Guitar: Long time player, first time effects pedal buyer

C14N

I've been playing guitar on and off for about 5 years now and as usual I'm expecting to step up my playing a good bit for summer. Something I've become quite infatuated with is using an loop pedal to just help me quickly practice and record some songs. I like the look of the Jam Man Stereo as a start out pedal but I'm going to need an effects pedal or two to go with it.

See here's the thing, since I got an electric guitar I have been using a Roland Micro Cube as my amp (I don't play live, I just play as a hobby for myself and sometimes record for fun) and all the effects and sounds I've ever used have come through the built in ones on that. But aside from wanting to increase the quality, I won't be able to use that with the looper as the effects are supposed to plug into the input and the amp to the out. So I've been looking at pedals and it's kind of overwhelming. There are so many out there that it really is hard to figure out where to start.

I have a general idea of what most pedals do and I think I'll want some kind of distortion or overdrive pedal at least and maybe something like a wah or a delay. But how do I know what to go for and what's a good price to spend?

I'd be very grateful for any help anyone had to offer.

wild turkey

Pedals & effects can be a very expensive mind boggling hobby in its self
What sounds amazing on YouTube demos will sound completely different in your rig.
I have been very dissapointed by some expensive & pleasantly surprised by some cheap ones

I would say go down the multieffects route if your not sure
pick up a good multi-effects on adverts & if it doesnt suit you probably wont lose money on it

il gatto

I'd say save your money and buy a better amp. Sounds harsh but no point putting a nice overdrive pedal through a micro cube. They're designed to be an all in one solution for learners, practice and portability.
Get a small valve amp and you have a nice gain tone already which means you don't need (hah! We never really need) an od pedal.
Loop pedals are pricey but I can't remember how much that one costs. They're fun but limited enough in their uses i find. If you have an iPad or iPhone, get GarageBand (€5 or €10 I think). You can quickly record a basic rhythm track and then play or record a lead track over it. You just need headphones or plug it into PC speakers or stereo, and an irig. They're about €30. I got it just to practice silently and ended up recording some pretty nice tunes on it.
Just my tuppence worth. Others may feel differently.

KeithTS

il gatto wrote: »

I'd say save your money and buy a better amp. Sounds harsh but no point putting a nice overdrive pedal through a micro cube. They're designed to be an all in one solution for learners, practice and portability.
Get a small valve amp and you have a nice gain tone already which means you don't need (hah! We never really need) an od pedal.
Loop pedals are pricey but I can't remember how much that one costs. They're fun but limited enough in their uses i find. If you have an iPad or iPhone, get GarageBand (€5 or €10 I think). You can quickly record a basic rhythm track and then play or record a lead track over it. You just need headphones or plug it into PC speakers or stereo, and an irig. They're about €30. I got it just to practice silently and ended up recording some pretty nice tunes on it.
Just my tuppence worth. Others may feel differently.

Completely disagree.
Ok, a better amp is always a good thing and effects the sounds you produce infinitely, not right for what you are looking for though.

I'd also recommend going for a multi-effects unit in this situation. It won't give you the best overall quality of sounds but will give you a lot of different things you can experiment with and learn what you like/don't like.

I saw somebody selling a Boss GT6 on Adverts for €150 or so a while back, if you can get something like that you will be laughing, it's a solid pedal and will set you back the shame price as a decent OD pedal on its own.

As far as loopers go, I use an RC3 and RC20, both affect the tone a small bit but you won't even notice that. You won't find a better tool to help you practice than a decent loop pedal.

martinedwards

I have a pod xt live which my son steals to play into his looper.

Multi FX are great for checking to see what FX you actually like before spending big money on singles.

a zoom 505 will cost less than £20 on ebay.......

C14N

wild turkey wrote: »

Pedals & effects can be a very expensive mind boggling hobby in its self
What sounds amazing on YouTube demos will sound completely different in your rig.
I have been very dissapointed by some expensive & pleasantly surprised by some cheap ones

I would say go down the multieffects route if your not sure
pick up a good multi-effects on adverts & if it doesnt suit you probably wont lose money on it

Thanks for the warning. So do multi-effects pedals still give you a decent amount of customisation options? One thing that always annoyed me about the Cube effects was the limited amount of stuff you could do (for example with the flanger it just went higher or lower whereas on the dedicated pedals there are a few different options so you can get all sorts of different sounds.

il gatto wrote: »

I'd say save your money and buy a better amp. Sounds harsh but no point putting a nice overdrive pedal through a micro cube. They're designed to be an all in one solution for learners, practice and portability.
Get a small valve amp and you have a nice gain tone already which means you don't need (hah! We never really need) an od pedal.
Loop pedals are pricey but I can't remember how much that one costs. They're fun but limited enough in their uses i find. If you have an iPad or iPhone, get GarageBand (€5 or €10 I think). You can quickly record a basic rhythm track and then play or record a lead track over it. You just need headphones or plug it into PC speakers or stereo, and an irig. They're about €30. I got it just to practice silently and ended up recording some pretty nice tunes on it.
Just my tuppence worth. Others may feel differently.

Well to be honest I probably won't be using the Cube for anything serious, just to practice a song with since I don't busk or play in a band or anything. I usually plug right into my audio interface to record since it can amplify the signal itself. I'd love a valve amp but any valve amps I've ever seen would be far outside my price range right now.

The loop pedal I'm looking at is around €180. I actually use Garageband to record on my Mac laptop most of the time but I've just found that the fiddley-ness of software (in general, not specifically for GB) and the effort of setting it up to practice has been off putting in the past. I still use it for the actual recording process because it's some of the easiest recording out there but I just find it too much hassle for when I have a few minutes to practice.

KeithTS wrote: »

I'd also recommend going for a multi-effects unit in this situation. It won't give you the best overall quality of sounds but will give you a lot of different things you can experiment with and learn what you like/don't like.

I saw somebody selling a Boss GT6 on Adverts for €150 or so a while back, if you can get something like that you will be laughing, it's a solid pedal and will set you back the shame price as a decent OD pedal on its own.

As far as loopers go, I use an RC3 and RC20, both affect the tone a small bit but you won't even notice that. You won't find a better tool to help you practice than a decent loop pedal.

I was looking at the RC3 as well (around the same price as the Jam Man and they're both single track) but I ended up leaning more toward the Jam Man because it has a microphone input too. I might still add an RC down the line though if I want another track or two.

Would that be this ad here? It's a little pricey but I might be able to stretch for that. There are a few GT8s floating around for about the same price too. I get the impression that's the newer model so would that be better to go for? There are some others going a bit cheaper too (mostly Boss ME range and some Zoom models), does the GT6 offer much that these don't?

Also silly question but can you turn effects on and off on these things with the pedals while playing? I've always found it annoying that I have to start fiddling with knobs with the Cube to change effects during a song. And does that pedal on most of the boards act as a whammy?

Sorry for the avalanche of questions

Edit: Been looking at the Boss ME models too and they look pretty cool. I was just wondering if there's much of a down side to these?

Generic Dreadhead

Ok, speaking as someone who has used Mulit-effects Units for years (GT-6) and also using tons of individual pedals I can offer you some advice.

1: Step away from the Zoom products - they're awful, truly awful most people would agree.
2: Value for money wise a Boss Me-50 or GT-6 are very worthwhile second hand. You get everything you'll need. The sound is maybe 80% as good as if the effects where in individual pedals (but the difference will be negligible in the amp you are using)
3: If you do get a multi-effects pedal. READ THE MANUAL. messing around with teh pedal will be fun. But you will NEVER be using the pedal to it's fullest capabilities until you do... then after you've had the pedal a few months, READ THE MANUAL AGAIN. If you don't do this early you will get stuck in a rut. The pay off will be worth it.
4: Loop pedal wise, go for a Boss RC-XL20. It has a Mic Input and more flexible and easier to use than a RC-3 (which IMHO is overpriced). The 2 switches make it more practical.

topcatcbr

C14N wrote: »

I like the look of the Jam Man Stereo as a start out pedal but I'm going to need an effects pedal or two to go with it.

See here's the thing, since I got an electric guitar I have been using a Roland Micro Cube as my amp (I don't play live, I just play as a hobby for myself and sometimes record for fun) and all the effects and sounds I've ever used have come through the built in ones on that. But aside from wanting to increase the quality, I won't be able to use that with the looper as the effects are supposed to plug into the input and the amp to the out. So I've been looking at pedals and it's kind of overwhelming. There are so many out there that it really is hard to figure out where to

I'd be very grateful for any help anyone had to offer.

I recently bought the new jamman solo and love it. Especially for laying down a track on acoustic and then plugging electric over.

Great for practicing scales. I did the same as you when buying an amp. I got a vox vt40+ which gives great sounds but does not have an effects loop. I regret that now. There is an aftermarket mod can be done to install one but I'm not sure if its worth it.

I think the jamman is much better value than the boss Rc

KeithTS

Agree here.
With the Zoom pedals you get what you pay for and they don't sound great.

Regarding the question about the GT-8 being better than the GT-6, well I own both and always go back to the GT-6. The 8 has a couple of extras but the overall tone isn't as good and it's a lot trickier to use.
The GT-6 is very easy to set and configure custom sounds, and yes you have a load of different options for switching in and out of effects.
Youtube it and you'll get a good feel of the capabilities.

That's the Ad I was referring to, I'm in no way affiliated with the seller btw. Regarding the price I don't know if they'd shift but for 150 you'd be getting a range of OD/distortion, delay, reverb, chorus, flange, wah, phasers and loads more so as far as value for money goes i'd say its your best bet especially since you don't really know what effects you really want.

il gatto

KeithTS wrote: »

Completely disagree.
Ok, a better amp is always a good thing and effects the sounds you produce infinitely, not right for what you are looking for though.

I'd also recommend going for a multi-effects unit in this situation. It won't give you the best overall quality of sounds but will give you a lot of different things you can experiment with and learn what you like/don't like.

I saw somebody selling a Boss GT6 on Adverts for €150 or so a while back, if you can get something like that you will be laughing, it's a solid pedal and will set you back the shame price as a decent OD pedal on its own.

As far as loopers go, I use an RC3 and RC20, both affect the tone a small bit but you won't even notice that. You won't find a better tool to help you practice than a decent loop pedal.

We'll agree to disagree so I believe the amp has the single biggest impact on guitar tone as long as your guitar is not complete junk. I have a friend with a Micro Cube and it's a neat little package but putting hundreds of euros of effects through it means you'll never come close to reaching those effects potential.
It's the nature of guitar though. Everyone has their strongly held opinions. I would always suggest taking the €200-€300 you're willing to spend and get a small watt valve amp and nail a basic couple of sounds before worrying about covering all the bases immediately.

KeithTS

il gatto wrote: »

We'll agree to disagree so I believe the amp has the single biggest impact on guitar tone as long as your guitar is not complete junk. I have a friend with a Micro Cube and it's a neat little package but putting hundreds of euros of effects through it means you'll never come close to reaching those effects potential.
It's the nature of guitar though. Everyone has their strongly held opinions. I would always suggest taking the €200-€300 you're willing to spend and get a small watt valve amp and nail a basic couple of sounds before worrying about covering all the bases immediately.

Oh no, i agree 100% with the amp being the greatest factor re tone, my understanding is that the OP wants to be able to play through a loop pedal and be able to record clean and play over that with effects and so on.

The reason I disagreed with you was that a nice amp won't allow this, although, the general tone will be improved

il gatto

KeithTS wrote: »

Oh no, i agree 100% with the amp being the greatest factor re tone, my understanding is that the OP wants to be able to play through a loop pedal and be able to record clean and play over that with effects and so on.

The reason I disagreed with you was that a nice amp won't allow this, although, the general tone will be improved

Re: the loop pedal, I like them but was just putting forward something like GarageBand is a cheap alternative.
I was suggesting a new amp as an alternative to an od or wah etc. They'd come to €200+, as alot of multi effects would. For that you could pick up a Vox AC4TV, VHT Special 6 Ultra etc. There's a Blackstar Ht5 on Done Deal at the moment for €250. I took delivery of a Blackstar HT-1R today. Haven't got a chance to try it yet. I just think that that would be money better spent than buying effects and putting them through the Micro Cube. More bottom end, louder and real tube tone. Maybe I'm just old fashioned .
Lots of good advice for the op here. Ultimately I suppose he'll have to play a few things and research and make up his own mind where the money is best spent.

C14N

Cormac... wrote: »

Ok, speaking as someone who has used Mulit-effects Units for years (GT-6) and also using tons of individual pedals I can offer you some advice.

1: Step away from the Zoom products - they're awful, truly awful most people would agree.
2: Value for money wise a Boss Me-50 or GT-6 are very worthwhile second hand. You get everything you'll need. The sound is maybe 80% as good as if the effects where in individual pedals (but the difference will be negligible in the amp you are using)
3: If you do get a multi-effects pedal. READ THE MANUAL. messing around with teh pedal will be fun. But you will NEVER be using the pedal to it's fullest capabilities until you do... then after you've had the pedal a few months, READ THE MANUAL AGAIN. If you don't do this early you will get stuck in a rut. The pay off will be worth it.
4: Loop pedal wise, go for a Boss RC-XL20. It has a Mic Input and more flexible and easier to use than a RC-3 (which IMHO is overpriced). The 2 switches make it more practical.

Cheers for the advice.

1) Okay will do.
2) I can take a small sound quality drop like that. I'm just not sure which one would be better for me. They're both going for around €100-150 online and they seem to have similar effects so I just don't really know what the difference is. Anyone have any advice on that?
3) That's definitely guaranteed for me anyway.
4) I was planning on getting the Jam Man for €200 originally but I ended up grabbing an RC 30 off Adverts for €250 instead. It's a bit pricey but I decided that I really do want the second track that it has. I've heard good things about it so hopefully it works out.

KeithTS wrote: »

That's the Ad I was referring to, I'm in no way affiliated with the seller btw. Regarding the price I don't know if they'd shift but for 150 you'd be getting a range of OD/distortion, delay, reverb, chorus, flange, wah, phasers and loads more so as far as value for money goes i'd say its your best bet especially since you don't really know what effects you really want.

Oh no I wasn't accusing you of that at all, I found 3 or 4 different ones going for the same price, I just grabbed one of them.

KeithTS wrote: »

Oh no, i agree 100% with the amp being the greatest factor re tone, my understanding is that the OP wants to be able to play through a loop pedal and be able to record clean and play over that with effects and so on.

Yep, that's it.:)


Anyway TL:DNR:
What is the main difference between the GT6 and the ME-50?

KeithTS

The ME-50 is essentially a smaller pedal with a bit less functionality than the GT-6, saying that it has a good tone and is till very popular even though they are old, the ME-50 is more like having a few stomp boxes side by side which a lot of people like.

Personally I prefer the GT-6, there's more options, and a lot more patches to save your custom sounds but the thing that seals it for me is the display.
You can set all of your effects very precisely as the exact value is displayed digitally where with the ME-50, if memory serves correct, you dial up everthing using knobs and there's no display of the exact value.
This becomes useful when you need a very precise delay for hitting on the beat for instance, if you are recording at 120 bpm you may want your delay at 480 for instance to fall every 4 or whatever and the ME doesn't have that precision.


None of these multi-effects options will stand up to specialised pedals that are there to do one job really well, if they did nobody would haul a dozen stomp boxes to and from gigs, however, they are suited to your needs and are a great learning tool to find out what sounds you like if nothing else.

slavetothegrind

Have you considered computer based modellers?
I have guitar rig 5 and use it for practise, very very versatile and good for experimenting with sounds.

I believe phil collen of def leppard records with this software all the time ( found out later, not reason for purchase)

My favourite sound though is my Ht1R through a marshall 1922 cab.

Recently did a direct comparison of this versus pod x3 live through desk and mackie srm450

Whilst the sounds in the pod are excellent it just lacked the balls, and sheer presence of the amp.

That said the owner of the pod was not convinced, it is a very subjective matter i suppose.

Look at the JOJO pedals too op, lot of info on here on them, they are really good and really cheap!

C14N

KeithTS wrote: »

The ME-50 is essentially a smaller pedal with a bit less functionality than the GT-6, saying that it has a good tone and is till very popular even though they are old, the ME-50 is more like having a few stomp boxes side by side which a lot of people like.

Personally I prefer the GT-6, there's more options, and a lot more patches to save your custom sounds but the thing that seals it for me is the display.
You can set all of your effects very precisely as the exact value is displayed digitally where with the ME-50, if memory serves correct, you dial up everthing using knobs and there's no display of the exact value.
This becomes useful when you need a very precise delay for hitting on the beat for instance, if you are recording at 120 bpm you may want your delay at 480 for instance to fall every 4 or whatever and the ME doesn't have that precision.

Ah okay. Been checking out the manuals for each and I kind of see what you mean. The difference is that the pedals on the GT6 each activate a certain combination of effects that are stored in the memory while on the ME-50, each pedal activates an individual effect (such as overdrive or delay). It sounds like the GT6 is a little more complex but it allows for a much wider range of sounds in a single song which I like. I think I'll go for it over the ME-50.

slavetothegrind wrote: »

Have you considered computer based modellers?
I have guitar rig 5 and use it for practise, very very versatile and good for experimenting with sounds.

I actually have given the Guitar Rig 5 demo a go and it sounded quite good. The only thing was that I found the sheer number of different sounds to be somewhat overwhelming, especially as someone who isn't really used to experimenting with any effects at all. Also, a software option just wouldn't work in this case. Since I'm using the loop pedal, if I want to loop a part with an effect I need the effect to go before the loop. If I have the effects on after the loop then they'll all change at the same time. Also, it doesn't easily allow me to change effects on the fly since I have to return to the computer to adjust them.

Generic Dreadhead

You've come to a good decision with the GT-6.
I bought one a year after playing guitar (about 10 years ago when the GT-6 was new) cause I wanted to learn about effects and see which ones I'd use and not use.
Playing through any Combo Amp will give you a sound indicative of what the effect is essectially going to do.
You'll probably find like 4-7 effects you like most, then in the future, you can get these pedals individually.
The ME-50 is meant to have slightly better tone, but in a 30watt wamp, this won't be noticeable.
Plus if I understand Keiths post correctly (and with my limited ME-50 knowledge) you have to turn each effect on and off individually. Where as the GT-6 has a "Bank" of effects assigned to each pedal.
My own personal example I used for like 10 years was this.

Bank 1 - Pedal 1 - Compressor -> EQ -> Pitchshifter -> Chorus -> Reverb
Bank 1 - Pedal 2 - Anti Feedbacker -> EQ -> Sub EQ -> Distortion

This allowed me to change from 5 pedals on to turning those 5 pedals off and turning a seperate set of 4 pedals on (not possible in the ME-50, or at least not as easy as with the the GT-6)
IS what I'm saying making sense.... i tend to rant sometimes

C14N

Cormac... wrote: »

You've come to a good decision with the GT-6.
I bought one a year after playing guitar (about 10 years ago when the GT-6 was new) cause I wanted to learn about effects and see which ones I'd use and not use.
Playing through any Combo Amp will give you a sound indicative of what the effect is essectially going to do.
You'll probably find like 4-7 effects you like most, then in the future, you can get these pedals individually.
The ME-50 is meant to have slightly better tone, but in a 30watt wamp, this won't be noticeable.
Plus if I understand Keiths post correctly (and with my limited ME-50 knowledge) you have to turn each effect on and off individually. Where as the GT-6 has a "Bank" of effects assigned to each pedal.
My own personal example I used for like 10 years was this.

Bank 1 - Pedal 1 - Compressor -> EQ -> Pitchshifter -> Chorus -> Reverb
Bank 1 - Pedal 2 - Anti Feedbacker -> EQ -> Sub EQ -> Distortion

This allowed me to change from 5 pedals on to turning those 5 pedals off and turning a seperate set of 4 pedals on (not possible in the ME-50, or at least not as easy as with the the GT-6)
IS what I'm saying making sense.... i tend to rant sometimes

Yeah I understand you. I've gone and bought one of the ones on Adverts anyway, should be meeting up with the guy to buy it on Monday. Excited to get started anyway!

KeithTS

C14N wrote: »

Yeah I understand you. I've gone and bought one of the ones on Adverts anyway, should be meeting up with the guy to buy it on Monday. Excited to get started anyway!

Enjoy it.
Spend a bit of time getting to know how to use it and you should get a lot of enjoyment out of it

C14N

KeithTS wrote: »

Enjoy it.
Spend a bit of time getting to know how to use it and you should get a lot of enjoyment out of it

I'm sure I will. Thanks to everyone here for all the help by the way. Would have taken me a while to figure out where to start otherwise.

artvandulet

C14N wrote: »

I'm sure I will. Thanks to everyone here for all the help by the way. Would have taken me a while to figure out where to start otherwise.

Sounds too late by now but I would have suggested a fender GDec 3-30.
It would have killed 2 birds with one stone. It's a multi fx amp with in built looper and has usb for recording If you want it. It's perfect for what you described in your original post! ! Great little amp.

C14N

artvandulet wrote: »

Sounds too late by now but I would have suggested a fender GDec 3-30.
It would have killed 2 birds with one stone. It's a multi fx amp with in built looper and has usb for recording If you want it. It's perfect for what you described in your original post! ! Great little amp.

It does look like a pretty nice little unit but at the same time, it's nice to have pedals to switch effects mid song, as well as having the 2 loop tracks that I got with my RC-30.

artvandulet

You can switch fx mid song with the (optional) 4 button footswitch. You can create & save fx patches and share and download others online. Play along to jam tracks. Record your own direct to the unit. It comes with a version of Ableton Live & Amplitube. For home practice it really is perfect. I had a modded Fender Champ, Jamman looper and other pedals in the past but its all just more 'stuff' you have to plug in and link up when you want to just pick up your guitar and play - I have limited space at home. I keep that other stuff packed up for playing with others. With the GDec its all in the amp.
Can you tell that I like it yet?