Garda as a vocation, not a job

St. Leibowitz

Been mulling over this for a while.

Over the past year, I've personally met three people who are ex-police officers from UK forces (Met, City, and one of the Yorkies). I've also read of many officers being disillusioned with current conditions and prospects in the UK, and leaving. I read the thread on the reservist who was apparantly passed over for a Scott Medal, and he was also an ex-UK officer. To sum up, leaving the police in the UK seems to be as normal as leaving any other job.

When I first met an ex-police offer, I was surprised, because the only ex-Gardai I have heard of leaving force are for disciplinary or disability reasons, and those numbers seem to be very low, although I don't have the actuals. I've never heard of someone "just leaving" to take up aother job, as these guys did.

I'm sure that people leave the force, but is it an unusually low number ?? Is there a different mindset between the people who join the UK forces and people who join the Guards, or is it just that the numbers in the UK are so much bigger so there'll always be more leavers ?? Is it that the selection process is better here ?? Is it that the longer training period weeds out those whose heart isn't in the job, or who were expecting something different ?? Is it the lower pay during longer training makes sure that only those committed take that sacrifice ??

I'd be interested to see some stats on people leaving, their length of service, and the dropout rate during training. Not sure if these are available.

Any servicng members have opinions on why Guards nearly always stay the course to retirement (if indeed this is the case) ? Will new pay and conditions change this ? Is it that like many other jobs, being a Garda used to be a job for life, but with the changes that it's now becoming just another job ?

ambo112

Uk has total number of over 140,000 officers.

Average leaver rate is just over 2,000 per year that a resignation rate of just over 1.3%

AGS has 13,000 ish.....

Don't know the resignation rate but it would have to be about 169 per year to match the 1.3%

1.3% is a small figure for the UK considering the force size. I would suspect many if these are down to a range of personal reasons as opposed to training, length of training, pay etc...

bravestar

St. Leibowitz wrote: »

Been mulling over this for a while.

Over the past year, I've personally met three people who are ex-police officers from UK forces (Met, City, and one of the Yorkies). I've also read of many officers being disillusioned with current conditions and prospects in the UK, and leaving. I read the thread on the reservist who was apparantly passed over for a Scott Medal, and he was also an ex-UK officer. To sum up, leaving the police in the UK seems to be as normal as leaving any other job.

When I first met an ex-police offer, I was surprised, because the only ex-Gardai I have heard of leaving force are for disciplinary or disability reasons, and those numbers seem to be very low, although I don't have the actuals. I've never heard of someone "just leaving" to take up aother job, as these guys did.

I'm sure that people leave the force, but is it an unusually low number ?? Is there a different mindset between the people who join the UK forces and people who join the Guards, or is it just that the numbers in the UK are so much bigger so there'll always be more leavers ?? Is it that the selection process is better here ?? Is it that the longer training period weeds out those whose heart isn't in the job, or who were expecting something different ?? Is it the lower pay during longer training makes sure that only those committed take that sacrifice ??

I'd be interested to see some stats on people leaving, their length of service, and the dropout rate during training. Not sure if these are available.

Any servicng members have opinions on why Guards nearly always stay the course to retirement (if indeed this is the case) ? Will new pay and conditions change this ? Is it that like many other jobs, being a Garda used to be a job for life, but with the changes that it's now becoming just another job ?

It's quite simple. You can leave the uk forces and as long as you rejoin within X number of years, you only do a quick refresher and your back in. So you can try other things out and if they don't pan out, return.

You leave the Gardai and your gone. If you want to rejoin, you go through the same selection and training process as you did the first time around.

St. Leibowitz

bravestar wrote: »

It's quite simple. You can leave the uk forces and as long as you rejoin within X number of years, you only do a quick refresher and your back in. So you can try other things out and if they don't pan out, return.

You leave the Gardai and your gone. If you want to rejoin, you go through the same selection and training process as you did the first time around.

Didn't know that. Explains alot, and makes perfect sense, although seems like a stupid system to operate. Thank you.

Mr Simpson

Slightly OT, but the Garda reserve member was retired afaik, didnt quit

Liamos Dubs

bravestar wrote: »

It's quite simple. You can leave the uk forces and as long as you rejoin within X number of years, you only do a quick refresher and your back in. So you can try other things out and if they don't pan out, return.

You leave the Gardai and your gone. If you want to rejoin, you go through the same selection and training process as you did the first time around.

Wouldn't entirely agree with you there with career breaks there are plenty of opportunities to opt out for a while with the option to come back, getting a five year break is no problem now.

From speaking to people in the London Met the have had shift in the young people joining who now do so after college to clear student loads and become course collectors where they do as many courses and get a much training with the police as the can before toddling off to private industry with the Police training on their CV.

bravestar

Liamos Dubs wrote: »

Wouldn't entirely agree with you there with career breaks there are plenty of opportunities to opt out for a while with the option to come back, getting a five year break is no problem now.

No problem now? Really, please share your first hand knowledge of this...

From the GRA "A career break may be allowed for the purpose of further education; domestic responsibilities or child minding, or for working outside of Ireland where approved"

Outside of Ireland... where approved... hmmm, what about inside Ireland, nothing that has to be applied for and approved is ever "no problem".

Also, Liamos, where does one return to when their career break is over and their back in the job? If you don't know the answer to that then your either not in the job and don't know what your talking about or not in it long enough. If you do, then you know why people don't want career breaks.

Liamos Dubs

bravestar wrote: »

No problem now? Really, please share your first hand knowledge of this...

From the GRA "A career break may be allowed for the purpose of further education; domestic responsibilities or child minding, or for working outside of Ireland where approved"

Outside of Ireland... where approved... hmmm, what about inside Ireland, nothing that has to be applied for and approved is ever "no problem".

Also, Liamos, where does one return to when their career break is over and their back in the job? If you don't know the answer to that then your either not in the job and don't know what your talking about or not in it long enough. If you do, then you know why people don't want career breaks.

I've been in the job 15 years long enough to know that when career breaks were first introduced they came with the proviso that your career was broken. Lads went away and came back usually ended up on the Depot gate if not some other deep hole which they buried you in.

HRM used to have final say on career breaks but now the Divisional Officer has more of an input as it their personnel being lost. Last two people I know who took a career break were sent back to the same division, different station and unit but at least the same division. about seven year ago a D/O I know took two years out he was in Finglas and they moved him to Bray when he came back. They where he was told the vacany was but it fealt like a slap for taking off.

HRM are only two glad to get you out the door nowadays to reduce pay bill. If you look at the latest LRC proposals on pay if was specifically mentioned that unpaid leave and career breaks were to be facilitated. With the work time agreement I don't know whether this changed the status of working a different job in Ireland as long as it was a prohibited spare time activity.

Is that answer good enough or am I too much of a newbie to know anything.

L5

St. Leibowitz wrote: »

Is it that like many other jobs, being a Garda used to be a job for life, but with the changes that it's now becoming just another job ?

This exactly.