EU Citizen's Initiative seeking to influence the EU Commission to require 30 km/h as

DrMike

EU Citizen's Initiative seeking to influence the EU Commission to require 30 km/h as the standard urban default speed limit.

It would be helpful if Boards.ie cyclists could take a few minutes to go on-line at this URL:

http://en.30kmh.eu/

and support this novel citizens' initiative to have 30 km/h as the default speed limit in urban areas. We need Dublin's tiny and poorly enforced 30 m/h zone extended.

According to the ECF, The EU Commission has indeed been feeling some pressure recently concerning road safety, as the conference was marked by the ongoing campaign for the European Citizen’s initiative to limit speed in urban areas to 30km/h. If the initiative manages to collect 1 million signatures, the Commission will be forced by law to consider taking legal action to limit speed to 30kph.

We have got to get children back to cycling to school in Ireland. This is one measure that will help this.

Thirdfox

Speaking as someone who cycles to work, takes public transport and occasionally drives I don't agree with that proposal. In fact on my bike I often cycle above 30kmph.

lennymc

DrMike wrote: »

We need Dublin's tiny and poorly enforced 30 m/h zone extended.

why? Has it made any difference to road safety since its introduction? Genuine question. Do you mean 30 miles or 30 kilometers /h

edit - i see further on you mean 30km/h. Ignore that last bit

DrMike

We know from international road safety research literature that 30 km/h (20 mph) is appropriate for inner-core areas of towns and cities.

Minister Varadkar has sent a Directive to local authorities instructing them to review speed limits and introduce 30 km/h where appropriate. Slowerr vehicle speeds make it easier for cyclists to interact with motorised traffic to make lane changes, etc and the outcomes from impacts are less fatal.

Read more here: http://atrium.dublincycling.com/sites/default/files/30kph_speed_limits_will_andrews_1.pdf

Grassey

Thirdfox wrote: »

In fact on my bike I often cycle above 30kmph.

Pretty sure that speed limits don't apply to bicycles, only motorised vehicles.

Beasty

Grassey wrote: »

Pretty sure that speed limits don't apply to bicycles, only motorised vehicles.

Correct, but as this is an EU-wide initiative I would not be surprised to see it at least suggested that the limits should be applied to all traffic

My main concern with anything like this is enforcement - how practical is this? Are current limits properly enforced? (I know the answer to that one by the way;)).

In my view it would require a cultural change in Ireland to make something like this work, and there's a danger of a backlash from motorists if you try and force something like this through

galwaycyclist

The German town of Hilden was able to get cycling levels to 24% using an approach where 30km/h zones had a key role.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/wcc/report/Hilden.pdf

It is important not to see such measures as "absolute". 30km/h would not normally be used on streets with a high travel function but on residential roads, shopping streets, around schools etc. We currently have cars driving at 70km/h in 50 zones. If we could get them to drive at 50km/h in 30 zones then that is a win.

Yes it would be nice to have a police force that just enforced 50km/h limits and see how that worked but we don't have such a police force in this country at this time. Even if we did there would still be places where 30km/h or lower is needed.

shaka

Another example of eu bs , sorry but 50 kmh is plenty slow in towns- the problem is when this is not enforced.
And howis this going to get children back cycling to school ? When most schools due to budget constraints no longer even have bike racks or sheds to keep bikes safe. Most children would still have to negotiate main roads !

Senecio

As a cyclist and a motorist, 30kph is impractical in all but very limited zones. In front of schools for example.

galwaycyclist

shaka wrote: »

Another example of eu bs , sorry but 50 kmh is plenty slow in towns- the problem is when this is not enforced.
And how is this going to get children back cycling to school ? When most schools due to budget constraints no longer even have bike racks or sheds to keep bikes safe. Most children would still have to negotiate main roads !

It obviously does get children back cycling to school otherwise various European countries wouldn't be doing it.

So some schools don't have bike parking therefore we should not try to make cycling safer, more attractive or more competitive? Or am I missing some part of your argument?

Some children may have to negotiate main roads but why should they be exposed to an assumed speed of 50km/h on all roads?

galwaycyclist

Senecio wrote: »

As a cyclist and a motorist, 30kph is impractical in all but very limited zones. In front of schools for example.

Its actually very easy - you put your car into 3rd gear and drive normally. It has been found to be quite practical all across Europe.

buffalo

It doesn't matter how many petitions there are if the rule isn't enforced.

Just turn College Green into a pedestrian plaza and be done with it. The traffic through there ruins the city centre for me, stick it on the quays.

And while I'm ranting, how about on the spot fines for taxi drivers who wait outside ranks on College Green, Suffolk St, and Westmoreland St. Making the roads dangerous and unfriendly for cyclists and people trying to board and alight the bus.

Lumen

buffalo wrote: »

And while I'm ranting, how about on the spot fines for taxi drivers who wait outside ranks on College Green, Suffolk St, and Westmoreland St. Making the roads dangerous and unfriendly for cyclists and people trying to board and alight the bus.

They're just trying to make a living, Joe.

Harrybelafonte

buffalo wrote: »

It doesn't matter how many petitions there are if the rule isn't enforced.

Just turn College Green into a pedestrian plaza and be done with it. The traffic through there ruins the city centre for me, stick it on the quays.

And while I'm ranting, how about on the spot fines for taxi drivers who wait outside ranks on College Green, Suffolk St, and Westmoreland St. Making the roads dangerous and unfriendly for cyclists and people trying to board and alight the bus.

Gotta say I totally agree with Buffalo on this. There's no reason for private cars to head down that direction, better to push it on to the Quays.

I used to commute by car, bus, bike between Whitehall and Donnybrook and there's no way I'd go near those areas in a car and they're the worst parts of the city to be on a bike, two lanes for traffic in the CBD (it is the CBD right?) Even for shopping it's a hateful area to get through.

Raam

I would LOVE for college green to be made into a plaza.

galwaycyclist

Beasty wrote: »

and there's a danger of a backlash from motorists if you try and force something like this through

I don't think there is currently any danger of the Garda enforcing traffic laws for the benefit of all citizens. However, I am not sure about the backlash thing. It depends on how the limits are applied and how they are sold to the public.

At the time that penalty points came in there was a very obvious overnight change in driver behaviour without too much whinging. For a month or so it was like being in a different country. It was only as people became aware that the "blue flu" epidemic was still rampant that they then went back to their old habits.

Lumen

Raam wrote: »

I would LOVE for college green to be made into a plaza.

It would then become impossible or inconvenient to navigate by bike.

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

It would then become impossible or inconvenient to navigate by bike.

I'm sure something could be arranged.

Lumen

Raam wrote: »

I'm sure something could be arranged.

Like what?

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

Like what?

Bike lift over the plaza.

buffalo

Lumen wrote: »

Like what?

If they can put Luas tracks in, I'm sure they can squeeze a cycle lane in. Just make sure you have a bell.

Harrybelafonte

buffalo wrote: »

If they can put Luas tracks in, I'm sure they can squeeze a cycle lane in. Just make sure you have a bell.

Bells are useless. Have one on the cargo bike and managed to sit behind a guy who walked in the bike path all along past the Bishop's Palace, ringing away to my heart's content, didn't cop a thing. Air horns all the way from now on. The plaza should be all artificial grasss with a bright blue bike path through it, like cycling on a stream.

DrMike

Folks! Could we please stick to topic which is 30 km/h as the default urban inner-core speed limit throughout the EU.

dave_o_brien

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Bells are useless. Have one on the cargo bike and managed to sit behind a guy who walked in the bike path all along past the Bishop's Palace, ringing away to my heart's content, didn't cop a thing. Air horns all the way from now on. The plaza should be all artificial grasss with a bright blue bike path through it, like cycling on a stream.

Convince the attractive woman you're squiring about town to walk on the wet grass in her open toed shoes in mid November, or the classy continental gentleman wearing grey suede that the grass is artificial, so the water won't make his shoes two tones of grey.

But yes, how College Green isn't already a plaza is beyond me.

Harrybelafonte

DrMike wrote: »

Folks! Could we please stick to topic which is 30 km/h as the default urban inner-core speed limit throughout the EU.

Yeah sure, a 30km/h as the default urban inner-core speed limit throughout the EU is pointless. I have seen no change in driver behaviour since its introduction here and I've not seen any evidence from anyone else to counter my experience.

doolox

....such as Dublin, Cork, Galway etc where there is extensive and often badly notified or mapped one way systems and signage so that strangers and inexperienced motorists are confused and unable to travel at higher speeds. This should have a payback of stopping tail backs, illegal stopping and blockages on roads where the 30 kph limit is imposed. It should alos make people more confident at T junctions etc where visibility is poor and the fear of being hit by someone at high speed is present.

There must be a payback of more even and constant flow if this system is to work.

Lumen

DrMike wrote: »

Folks! Could we please stick to topic which is 30 km/h as the default urban inner-core speed limit throughout the EU.

Perhaps you should add a poll to your original post.

fat bloke

There is only one scientific way to sort this out.

Drive a car or variety of vehicles into a volunteer cyclist or series of cyclists at 50kph and then 30kph followed by a quick questionnaire to determine which one they preferred.

el tel

There are plenty of places where traffic cannot exceed 30km/h (e.g. due to speed limits, congestion, traffic calming etc) but where cylists are still put (and put themselves) in extreme danger of death and injury.

I'm sorry, but the petition is a waste of space.

galwaycyclist

el tel wrote: »

There are plenty of places where traffic cannot exceed 30km/h (e.g. due to speed limits, congestion, traffic calming etc) but where cylists are still put (and put themselves) in extreme danger of death and injury.

I'm sorry, but the petition is a waste of space.

So the problem is not the absence of legislation but the absence of an effective police service?

I think this is an important point to tease out - because there are various measures that "officialdom" will say there is no "public demand" for, lower speed limits, residents only parking zones and so on.

But is the issue in Ireland not that there is no demand but rather that there is no confidence in certain state institutions to deliver?