Bad parenting

Ray Palmer

I was watching a show on Channel 4 called "Skint" last night and there were some things on it that made me despair for the kids.

One mother told her daughter that her farther didn't come around because he had a new baby and didn't care about her as result. I don't care how true it is I just couldn't see any justification to tell a child that. No matter how you felt about the partner.

Another parent was screaming at her son and act like a child herself and was wondering why her son had no respect.

One not on the show but I have seen and heard numerous times is parents referring to their child as their best friend. To me that is a really bad sign of parenting skills. Your child is not your best friend and never should be. It indicates to me the parent is not putting the correct barriers to protect their child from things they should never know. Your child is also going to have real best friends.

Am I the only one who thinks a parent no matter what age the child should always have a parent child relationship?

GeorgeBailey

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks a parent no matter what age the child should always have a parent child relationship?

Yip. You're the only one. In the whole world. You're a snow-flake.

HondaSami

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks a parent no matter what age the child should always have a parent child relationship?

It's changes as they get older, you are not going to treat a teenager the same way as you treat a 4yr old.
Many parents and kids are best friends, it's nice to see as it happens imo.

Ray Palmer

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks a parent no matter what age the child should always have a parent child relationship?

When a child is grown up I think the barriers can dissolve, but while still a minor I'd agree that this "besties" attitude that some parents have is unhealthy.

There are a good few yummy mummies in my area that seem to be more interested in getting their child to like them than in actually raising them.

SunnyDub1

It's a show/documentary - anything to get ratings.

I watched it too and can safely say most of it was set up just like nearly everything on TV these days.

biko

Ray Palmer wrote: »

One mother told her daughter that her farther didn't come around

Farting father?

bbam

Conversation overheard by a friend who is a teacher.

6 year old girl:- " I have a new daddy"
Her friend:- "whats his name, is he nice"
6 year old:- "he's x and he's fun"
Her friend:- " yea he's fun, he used to be my daddy"

I died a bit inside when I heard this. It's a small town school, but it brought it home to me that the family unit is falling Appart and there is less and less understanding or willingness to be a family and how important it is to children.
I know I sound prehistoric but this constant bed hopping behaviour and normalising it, is a downward spiral for our society. We are all worse off as a result.

hatrickpatrick

Ray Palmer wrote: »

it indicates to me the parent is not putting the correct barriers to protect their child from things they should never know.

Such as? Keeping secrets from teenagers is next to impossible, keeping secrets from older preteens is just as hard, and take it from me finding out that your parents are lying to you about something does irreparable damage to trust.

Ilik Urgee

biko wrote: »

Farting father?

OP could be dutch.....

anncoates

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks a parent no matter what age the child should always have a parent child relationship?

If I had a kid like some of those teenage lads on it last night, I'd flee the country.

Davidth88

OP, that programme last night was distressing on so many levels.

The woman with the teenage son, a good example of really bad parenting .

The girl you were talking about , my take on it, she was 12 , her mother/step father had just had a newborn , and she was acting up at school and blamed the new born ...... what I saw , and of course C4 did their usual editing to make it look certain ways , the father was basically doing what he could, I reckon the production crew put that line ' into her mouth '.

You have to remember C4 like their ' documentaries ' to be as sensational as possible , so they are edited as such. The teenage tearaway was certainly painted in a very bad light , as was his mother.

The bit that distressed me was the casual nature of lawlessness throughout the programme , kids riding motorbikes ( 3 up ) ... the same motorbike most of the time , shoplifting was acceptable/ the way of life etc.

paddydriver

biko wrote: »

Farting father?

My kids get great laugh from my farts:eek:.. although had a lot of salad at the weekend and they were not so friendly.

paddydriver

OP... can I check do you have kids? ... Just asking; and don't mean anything from it.

But responses to your perception of what you take from that programme could be very different on whether you have kids or not.

Disclaimer: I didn't see the program but can only guess how bad it looked!

Ray Palmer

HondaSami wrote: »

It's changes as they get older, you are not going to treat a teenager the same way as you treat a 4yr old.
Many parents and kids are best friends, it's nice to see as it happens imo.

You don't think there is something strange about having two generations who can't have friends of their own generation?

Later in life I guess it is possible but I would expect that there is still a parental divide. I can't imagine my mother as my best friend, she is my mother can't see how she could see me as anything but her son.

The vast amount of times I have seen a parent refer to their child as their best friend they were single mothers through divorce, death etc.... I see it as an unhealthy thing for the mother to latch on to their child in the absence of a partner. Mostly it is to their daughter too.

eviltwin

I think when people talk about being friends with their kids they just mean having a good relationship where the child can be open and ask them anything without fear. I don't think many people want to go clubbing with their kids.

I Heart Internet

bbam wrote: »

I know I sound prehistoric but this constant bed hopping behaviour and normalising it, is a downward spiral for our society. We are all worse off as a result.

True dat.

kunst nugget

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Such as? Keeping secrets from teenagers is next to impossible, keeping secrets from older preteens is just as hard, and take it from me finding out that your parents are lying to you about something does irreparable damage to trust.

Are you just after finding out that your old dog Spot wasn't actually adopted by an elderly couple?

davet82

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks a parent no matter what age the child should always have a parent child relationship?

i'd have to disagree when it comes to breast feeding

HondaSami

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You don't think there is something strange about having two generations who can't have friends of their own generation?

Later in life I guess it is possible but I would expect that there is still a parental divide. I can't imagine my mother as my best friend, she is my mother can't see how she could see me as anything but her son.

The vast amount of times I have seen a parent refer to their child as their best friend they were single mothers through divorce, death etc.... I see it as an unhealthy thing for the mother to latch on to their child in the absence of a partner. Mostly it is to their daughter too.

I'm not saying parents should only be friends with their kids or vica versa.

What is a best friend?, to me it's someone you trust and i would say parents trust their children.
I'm sure it's not just single mothers who have close relationships with their daughters/sons.
I think parents and kids become closer as the kids grown up and it's the way it should be don't you think?

December2012

I agree that you shouldn't be best friends with your kid, but sometimes you are your child's best friend. My preschoolers tell me that I'm their best friend, and in their mind I am. I'm the one who is there every day, I bring them places, I facilitate their needs so to them I currently am the closest person to them.

Now this will change as school starts and as they grow up.

And then when they are older we will be closer again but in a different way.

I won't be doing stuff for them as they grow up, and while I'll still be their parent, and their friend, I won't be their only friend.

Ray Palmer

Davidth88 wrote: »

The girl you were talking about , my take on it, she was 12 , her mother/step father had just had a newborn , and she was acting up at school and blamed the new born ...... what I saw ,
.

She wasn't talking about the parents she was with but her natural father and his child from what I understood. She was saying how he didn't come around anymore and the mother told him he no longer cared about her because he had a new child.

Given they also just brought in a new child it makes it worse

paddydriver wrote: »

OP... can I check do you have kids? ... Just asking; and don't mean anything from it.

No kids.

Davidth88

Ray Palmer wrote: »

She wasn't talking about the parents she was with but her natural father and his child from what I understood. She was saying how he didn't come around anymore and the mother told him he no longer cared about her because he had a new child.

Given they also just brought in a new child it makes it worse


No kids.

Possible .. I may have tuned out for a mo.......

Anyway , you are right, the worst things I have seen is a mother who treat their teenage daughters as ' drinking buddies ' and basically cut the leash totally abdicating all responsibilty

The reason for the bold , I have actually seen this happen , so I am not saying all mothers do this or anything like that :-)

Lando Griffin

Ray Palmer wrote: »

One not on the show but I have seen and heard numerous times is parents referring to their child as their best friend.

As a loving father, I find your take on this somewhat ob skewer.

Every Sunday morning there is nothing better that watching your 2 year old bumping into things, building dangerous structures like a plastic chair on top of the couch, rolling a ball under their legs and bending over to see where its gone only to topple over, hence my 2 year old is like a "drunk best friend"

Fromthetrees

Lando Griffin wrote: »

As a loving father, I find your take on this somewhat ob skewer.

Every Sunday morning there is nothing better that watching your 2 year old bumping into things, building dangerous structures like a plastic chair on top of the couch, rolling a ball under their legs and bending over to see where its gone only to topple over, hence my 2 year old is like a "drunk best friend"

Yeah, my little one is nearly 4 now and we've spent a lot of time where it's just the two of us, she actually seems like a 'best friend' then, we go swimming or go to the cinema the way 'friends' do I guess, but being 'friends' doesn't mean I won't tell her it's time for bed, or give out to her if she's being bold.

I can understand that it wouldn't be healthy or good to be saying lets go out drinking or do you have a spare fag but there always should be boundaries.

kylith

I often see people screaming and roaring at their kids in the street, f-ing and blinding at children who are little more than toddlers, calling them all the names under the sun, putting them down, belittling them. How are these children supposed to grow up normal, and have proper lives, when the people who are supposed to love and care for them treat them like their worst enemies? It saddens me to the very core.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I was watching a show on Channel 4 called "Skint" last night and there were some things on it that made me despair for the kids.

One mother told her daughter that her farther didn't come around because he had a new baby and didn't care about her as result. I don't care how true it is I just couldn't see any justification to tell a child that. No matter how you felt about the partner.

Another parent was screaming at her son and act like a child herself and was wondering why her son had no respect.

One not on the show but I have seen and heard numerous times is parents referring to their child as their best friend. To me that is a really bad sign of parenting skills. Your child is not your best friend and never should be. It indicates to me the parent is not putting the correct barriers to protect their child from things they should never know. Your child is also going to have real best friends.

Am I the only one who thinks a parent no matter what age the child should always have a parent child relationship?

I don't see a problem as long as they're both adults.

When younger, yes, I see your point - but at the same point you want a child to be able to both talk about anything and respectfully disagree.

Latchy

SunnyDub1 wrote: »

It's a show/documentary - anything to get ratings.

I watched it too and can safely say most of it was set up just like nearly everything on TV these days.

Yes , C 4 more sensationalist crap .

Once news gets around the run down neighbourhood that a camera crew is going to be filming in the area for a week or two the locals will oblige and crank up the anti-social behaviour , just what C 4 wants them to do .

Ray Palmer

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I don't see a problem as long as they're both adults.

When younger, yes, I see your point - but at the same point you want a child to be able to both talk about anything and respectfully disagree.

Part of it would be I doubt the child considers the parent a best friend. My mother in law treats my wife as a confidante and she hates it. Constantly telling her mother she doesn't want to hear it. Complaining about her father etc... It seemed nice when I was younger but as time has moved on it just comes across as sad.

I would think a parent who considers their child their best friend isn't very adult or mature. I see it as stifling both parties. You should never complain to your child about the other parent no matter what age.

Turtyturd

Lando Griffin wrote: »

As a loving father, I find your take on this somewhat ob skewer.

Every Sunday morning there is nothing better that watching your 2 year old bumping into things, building dangerous structures like a plastic chair on top of the couch, rolling a ball under their legs and bending over to see where its gone only to topple over, hence my 2 year old is like a "drunk best friend"

This....plus they are like a combined work out buddy. The best work out I get these days is chasing him around the aisle in tesco putting back all the stuff he takes off the shelves. Or participating in wrestling matches with him.

hatrickpatrick

kunst nugget wrote: »

Are you just after finding out that your old dog Spot wasn't actually adopted by an elderly couple?

...His name was Terry, and he's actually roaming wild on a lovely farm in Wexford right n..... Oh holy sh!t :eek::eek::eek:

kylith

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Part of it would be I doubt the child considers the parent a best friend. My mother in law treats my wife as a confidante and she hates it. Constantly telling her mother she doesn't want to hear it. Complaining about her father etc... It seemed nice when I was younger but as time has moved on it just comes across as sad.

I would think a parent who considers their child their best friend isn't very adult or mature. I see it as stifling both parties. You should never complain to your child about the other parent no matter what age.

I don't think I'd see them as immature, I think I'd see them as probably having put their friends aside when they got married or when they had the kid, and now they have no-one, so they talk to the one person they have.

My mother and I are friends now, but we definitely had a parent/child relationship while I was growing up. Some people have said that they see parents being best friends with their children so their kids will open up to them, well, I knew I could talk to my mother about anything when I was in my teens, even though we definitely had a parent/child relationship. This is because I never felt worried about her reaction, I knew that in matters of the heart, friendship, sex, whatever she would do her best to not judge me, and to offer advice through discussion rather than dictation, in a frank manner.

BrensBenz

SunnyDub1 wrote: »

It's a show/documentary - anything to get ratings.

I watched it too and can safely say most of it was set up just like nearly everything on TV these days.

Entirely correct.....almost. Hoards of Meeja Studies graduates scour the land for obnoxes, knowing that when cameras and sound booms are pointed at them, they will become even more obnoxious. Add a "caring" voiceover and you've got a ratings hit.
So, who's to blame? Networks for showing these shows? Production companies for making them? Companies for buying advertising during them? Or us, for watching them?

BTW, same goes for ragtop newspapers.

Herb Powell

bbam wrote: »

Conversation overheard by a friend who is a teacher.

6 year old girl:- " I have a new daddy"
Her friend:- "whats his name, is he nice"
6 year old:- "he's x and he's fun"
Her friend:- " yea he's fun, he used to be my daddy"

I died a bit inside when I heard this. It's a small town school, but it brought it home to me that the family unit is falling Appart and there is less and less understanding or willingness to be a family and how important it is to children.
I know I sound prehistoric but this constant bed hopping behaviour and normalising it, is a downward spiral for our society. We are all worse off as a result.

So single mothers should stay single?

Ray Palmer

kylith wrote: »

I don't think I'd see them as immature, I think I'd see them as probably having put their friends aside when they got married or when they had the kid, and now they have no-one, so they talk to the one person they have.

That to me would indicate a stifled immature person. Stop connecting with adults and your own generation and revert to a younger age.

The point being the child isn't going to see the parent as their best friend. Your own peers are an important part of life.

Trust in a parent is not the same as friendship.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Part of it would be I doubt the child considers the parent a best friend. My mother in law treats my wife as a confidante and she hates it. Constantly telling her mother she doesn't want to hear it. Complaining about her father etc... It seemed nice when I was younger but as time has moved on it just comes across as sad.

I would think a parent who considers their child their best friend isn't very adult or mature. I see it as stifling both parties. You should never complain to your child about the other parent no matter what age.

I was thinking more along the lies of the kids using it to take unfair advantages, but that kind of venting should always be off the cards. Not only from the confident angle, but because the kids then gain an unfair view of one of their parents.

Herb Powell wrote: »

So single mothers should stay single?

I think it's the idea of a "daddy" being changeable being taought to kids.

I went out with a single mother once, but I forbade the kids tocall me "Daddy".

kylith

Ray Palmer wrote: »

That to me would indicate a stifled immature person. Stop connecting with adults and your own generation and revert to a younger age.

The point being the child isn't going to see the parent as their best friend. Your own peers are an important part of life.

I'd have to disagree there. Desperation, maybe, but not necessarily immaturity. It's not uncommon for new parents to lose contact with their friends when they have a baby, especially if it's the first kid born in their social group. They can no longer go out whenever they want, they're exhausted, they're broke, and all they talk about is the baby, and not everyone can accept the change in relationship. This can lead to the mother or father relying too much on the child for their companionship.

Herb Powell

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I was thinking more along the lies of the kids using it to take unfair advantages, but that kind of venting should always be off the cards. Not only from the confident angle, but because the kids then gain an unfair view of one of their parents.



I think it's the idea of a "daddy" being changeable being taought to kids.

I went out with a single mother once, but I forbade the kids tocall me "Daddy".

I dunno, if they were 6 years old, I think it was possibly just their naieve understanding. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Herb Powell wrote: »

I dunno, if they were 6 years old, I think it was possibly just their naieve understanding. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah, I know, but it;s the kinda thing that should be discouraged.

ALiasEX

"It's good to be a dad
It's better to be a friend"

Ray Palmer

kylith wrote: »

This can lead to the mother or father relying too much on the child for their companionship.

Or as I would say bad parenting. Your child is not your friend and if you get lonely and decide they are you are not helping yourself or the child.

gubbie

BBC3 recently finished a documentary with the same topic called People Like Us. In that show what I found interesting was that everyone either wanted to spend their life on the dole or become a celebrity.

Makes you realise how lucky you are.

I think the parent-child relationship should remain until the child is an adult

gubbie

Turtyturd wrote: »

This....plus they are like a combined work out buddy. The best work out I get these days is chasing him around the aisle in tesco putting back all the stuff he takes off the shelves. Or participating in wrestling matches with him.

I think fromthetrees has put it perfectly. There's a difference between being a parent, a good parent, and a best friend. Best friends don't discipline each other. They talk about topics they wouldn't around others like their sex life and their money troubles. Parents don't, and shouldn't.

I suppose the lines are blurred because you have fun with your child, like best friends do, but best friends and good parenting are different.

I was talking to a friend who has a 2 year old. He said that he always bargains with his child to do things. Pretty normal behaviour between best friends but absolutely awful parenting

hoodwinked

it really does depend on the factors involved but imo you should be a parent to a child and just be there and supportive for your adult children,


being their 'best friend' is not good parenting, if you do things that best friends would do with your child,


my daughter and i have a great relationship, but i am her parent. as she grows older i hope she will feel able to come to me with her problems (and her successes) but by no means do i want to be clothes swopping or drinking buddies like most best friends would,

i would however still like to hang out with her at times go shopping...etc but that too is part of a good parenting relationship.

i know parents here who try too hard to be their childs best friend, all it leads to is children staying up past bedtime because mammy or daddy wants some company, or unruly disrespectful children.... it doesn't work, they need some sort of discipline especially in the early years.


its a balancing act, i also have witnessed the opposite parenting where a single mother literally beats her son, one day he came out to us crying because she wouldn't take him to the beach after promising him all week that he could go because he didn't like the biscuits she bought, it turns out she uses weak excuses like that to 'punish' him when she's looking to get out of things he wants. (myself and neighbours have heard her first hand doing this) he is now the local delinquent and its no wonder why with a home like that.

so its a delicate balance being a parent.

newsunglasses

Im in no way sticking up for the bad parents. But a lot of them are young and ill equipped to deal with life in a mature calm manner.

On top of that money is tight and they are usuall couped up with the children running in and out of the house causing a little chaos.


You can't take your eye of them,and the ones that act bad,just get off on the attention you give them for being naughty etc.

Its not easy being skint and being a parent,id imagine it is a world of stress.

the groutch

bbam wrote: »

Conversation overheard by a friend who is a teacher.

6 year old girl:- " I have a new daddy"
Her friend:- "whats his name, is he nice"
6 year old:- "he's x and he's fun"
Her friend:- " yea he's fun, he used to be my daddy"

I died a bit inside when I heard this. It's a small town school, but it brought it home to me that the family unit is falling Appart and there is less and less understanding or willingness to be a family and how important it is to children.
I know I sound prehistoric but this constant bed hopping behaviour and normalising it, is a downward spiral for our society. We are all worse off as a result.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BDzDlXWCMAAU0Og.jpg:large

McTigs

Essentially, children need to know their parents are in control. They may not like it all the time but overall that is what makes them feel safe and secure.

A parent who tries to be a best friend is gonna get worked by their kid. It's ineveitable. The kid will then feel clever having worked out how to get their own way but at the same time will lose that sense of security that they need. This in turn leads to confused unhappy kids.

If you are a parent you have to grow a pair and be the boss. Of course you can have the craic with your kids, play with them, do fun things, laugh, joke, be very open and encourage confiding.... but at the end of the day you are their parent, not their friend.

Most parents i see around me are a disaster. Kids dictating what they'll have for dinner, what they'll watch on telly etc.... both parties end up miserable. Kids subconciously do not want too much choice, they want boundries, they want rules and they want you to set them.

Of course none of this has to happen in a victorian manner. Love, affection, openness and fun are essentiall parts of family life.... but the boss is the boss and not the best friend.

This is worst than the Daily mail, People have been complaining about parenting and judging parents for a very long time, you should read some of the reports/moral panics from Victorian times, yet some how the world survived:). I am not excusing poor parenting but remember the vast majority of parents are are adequate, family's depicted in that documentary are very much in the minority.

I am so glad I don't have small children nowadays days( mine are gown up )

The constant information about parenting, the constant judging of people, its must make some people feel so inadequate at times.