, merely a genuine observation. I am no longer a TD and will not be posting with this username, but I feel the political process could do with greater levels of engagement online as well as offline.

Perhaps this thread will lead to some suggestions about who should be involved in the next debate and what topics should be covered.

Best wishes,

Paul Gogarty

I very much doubt that any career politicians would be stupid enough to try and engage with the boards tribe, career policians have to avoid answering questions not engage in proper debates, when you answer a question and it becomes public record then you have to back it up,

I think the green party were naive in thinking that honesty and integrity would help them get what they needed in office,

AlekSmart

hyperborean wrote: »

I very much doubt that any career politicians would be stupid enough to try and engage with the boards tribe, career policians have to avoid answering questions not engage in proper debates, when you answer a question and it becomes public record then you have to back it up,

I think the green party were naive in thinking that honesty and integrity would help them get what they needed in office,

I don't know about that.....Leo Varadakar appears hugely receptive to the lure of public debate..?

(Ok...perhaps not quite the example best suited ?)

DeVore

I have to say Mr Gogarty, that I wouldnt have been much of a fan of yours before the thread but subsequently I think much better of you for at least having the guts to engage and state your case and your opinions. I still dont agree with all of them but thats ok, thats politics. Fair play on engaging.

The only other politician (to my recollection) we have managed to engage with has been Stephen Donnelly. We have issued invites to a number and were on the verge of doing one with Gerry Adams but after we sent him the list of questions from the site, he developed an unfortunate flu and wasnt able to participate.

We had some of the presidential candidates do video interviews with Dav who posed questions from the forum. Most were ameniable to it, but some werent.

In my naivety, when I first formulated the idea for Boards, it was built on the forum of Pompeii after a visit there. Every day the populace would gather in the forum and discuss matters arising. Anyone could get up and speak and the leaders/politicians of the time attended too. I thought that all that was missing was the collaborative space ... since 4 million people cant fit into Croke Park , somewhere online seemed like a great opportunity to return to this sort of national debate. Like I said, naive.

What actually seems to be the case, and was shown at the end of the last government, is that the politicians are quite happy with the state of affairs where they have to answer us and engage with us as little as possible. The people, it would seem, are a nuisance who have to be pandered to every few years at election time and told whatever the **** will get us to vote for them (cf: Rabbitte's "sure isnt that what you say at election time").

When offered a genuine chance to interact in a reasonable manner (you must admit Mr Gogarty, you weren't savaged half as bad as you probably expected ), our politicians have no desire to talk to "the little people"....

...Its not election time.

DeVore

ps: You are entitled, and welcome, to use that account. The only difference between it and any other account is that its verified (meaning: we have confirmed that you were personally issued the password for it).

Dav

I'd like to add to what Tom said by expanding on the idea somewhat.

We would love to hear from more politicians be they currently serving or former TDs like Mr Gogarty. The only requirement we have is that they talk to us in the office to verify who they are and so that we can give them a Verified Account like Mr Gogarty's.

Pride Fighter

I've always been a fan of green politics. Would always give them a high preference, a 2 or a 3. Last election that went down to a 6 or a 7. I will give them a higher preference next time.

I've always had a soft spot for the Greens, if you dont mind can I ask some questions?

How are things in the Green Party if you dont mind me asking?
Seeing as the party has lost its state funding, is the Green Party struggling financially?

I ask this as I would not like to see the Greens go. Unlike the PD's you're still fighting for what you believe in despite the huge obstacles against you and I applaud that.

If I can ask you questions personally, maybe you will answer?

Do you plan on running for the Green Party in the council elections in 2014?

How is the music career going?

Good luck in the future.

Grudaire

I don't think that Paul is a member of the Greens anymore(? wikipedia agrees with me!)


I can tell you that the Green Party has had to become quite frugal, that said there is definitely life left in the party.

In both bye-elections the party has seen some recovery in votes.

RATM

DeVore wrote: »

In my naivety, when I first formulated the idea for Boards, it was built on the forum of Pompeii after a visit there. Every day the populace would gather in the forum and discuss matters arising. Anyone could get up and speak and the leaders/politicians of the time attended too. I thought that all that was missing was the collaborative space ... since 4 million people cant fit into Croke Park , somewhere online seemed like a great opportunity to return to this sort of national debate. Like I said, naive.

I don't think you were being naive, moreso that politicians were being spineless to an extent. But of the 166 of them some (like Paul) must have the bottle and the conviction of their opinions to post on a public forum. Thousands of Irish people are online everyday debating political issues so I don't see why our politicians shouldn't be either.

I still think it is a good idea but that it might be in need of some structure. If you could get one TD from each of the main parties (and an independent or two) and then set up a 5 way debate on a topical issue of the day I think it could work very well. It would have to be TD's only on the thread as otherwise all the party hacks would bail in to back up their TD's viewpoint, whether right or wrong, and could derail the whole thing. The thread could be left open for one or two weeks so TD's have the time to respond to other TD's points. After two weeks is up move on to the next topical subject. Economy aside the social topics I'd love to see debated are-

Abortion
Gay Adoption
Stem Cell Research
Legalising Vs prohibition of Marijuana
Reform of the PR STV electoral system

4 or 5 TD's debating those issues amongst each other would bring a lot of interest. I'm sure when the TD's see how many views the thread get they would be positive about the exposure it gives them. Please do reconsider it DeVore, I feel that if the right structure is applied and you have 4-5 willing participants it could make for a very interesting and engaging thread.

PaulGogartyTD

I can't use this username for posts in the future as I am not a TD. But I will answer your questions on this occasion. Thank you for your courtesy.

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I've always been a fan of green politics. Would always give them a high preference, a 2 or a 3. Last election that went down to a 6 or a 7. I will give them a higher preference next time.

I've always had a soft spot for the Greens, if you dont mind can I ask some questions?

How are things in the Green Party if you dont mind me asking?
Seeing as the party has lost its state funding, is the Green Party struggling financially?

I keep an eye on the party and meet up with members, but I did not rejoin following the 2011 election. You can't have a different perspective on things if you don't change the scenery. But yes I would argue the party is struggling financially.

I ask this as I would not like to see the Greens go. Unlike the PD's you're still fighting for what you believe in despite the huge obstacles against you and I applaud that.

If I can ask you questions personally, maybe you will answer?

Do you plan on running for the Green Party in the council elections in 2014?

I don't know. First I have to decide if I will run. Then whether to run as Independent or Green or a new party. I hate what some independents stand for, the mé féin always opposing, look-at-me-how-great-am-i mentality, that isn't confined of course to non party politics).

I have only ever been a member of one political party, the Green Party. I want to stay Green and believe in its founding principles (however archaic they are in presentation) but the party needs a radical change both in terms of its operations and its perception by the ordinary people (rightly and wrongly).

I don't see this happening right now, but am willing to give it a lash. I would only get involved again long term if it were possible to transform the party into something meaningful, dynamic and capable of implementing real change while also reflecting Irish society. You can and must lead, but you must also listen. The party was seen as more interested in concepts and animals than people. Mightn't always have been true, but perceptions come from a misunderstanding and that misunderstanding shouldn't have been allowed happen in the first place and now has to be shifted radically or else it will always be there. This requires several things which, if I do get involved long term, I would have to sell to members.

The other alternative would be a new party and if I won the lotto tomorrow I would either look at forming such an organisation or transforming the Green Party.

I won't know for definite what I am doing politically until next year.

How is the music career going?

I made an album, which I am very happy with considering the tight budget. am still releasing singles and enjoy the process. My next single, the remixed "Radio (When I Listen To)" is out on 17 June.

It's enjoyable but not profitable to date. Being known through politics has proven to be a slight disadvantage on balance. Some people say I am lucky to get coverage compared to unknown artists and that this is unfair on them. I would say back that yes I get occasional coverage, but mostly it is in fields of media that are not directly related to music.

All the bits and pieces about former TD doing music, while nice, don't help sell music. The radio current affairs shows, if you are polite and well mannered and honest might get more people to think positively of you as a person (versus some of the myths out there), which might help in politics, but it definitely won't imprint a song on their consciousness with one play!

Nor will a piece about music on the likes of the journal.ie help sell stuff as the people reading about it are not primarily interested in music when they are reading. A couple of negative comments (the most likely to comment are always negative) creates a kind of a herd mentality where it's open season and music rarely comes into it!

Short of X-Factor (let's not go there), only regular airplay sells music for someone trying to break into the industry. It is damned hard to get regular airplay without employing a plugger or being pushed by a record company.
That's for all recording artists, not just me.

However being a former TD is not cool when you are trying to get people to push music, especially music media, so you get a lot of ignores and people can never really judge music on its merits because it is already being filtered through a prism no matter how you try to block it.

That's why I would have liked to have been totally anonymous (hence the stage name, His Sweet Surprise). It would have been nice to try and make waves without the stigma of being looked upon as a joke in some circles, but I acknowledge I would still have had the same problems regarding getting airplay etc.

That's why I felt most fulfilled when comments were about music and nothing else. If someone in the industry said they were 'pleasantly surprised' that can be taken as a positive even if it shows their expectations were low to begin with!

What I liked personally was not big mentions online or on current affairs shows, which I got several times. What most floated my boat was genuine musical stuff, eg
a) being asked onto a show on LMFM with the presenter at the time not knowing who I was;
b) Having my song selected as single of the week on the Drivetime show in Ocean FM and that song hitting No1 at least on the 7Digital download charts; and
c) Being asked to perform my single live on Phantom FM, just me and guitarist.

Good luck in the future.
Thanks.

PaulGogartyTD

RATM wrote: »

I don't think you were being naive, moreso that politicians were being spineless to an extent. But of the 166 of them some (like Paul) must have the bottle and the conviction of their opinions to post on a public forum. Thousands of Irish people are online everyday debating political issues so I don't see why our politicians shouldn't be either.

I still think it is a good idea but that it might be in need of some structure. If you could get one TD from each of the main parties (and an independent or two) and then set up a 5 way debate on a topical issue of the day I think it could work very well. It would have to be TD's only on the thread as otherwise all the party hacks would bail in to back up their TD's viewpoint, whether right or wrong, and could derail the whole thing. The thread could be left open for one or two weeks so TD's have the time to respond to other TD's points. After two weeks is up move on to the next topical subject. Economy aside the social topics I'd love to see debated are-

Abortion
Gay Adoption
Stem Cell Research
Legalising Vs prohibition of Marijuana
Reform of the PR STV electoral system

4 or 5 TD's debating those issues amongst each other would bring a lot of interest. I'm sure when the TD's see how many views the thread get they would be positive about the exposure it gives them. Please do reconsider it DeVore, I feel that if the right structure is applied and you have 4-5 willing participants it could make for a very interesting and engaging thread.

It might be worth a try again, perhaps with a formal invitation to individuals... Good luck and thanks for discussing!

Sully

Hey Paul! Any chance of a signed copy of your debut single?