Am I mad to leave my job

LegacyUser

Hi all

Some advice or input on this would be great.

I'm wondering whether or not I am absolutely crazy to be making plans to leave my job.

I'm a teacher, and have been on my own hours in a very good school for the last 3 years. Next year, which is the year I will be entitled to qualify for CID (Contract of Indefinite Duration - as close to permanency as there is at the moment, but NOT permanent) there are hours available for me. My principal has told me that at a time which is very tough for new teachers, my position is very very stable. He is delighted with me and wants to keep me at the school.

However, my boyfriend is not in the same position. He has only been covering maternity contracts and is now in a career break position. While his principal is really happy with him, there is nothing there for him. His principal has said that he would put a good word in for my boyfriend with other schools, but all that is appearing are maternity contracts - nothing of substance.

We are in our 30s and have been going out together for 3 years. Marriage has been spoken about as have children and we are both happy that we are for the long term.

He has recently expressed a desire to move away in search of work, because as we get older and want to act on these plans we have, it is impossible to do so with such job insecurity. Banks won't look at us for a mortgage I'm sure, and I don't really think we would want the added pressure - it's hard enough worrying about where the rent money might come from if contracts aren't renewed.

In my head this is the way it is - I'm very close to CID which will probably, but not guaranteed, lead to permamency. I'm nervous about leaving all that to go away and maybe never get a position like it if/when I return to Ireland. (We would like to return to Ireland) I'm not worried about giving up a job to go with my bf - we are very happy and I know he would do the same for me. I'm just worried that in trying to make our future more secure, I could be making it less stable.

But if we stay - I may never get the permanency, maybe not for another 6 years. He may never find work or at least a suitable contract and it will delay our marriage, house plans.

I'm fairly certain that we will go - aside from it being easier to get work in , say, the middle east, it will also provide us with the money we need to go forward with our plans when we return home. But could we be potentially shooting ourselves in the feet?

I know nobody has the answer, but advice would be welcome.

Thank you

Magicmatilda

I'm all for travelling but if your ultimate plan is to be a teacher in Ireland them I think you should stay? Do you actually want to go away?

A friend of mine in the same position went travelling a few years ago. She was a year away from a CID. When she came back she eventually found some part time hours in a town miles away.

She has synced moved to Australia as her husband was in construction and she has left teaching now. She can't teach there with her subjects.

On a side note I imagine a CID is highly regarded when applying for mortgages.

ElleEm

I agree with Matilda, I think you would be mad to give up on your job now seen as you are on the road to being permenant. Your boyfriend isn't unemployed either- he IS working. I understand that working shorter term contracts can be frustrating, but if you want to return to Ireland in the future, you will find yourselves back at square one regarding career progression. And at that point, you may have a kid or two, and as MM says, getting a mortgage (regardless of your savings) will be near impossible without a fulltime permenant position between you.

Lux23

I think there is a solution to this, albeit a painful one. You should stay where you are and get your CID however, your boyfriend could move away and find work, and you could join him afterwards? Or is that feasible?

LegacyUser

Why don't you hang on two years, get your CID, then see if you can take a career break?

Lorna123

I would go away and have the chance of employment for both of you. You can't hang around forever hoping things will change and put your whole marriage plans on hold indefinitely. The job you are in at the moment is a good job but you will get something when you come back. Things are pretty bad on the job front at the moment in Ireland but will improve in the future. You can't stand still waiting for something to happen.

It's not all about work OP, there are other aspects of your life that have to be considered too.

Terri26

Yes, you would be mad to leave your job. It is hard enough to get hours every year to lead to a C.I.D but to nearly have a C.I.D. in 'good school' I think you would be mad to give that up. Your boyfriend is not unemployed. He is getting work and getting holiday pay on top of that.
C.I.D is not permanent but it's the next best thing and has pretty much the same rights. If you leave you are back to square one. Work for the next two years get your CID (you have to tecah your 5th year to activate your cid) and take a career break yourself if you are in the same position.

CaraMay

As well as this you won't be able to live together in most parts of the middle east as an unmarried couple.

LegacyUser

Thank you for all replies.

CaraMay - yes, sorry we are aware of that. I should have mentioned that if we do decide to go, we would like to get married before we leave. If we go, it's looking like we would go for a minimum of 2 years, but would possibly stay longer because the likelihood of the job situation having improved in 3yrs time is slim. We could be approaching 40 before we're able to come home and we would like to have our family before then, which would involve - for me - being married first. So our thinking was that we would rather get married in Ireland, so to do it before we go. It would also make living conditions smoother when over there.

hangonabit - or anyone else really - is it possible to take a career break on CID? If so, that is the answer to our prayers! But i didn't think it was possible.

Lux23 - thanks for your suggestion. While that situation is, strictly speaking, feasable - it's not something we want to do. If, as hangonabit suggests, it's possible to take career break on CID, then that's our solution. Otherwise, I have to wait around for permanency before I could follow him on career break and that could take up to another 6 years!! Who knows

JustAThought

I'd say you are mad to not look at a the options for your future, career path & financial stability before dropping a CID because your boyfriend dosn't have his.

One of you at least needs CID if you are not to struggle your whole life & no doubt you know how almost impossible it is. If you leave now by the time you get back there will be even more new teachers hungry for work & looking for permanency, your contract will probably be on a pre January 2013 basis which will mean at least an additional pay drop of 10%, and having to go back a lay scale to new entrant level as you will be gone out of the system totally.

You didn't say where you would travel to -it sounds like its an escape /solution principle for him but a really long term terrible career and financial outcome for you ( apart from marriage -congratulations) . I would be asking why this isn't a consideration in your discussions & would be worrying about that. If your love is strong enough to last a lifetime & all the difficulties & financial problems not having a job will bring, particularly with children, surely it can last an 8 month period while he flies off for an adventure & you consolidate your career & financial future. You can join him in the summer / June-July-August , etc & have your PAID holiday.

I wasn't sure if you are mid 30's - yih say you want to come back & start having a family at 40???????? Did I read that wrong ??? do you know the statistics & probability around that? Google it.

If you are both teachers you will have this problem all your lives unless you address it now. It is ideal that you will both want CID or permanency in the same location or school but to be realistic those days are over & apart from the Unattractiveness of this from a HR point of view as an employer , it will be extremely difficult to achieve . Most likely one of yih will have to travel to work -next town, whatever. But it is madness for you both to choose to " give up" a CID because one of you has not got it/permanency.


And not mad good.

Try consolidating your CID contract & after year 5 take a break if you still want to but the problem will always be there - you will not both get CID in the same school. And it will be much harder for a female in a few years time who wants to marry & have children ; or who is married & has a child, to get a permanency - they will prefer someone who they know will not be going off on maternity leave & you will also be dealing with that. While you have CID you, your family, and the children you have/plan are financially protected. Do you want to be splitting a house lease between two towns where you are both getting a few hours here & there, or do you want to be saving to be married & in a house share because the only job you can get Is in Galway & he has work in Carlow? Or worse living in a house & trying to get rent allowance accepted by a landlord because neither of you have a regular income -or enough income?

At least this way some if your permanent financial future is secure & you can plan a home , children & life together -even if you are the principle breadwinner. Perhaps this is what the underlying issue with going away is.


PS
30 children in 40' heat!!
Will you wear a Burka & mind not being able to drive or own a car, or go out by yourself, or drink.
3 months of paid leave to follow your bF & enjoy the country in a bit of peace dosn't sound too terrible. You so have a few weeks at Easter & Christmas!! Not too bad for a safe secure future!! Rather than scrambling around in stress. & poverty for the rest of your days : (

CaraMay

The last poster doesn't seem to know much about the middle east.

I think you need to do the sums. Maybe you could work there for 5 years and come hone with a hefty whack towards a new house. I obviously don't know your salary but illbet its hard to save a lot of money very easily. Maybe a few years away will set you up.

Do you want to have kids? If so would you do that abroad?

LegacyUser

Just a thought - thanks for your input. You raise some good points

But just to be clear - we don't work in the same school now, nor do we want to. One of us currently makes a commute to work which takes over one hour at the moment, so this suggestion of ours is not a way to get employment together, it's just to get employment.

I should also point out that we sit and read/write these replies together. This is very much a 'team' thing, it is not my boyfriend taking flight of fancy and me looking to drop everything and follow him out of stupidity.

Staying put is also an option of course, one which my boyfriend has no problem doing if that is my wish.

We essentially were thinking "we are at that stage of our lives where we want to marry and have children very soon - in the next year or so. We get stressed that this either won't happen or will be very difficult for us because of a lack of a permanent contract for both of us. Yes, I will have CID, but in an age of redeployments, I have been warned by my principal to always realistically expect to find my contract unrenewable. We are looking for a remedy for this. The one sticking out at us is travel abroad. Travelling to, say the Middle East and getting in the region of 3-4k tax free a month - this is the rate in some schools there; we both have friends over there - for minimum 2 years would certainly allow us the opportunity to provide a considerable amount towards a mortgage and raising some children"

We are not looking for a get rich quick scheme and we are not looking to weasel our way out of paying taxes/working hard for little money. We are just looking to start a future together and that is so incredibly hard right now. Without a doubt we totally made the wrong career choices when it came to providing future security - we would have more job stability if we were cleaning toilets in mc Donald's - and I don't mean to offend by saying that - we both come from very humble families - it's just that there is a (very, very incorrect) assumption out there that teaching is THE job to have. It's not. If I could go back, I would pick a different path. The extended holidays are not worth the panic and instability it also brings.

CaraMay

It will be a good job to have when you have kids.

What would happen re work now if you got pregnant?

Syllabus

Having exp in a diff country would more than likely stand to you when coming back here in the future plus it will allow you to save a lot of money if you teach in the likes of dubai.

I say go and worry about the future in the future. You're not getting any younger







Imo

ElleEm

I get what you're saying, OP, regarding coming back with a big chunk of cash to use a deposit for your mortgage, but if you don't have permanent jobs, it is unlikely you will get a mortgage. And if you have kids, that is also taken into account on a mortgage application.

Right now, you have money coming in. If you leave (and albiet, save money), you will be coming back to unemployment and starting from square one re getting stable jobs. You may be on the dole/ dipping into your savings while job hunting and raising babies. As you said yourself, you may both be approaching 40 at this point. It just seems like a huge amount of pressure to be adding onto family life when you could wait a year, get CID yourself, and be in a more secure position yourself. Your boyfriend HAS an income, and may end up falling into a more stable position himself.

I understand that it's frustrating for your boyfriend, but I imagine if you come back in 5 years with a few quid in your pockets and a child in tow, that you will regret ever leaving in the first place.

Toto Wolfcastle

I left a permanent teaching job to move to a different county. I had an in-demand subject and 4 years of full time experience. I was able to look for jobs in Dublin and the surrounding counties. I ended up with maternity leave contracts. (I was happy with this) You will find it incredibly difficulty to find a job if you leave for a couple of years. Teaching is a job that for the most part requires you to work short or temporary contracts for years before you get any sort of security. You need to be in thd system. However difficult you think it will be to get a mortgage and settle down in your current situation it will be ten times harder if you leave and come back. If you choose to leave you need to make sure that you are 100% happy with your decision or you may end up regretting it. I'm all for people traveling if that's what they want to do but your plan to leave just doesn't match your ultimate goals.

You also need to figure out if you will be put on the new payscale when you come back or if your experience abroad will count. The new payscale is a big drop.

You could also try posting in Teaching and Lecturing for opinions.

LegacyUser

I have a friend who has a CID who is on the second or third year of a career break. So yes, it is possible.

What I'm not sure of, is if you can apply for it after your first year of CID. My friend had worked for several years as a CID.

But all you have to do is to ring your union. Failing that, ring the DES and they would have no problem letting you know. All it would take is a phone call.

I get that your job is insecure in the meantime but you'll soon know if you're required in the school for next year. We've already been informed about redeployment.

LegacyUser

I think you would be mad to leave, but that is probably mostly because I personally would not put my career on hold for the sake of any man or to start a family. I'd prefer to get the career sorted first, the rest could follow if that is what you wanted . I don't see why you should just walk away from your job just because your boyfriend hasn't gotten something permanent. He still has an income, your's will just happen to be higher most likely. If he sticks around he may even get something more permanent in time, but I just don't see how either of you could get permanency if you leave for a few years and then just come back? (I know it is not him making you do anything and that it is a joint decision)
Again, most of this is just based on my own personal opinion, and I realise someone more interested in the whole husband and children thing would have very different priorities to me. However from reading the replies of people who seem to have some knowledge of the teaching industry, and also from having a sister who is a teacher,I have to say that regardless of the reasons for leaving I still think it is a very bad idea.

Overheal

what are your boyfriend's other prospects? Private tutoring for instance

LegacyUser

CaraMay - Yes, it will be a good job when I have children. I suppose I shouldn't be so ungrateful. Re: getting pregnant now in work - I honestly don't know what would happen. I suppose that I would have the same rights/entitlements that any pregnant woman would have, but I'm not sure.

ElleEm - that's exactly our dilemma - We don't want to inadvertently make life worse for ourselves, especially seeing as we are trying so hard to make it better.

Are we being naive to think that if we went to, say, somewhere like the Middle East, where tutors who are as qualified as us are getting close to 4k per month, untaxed that after 5 years we would have enough money to actually buy a house and forget about the mortgage? Are we being stupid to think that? See, we were thinking that, at, say even 5k combined per month, at, say 9months of the year is 45k. Multiply that by 5 and we would have 225k (had to get the calculator out - we're clearly not maths teachers) and those figures are based pretty much on the lowest we could expect to earn. But maybe there is a lot we haven't considered.

Bobblehead Panda - payscale was one of our big worries. It's on my list of questions for the union, along with 'can I take a career break on CID. Hangonabit, I know you say that it's possible, but something tells me that while it used to be, it's not anymore.
Out of interest, and slightly off topic BP, but do you regret going? Do you feel that you gained anything from going? Not just financially, but personally

Overheal - If by what are his other prospects, you mean, can he give grinds, then yes, he can, and he is at the moment. But that is not any more secure than career break or maternity cover, in fact when looking for a mortgage, i'd imagine it's disregarded even quicker. Financially we are fine and would be able to pay a mortgage, considering we practically are doing so by renting. It's the lack of a stable contract that is preventing us from buying our own place. Grinds won't help us get there.

bobbo23

Why not forget about lumbering yourselves with a mortgage? Have kids if you want them, travel if you want to travel. If you are only traveling for the money be careful where you go, a keen interest in somewhere really helps. If you don't like the place it will be hard to stay.

Asia is a possibility and a wonderful experience too. Consider though that travelling away will test the strongest of relationships so much effort needs to be put into developing and maintaining one's own friendships while away. In this regard I can only recommend immersing yourself into the local culture/community and avoid falling into an 'ex pat' experience.

It seems to me, it is either kids and fun times, maybe no money but hey so what no-one has any, or worrying about jobs and mortgages and definitely having no money and getting stressed out or of on an adventure of a lifetime

I don't see what the problem is. You're in a better position than many. You have an almost permanent job and he's getting work. You're already in your thirties and you want a family. I don't understand why you'd throw away the security you do have to go abroad. The Middle East can pay well but it isn't for everyone and your lifestyle will be compromised to some extent, depending on where you go. If it's that you just want to travel, surely as a teacher, you have an incredibly generous amount of holiday time every year? Yes, I think you would be mad to leave a job you like, which pays quite well with decent benefits. IMO.

kunst nugget

Just out of curiosity: If the situation was reversed and it was your partner who was a year away from his CID, would he up sticks if you decided you wanted to travel?