Toronto or London?

rojorolo

Hi all I'm really hoping for some help with this. I'm living in New York at the moment on a one year visa which is running out at the end of June. I applied for the IEC in February with the intention of heading to Canada (Toronto). My application has been delayed because I sent them a police cert form the NYPD and not the FBI so I'm only back on track after submitting what they needed as of yesterday.

Due to the fact this process has been taking so long I am looking at possibly going elsewhere and forgetting Toronto altogether. Especially as I will have to go home if my visa is not through before the end of June. London has been my plan B all along (im an architect so no hope for a job in Ireland) and the more I have been thinking about it the more appealing it looks. Maybe its just that I have never been to Toronto (only Montreal).

Basically could anyone tell me which city you prefer and why? Or even tell me your own experiences of Toronto? Thanks in advance

OneColdHand

rojorolo wrote: »

Hi all I'm really hoping for some help with this. I'm living in New York at the moment on a one year visa which is running out at the end of June. I applied for the IEC in February with the intention of heading to Canada (Toronto). My application has been delayed because I sent them a police cert form the NYPD and not the FBI so I'm only back on track after submitting what they needed as of yesterday.

Due to the fact this process has been taking so long I am looking at possibly going elsewhere and forgetting Toronto altogether. Especially as I will have to go home if my visa is not through before the end of June. London has been my plan B all along (im an architect so no hope for a job in Ireland) and the more I have been thinking about it the more appealing it looks. Maybe its just that I have never been to Toronto (only Montreal).

Basically could anyone tell me which city you prefer and why? Or even tell me your own experiences of Toronto? Thanks in advance

Hey, I'm an architect living in Toronto. I've been here about a year and a half. I am however, going to be moving to the UK once my visa runs out - so sort of a similar situation to yourself!

There's pros and cons for Toronto. I'd break it down as follows:
Things I like about Toronto:
- It's a busy happening modern city, and there's always some going on, no matter what you're into.
- There's a lot of construction, so as an architect, it was relatively easy to pick up a job.
- The Canadian countryside is beautiful, and there's easy access to lots of beautiful parts of Ontario.

Things I dislike about Toronto:
- For me personally, it's a bit too big, and busy.
- The quality of Architecture is quite poor and, although it's quite easy to pick up a job, it's not so easy to pick up work in an office that doesn't do either large Condos, or lots of commercial work.
- The city is expanding rapidly, and as such, there's is constant construction going on everywhere (good for jobs, not good for peace of mind, traffic, conjestion, etc).
- The traffic is diabolical.

In summary, a cool place to live for a year or two, but I won't be settling here! Hence my move to somewhere in the UK.

Good luck!

zweton

Would toronto not be similar to london? Most big citys are the same after a while no?

rojorolo

Thank you for the reply OneColdHand.
That is more or less the specific answer I needed. Coming from living in New York I'd say the traffic thing and it being big and busy wont be as bad in comparison.
Its good to hear there is work. The fact it may not be of the best quality can be a bit soul destroying so that is a worry. I just don't know if the work in London would be any better? Possibly so I suppose.

I never really factored in the fact the countryside is nearby and worth visiting thats definitely a plus in Torontos favor when the city gets too much.

No matter what I would only plan to stay a year or so because I'd need to get registered in the UK so I will end up there eventually. Just trying to figure out if Toronto is worth delaying that for a year or so to experience it.

Were you long on the job hunt when you arrived?

OneColdHand

rojorolo wrote: »

The fact it may not be of the best quality can be a bit soul destroying so that is a worry. I just don't know if the work in London would be any better? Possibly so I suppose.

I feel that the quality would be a bit better in London/the UK. If not the design quality, then certainly the construction and detailing quality.

rojorolo wrote: »

I never really factored in the fact the countryside is nearby and worth visiting thats definitely a plus in Torontos favor when the city gets too much.

Well, I should quantify that! You can't take a spin for 20mins and be out in the countryside! Especially if you are living downtown! However, there are lots of places within, say, 3 hours of the city that are great for a weekend gettaway. Or camping, if you're into that.

rojorolo wrote: »

Were you long on the job hunt when you arrived?

I was here for 3 months before I started working. But 4/5 weeks of that I was working on my portfolio/CV. So maybe 6 weeks of job hunting. Also I was quite picky at the start! Before lower my standards!

I found offices very slow to make a decision on whether who they are going to hire. Or even IF they are going to hire someone. A few places interviewed me and then said that they were going to hold off hiring anyone to see if some work came up. It's altogether a lot slower process than at home.

I think you are in a good position. You can be picky, as you are going to end up in London anyway. You can apply for work from NY. If you are offered work by a nice office that you like, maybe give Toronto a go. If not, head for London!

ciaran67

rojorolo wrote: »

Hi all I'm really hoping for some help with this. I'm living in New York at the moment on a one year visa which is running out at the end of June. I applied for the IEC in February with the intention of heading to Canada (Toronto). My application has been delayed because I sent them a police cert form the NYPD and not the FBI so I'm only back on track after submitting what they needed as of yesterday.

Due to the fact this process has been taking so long I am looking at possibly going elsewhere and forgetting Toronto altogether. Especially as I will have to go home if my visa is not through before the end of June. London has been my plan B all along (im an architect so no hope for a job in Ireland) and the more I have been thinking about it the more appealing it looks. Maybe its just that I have never been to Toronto (only Montreal).

Basically could anyone tell me which city you prefer and why? Or even tell me your own experiences of Toronto? Thanks in advance

As a Londoner and now a Canadian citizen as well. London, all day long. Proper big city.

rojorolo

Thanks for the advice going to get the CV started now. Thankfully I had to massively overhaul it when I came to NYC so hopefully wont have too much to do except add the year. I dont think I could afford 3 months out of work. Any areas in Toronto you would recommend living in? I'm in Brooklyn now love how chilled it is though there is always something on, im hoping Toronto has a similar areas.

Lol thanks for the advice ciaran 67. I dunno how impartial you really are. Did you grow up in London? Im ok not being in a big city for a while. Might need a break after the insanity that is New York. I hope its not too quiet in Toronto though

ciaran67

rojorolo wrote: »

Lol thanks for the advice ciaran 67. I dunno how impartial you really are. Did you grow up in London? Im ok not being in a big city for a while. Might need a break after the insanity that is New York. I hope its not too quiet in Toronto though

Inner South London born and bred mate. I also and spent a summer looking for work in Toronto a couple of years back. Overrated in my opinion. But we're all different and you might prefer it. All the best with what you choose.

NewsMeQuick

OneColdHand, is it hard to get work as fresh graduate in Toronto? Would you say Toronto would be easier than Vancouver for an early career start? My degree is in international business languages.

London - I'm also very interested in London, I would love to live there. However, the UK has been teethering very close to a 3rd recession. Even outside the Euro currency, it's clear there are no safe economic places in Europe at the moment. (other countries are lodging official complaints with the EU Commission that Germany is actually subsidising it's 40% of people on it's Kurtzarbeit and is therefore illegal, their unemployment is artificially low).

My plan is to get out of Europe entirely, and not from the frying pan to the fire.

OneColdHand

NewsMeQuick wrote: »

OneColdHand, is it hard to get work as fresh graduate in Toronto? Would you say Toronto would be easier than Vancouver for an early career start? My degree is in international business languages.

Well I can only comment on my industry. It would be fairly easy for an architectural graduate to get a job, yes. I have no idea about business, or languages, nevermind international business languages - so I won't be much help on that front.

I've never been to Vancouver, but it's another big city. I can't imagine it would be that different to Toronto in terms of jobs.

OneColdHand

rojorolo wrote: »

Thanks for the advice going to get the CV started now. Thankfully I had to massively overhaul it when I came to NYC so hopefully wont have too much to do except add the year.

My one piece of advice as regards your CV/portfolio, would be to play up any technical experience you have. Offices here seem to like that. They are also likely to ask you if you are familiar with the OBC (Ontario Building Code). I know it will be hard to become very familiar with it, but I would at least try and find out a little bit about it, so you aren't caught on the hop.

rojorolo wrote: »

Any areas in Toronto you would recommend living in? I'm in Brooklyn now love how chilled it is though there is always something on, im hoping Toronto has a similar areas.

There's lot of cool areas in Toronto. I live in Bloor West Village. It's a bit outside the city, which I like, as I can avoid the madness! It's near High Park, the biggest park in the city. The Junction and Roncesvalles are other areas near Bloor West, they're nice too.

Of course there's other areas too, but I'm not as familiar with them. The Danforth has always been cool anytime I've been.

rojorolo

my one piece of advice as regards your CV/portfolio, would be to play up any technical experience you have. Offices here seem to like that. They are also likely to ask you if you are familiar with the OBC (Ontario Building Code). I know it will be hard to become very familiar with it, but I would at least try and find out a little bit about it, so you aren't caught on the hop.

Building code? Oh dear, I still haven't quite gotten my head around the NYC building code and its been a year. Is it very different from the various Irish/UK/Euro building codes? I am quite familiar with them. I should look this up. Any major programmes to brush up on/blatantly exaggerate my experience of. I know Revit is massive in the UK right now. I'm more a AutoCAD/SketchUp/Microstation/Photoshop person atm.

I had a look at Bloor West Village. It seems quite a bit out. Does Toronto extend out to its environs quite far? I like the look of the prices though. I also looked at Danforth which is closer to downtown with ok prices which I like. Some quite nicely kitted out apartments in the distillery area that are around what I'm paying now in Brooklyn. Again I've no clue what all of this in relation to as I have never been.

I have friends who live near the Kensington markets area who like it. Im just trying to piece together a comparison in my head of areas I know elsewhere and what they compare to in Toronto.

What stage of things are you at? I graduated in 2011 and have a year and a bit architectural experience with about 2 years experience before graduation (so 3 in total I suppose). $42,000 per anum seems standard in New York at my stage and apparently £25,000- £27,000 is standard in London for my stage. Any idea what to expect in Toronto wage wise? Just so I can figure out what sort of apartment I could afford. Its starting to look like Toronto is the place im heading.

the UK has been teethering very close to a 3rd recession. Even outside the Euro currency, it's clear there are no safe economic places in Europe at the moment. (other countries are lodging official complaints with the EU Commission that Germany is actually subsidising it's 40% of people on it's Kurtzarbeit and is therefore illegal, their unemployment is artificially low).

Yeah this is the thing swaying me too. Its been nice being out of that recession terror for a while. The US though bad is nowhere near as bad as Europe. I do miss UK things like the BBC, impartial news reporting and crappy Saturday night TV though. Silly but true.

ciaran67

NewsMeQuick wrote: »

OneColdHand, is it hard to get work as fresh graduate in Toronto? Would you say Toronto would be easier than Vancouver for an early career start? My degree is in international business languages.

London - I'm also very interested in London, I would love to live there. However, the UK has been teethering very close to a 3rd recession. Even outside the Euro currency, it's clear there are no safe economic places in Europe at the moment. (other countries are lodging official complaints with the EU Commission that Germany is actually subsidising it's 40% of people on it's Kurtzarbeit and is therefore illegal, their unemployment is artificially low).

The UK may be but London is almost entirely a different place to the rest of the country. Wages are low though compared with here.

ciaran67

OneColdHand wrote: »

Well I can only comment on my industry. It would be fairly easy for an architectural graduate to get a job, yes. I have no idea about business, or languages, nevermind international business languages - so I won't be much help on that front.

I've never been to Vancouver, but it's another big city. I can't imagine it would be that different to Toronto in terms of jobs.

Apparently is it. I, on the other hand, have found it to be the complete opposite. But then again im not doing my usual work, graphics/artworking.

Beebox

ciaran67 wrote: »

Apparently is it. I, on the other hand, have found it to be the complete opposite. But then again im not doing my usual work, graphics/artworking.

Are you in Vancouver? Did you find work in architecture or did you look for a change? Just wondering as I'm just over here now about to start looking for something in architecture.

Sunshine87

rojorolo wrote: »

Hi all I'm really hoping for some help with this. I'm living in New York at the moment on a one year visa which is running out at the end of June. I applied for the IEC in February with the intention of heading to Canada (Toronto). My application has been delayed because I sent them a police cert form the NYPD and not the FBI so I'm only back on track after submitting what they needed as of yesterday.

Due to the fact this process has been taking so long I am looking at possibly going elsewhere and forgetting Toronto altogether. Especially as I will have to go home if my visa is not through before the end of June. London has been my plan B all along (im an architect so no hope for a job in Ireland) and the more I have been thinking about it the more appealing it looks. Maybe its just that I have never been to Toronto (only Montreal).

Basically could anyone tell me which city you prefer and why? Or even tell me your own experiences of Toronto? Thanks in advance

I prefer Toronto, hotter summers and just the general buzz of the place. Attitudes are positive here, and are much more welcoming to newcomers.

I was born and reared in London, and tbh, i am so glad i came to Toronto. I got offered a good job in London last year, but even though the experience would have been good, the pay wasn't, and the cost of rent is higher than here (i'm paying $500 a month for a double room in downtown, including all utilities and there's a free gym in our condo), so i never need a taxi, and i'm right beside the subway.

I know a few of my friends are architects here, and they had no problem getting work, and they are on good salaries. You just have to network a bit, but once you get contacts, there should be no problem.

Best of luck with whatever place you choose to move to!

murraykil

:pac:

zweton

wtf!

murraykil

Toronto Mayor Rob Ford and London Mayor Boris Johnson.

OneColdHand

rojorolo wrote: »

Building code? Oh dear, I still haven't quite gotten my head around the NYC building code and its been a year. Is it very different from the various Irish/UK/Euro building codes? I am quite familiar with them. I should look this up. Any major programmes to brush up on/blatantly exaggerate my experience of. I know Revit is massive in the UK right now. I'm more a AutoCAD/SketchUp/Microstation/Photoshop person atm.

Yeah, they won't expect you to know it so well so that you know the width of fire escape off hand, for example! But I'm just suggesting to at least be aware of the fact that there is one! I'm here nearly 2 years and don't really know it that well if I'm perfectly honest!

Revit is becoming bigger here without a doubt. And some offices have switched entirely to Revit. But I wouldn't worry about that. There's plenty of offices that need CAD users too.

rojorolo wrote: »

I had a look at Bloor West Village. It seems quite a bit out. Does Toronto extend out to its environs quite far? I like the look of the prices though. I also looked at Danforth which is closer to downtown with ok prices which I like. Some quite nicely kitted out apartments in the distillery area that are around what I'm paying now in Brooklyn. Again I've no clue what all of this in relation to as I have never been.

Yeah, Bloor West is definitely a bit out of the city, which is why I like it! It would be considered outside of the downtown area. But the greater Toronto area is HUGE! Going north it goes as a far as Richmond Hill and Markham, going west Toronto bleeds into Mississauga, Oakville, Burlington. They're all different cities, but part of the Greater Toronto Area (GTA). The Distillery district is cool! I love it down there. It's closer to downtown too.

rojorolo wrote: »

I have friends who live near the Kensington markets area who like it. Im just trying to piece together a comparison in my head of areas I know elsewhere and what they compare to in Toronto.

Yeah Kensington is nice. Again, close to the downtown. You'll find rent a bit more in some where like the Distillery District or Kensington, than in Bloor West, which is one of the reasons I'm here. Myself and my girlfriend pay $1600 for the floor of a house, with 2 bedrooms. An apartment like this would be well over $2000 downtown I'd say.

rojorolo wrote: »

What stage of things are you at? I graduated in 2011 and have a year and a bit architectural experience with about 2 years experience before graduation (so 3 in total I suppose). $42,000 per anum seems standard in New York at my stage and apparently £25,000- £27,000 is standard in London for my stage. Any idea what to expect in Toronto wage wise? Just so I can figure out what sort of apartment I could afford. Its starting to look like Toronto is the place im heading.

Graduated 2006. So just over 6 years exp.

I'd say you could expect about the same as you are on in NY. As probably you know, it can vary depending on the type of office you apply for. There's lots of big commercial offices where you will probably get a better wage, but the work might not be as interesting as a smaller office.

circadian

NewsMeQuick wrote: »

OneColdHand, is it hard to get work as fresh graduate in Toronto? Would you say Toronto would be easier than Vancouver for an early career start? My degree is in international business languages.

London - I'm also very interested in London, I would love to live there. However, the UK has been teethering very close to a 3rd recession. Even outside the Euro currency, it's clear there are no safe economic places in Europe at the moment. (other countries are lodging official complaints with the EU Commission that Germany is actually subsidising it's 40% of people on it's Kurtzarbeit and is therefore illegal, their unemployment is artificially low).

My plan is to get out of Europe entirely, and not from the frying pan to the fire.

Depending on what languages you know, Vancouver would be a great spot.

NewsMeQuick

circadian wrote: »

Depending on what languages you know, Vancouver would be a great spot.

I would like to present the international business side first :rolleyes:(corporate strategy, cross-cultural recruitment, int. marketing, int. finance, corp. communications) etc. and avoid using languages to be honest. I make that clear in the CV too to avoid that coming up. The reason is that I move like the wind in business and I find languages quite hard. (I did them for cultural interest and life experience.)

circadian

Sorry was half rat assed when I replied. Think I fell asleep as I was replying, sorry about that!

Vancouver has very strong links with Asia, in particular Hong Kong, Korea and Japan. Since you're in the business world and you speak English you should be fine.

My point was, Vancouver has very close ties with Asia if that's something you're interested in.

It's also a great city to live in, if you're an outdoors type I can't think of anywhere that's better. Skiing in winter, hiking/swimming/beach/BBQ in summer. Has it all really.