Opinions needed for children's first ever visit with dad

MoonDancer

Hi there,
I had my kids in America, they are 7 and 10. Their dad left when our second was just born. We are separated, since then, and I moved back home to Ireland when the youngest was 2 months old.
He has never come see them in the almost 8 years we have been home. Never talks to them, but in the last couple of years has been sending Christmas & birthday presents over, I've received maintenance payment maybe 10 times in the almost 8 years.
My son just got a phone, and now is able to use an app to text his dad for free over the internet. His dad was texting him, saying he would love him and his brother to come over for the summer. As you could tell, my son is over the moon with the hopes of meeting his dad.
I am in favour of them knowing their dad, and developing a relationship.

Anyway my questions are:
Is a summer too long for them to visit their dad in America without me, for their first visit? What would you recommend? For him to stay in Ireland for a couple of weeks to develop a relationship first before they go to America. He is a stranger to them. My oldest knew him for 2 years, and my youngest never really knew him.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

I have no experience in this however in my opinion, the summer would be far too long.

I would want him to come here for at least 2 weeks , visit everyday at first, then take them out for a day, then maybe a night.

If all goes well then maybe they could go for a week or two.

MoonDancer

Yeah I think a summer is too long, but I just don't want to be selfish either. I was thinking 2 weeks in America for the longest, but I think they may need to become familiar with each other before they go without me.
I would love to go with them and stay at a friends house, but I can't afford that.

Moonbeam

maybe ask him to visit them instead?

2xj3hplqgsbkym

Your not being selfish, you are looking out for them.
They might not like it there, they might not get on with him, he might not be able to manage them, they will miss you, they could be homesick etc...
2 weeks is manageable for them even if any of the above happen.

pwurple

I'd be wary as well. Have you kept in contact with him yourself, do you still know him well? People can change a good deal in 8 years. Who else is in his life, because they will also be interacting with your children.

Can you go too?

MoonDancer

pwurple wrote: »

I'd be wary as well. Have you kept in contact with him yourself, do you still know him well? People can change a good deal in 8 years. Who else is in his life, because they will also be interacting with your children.

Can you go too?

Yeah we have kept in contact through facebook. He is engaged now and they have a child together.
I am a student, and struggling just to get the bills paid, so I really wouldn't be able to afford to go.
I think I will tell him to come over for the first visit.
I have been listening to him say he was coming over for 8 years or so, and he still hasn't. I just hope he doesn't drag this on with my son, because his hopes are high at the thought of seeing his dad.

071_Foamer

I wouldn't advise letting your kids visit him without you present.
The fact of the matter is that you havn't seen him for years and he is effectively a stranger to them.
You don't know what company he keeps, what sort his wife is or what types he hangs out with or if he is even suitable to have unsupervised access to children. There are too many unknown's here and too much risk.
You wouldn't let your children stay in a random strangers house.

You could go there with your children as a holiday if needs be so you can supervise them while they visit.
Is he Irish or is he American?
I would be cautious about them being in another country with him and without you as you don't know what sort of plans these fellas might have. What if he gets them over and then won't let them come home?

You are not being selfish, you are just looking out for YOUR kids - if he gave half a sh!te at all he wouldn't have left you high and dry in the first place.
If he genuinely want's to see them he will have no problem travelling over to Ireland to do so, since he is the one suggesting a visit. And why should you have to pay 3 plane tickets? He is the one who deserted you and he has to be the one to make the effort.

If he gieves you greif, tell him go do one. He is the selfish one here.

lonestargirl

As the kids were born in the US they are American and need US passports to travel there. This requires both parents to travel to the embassy or else the non-present parent to present notarised consent and costs $105 each. I think they are too small to travel on their own also (certainly must be 12 for Aer Lingus).

I would be very wary of letting them travel to US baring in mind they (and presumably their dad?) are citizens. I think establishing more of a relationship, e.g. weekly Skype is a good start and then maybe all three of you could visit.

newsunglasses

I think like a lot of the posters said in one line,is you need to be there too,the children need you to be there,he could be a very different man.

With you there there is less danger your children might face dissapointment alone,if it comes to that.

From facebook,you dont really know fully whats going on in his life apart from he's engaged etc..

hawkwind23

dont be listening to neurotics foaming at the mouth with bitterness.

its great you are encouraging both the father and children to form a relationship.

my tuppence-worth would be ....

is it possible for father and family to come to ireland for a holiday? that would be handy and my best solution.

it may not be practical and thats understandable, so i think next would be lots of talking.
it would appear the father has a stable and loving environment for the kids and thats great but we worry things might not work out and all that , however these fears rarely manifest. when i was a kid a month in america would be been a dream come true , but who knows? i think you are happy the enviroment is good so id talk to the kids and sound them out. a month is a long time and i dont think the kids could travel alone anyways.

what about kids going over with a close friend or family member? or get a kind person to sub you a ticket

tough one , i think if the kids cant travel alone that may force the issue.

but i must admire your determination to accommodate a relationship with both parents for the benefit of the kids.

best of luck with things

newsunglasses

Who's neurotic,i hope you werent referring to me,i think its a fair point that he shouldnt be with the kids without proper supervision until she knows who he's hanging out with and they are not in any immediate danger.

Then maybe (when the mother is sure) on the next visit he promised for over 8 years,they can go alone unsupervised.

hawkwind23

i am sorry , i wasnt referring to you in any way.
i should of said nothing but i was annoyed at a previous poster insinuating that the father was some sort of serial killer or pedophile and wrote that. foamer or something.

your views are to be applauded , its a tough one but i think where you are is about right.
make him commit and visit to see the kids and mean it and fingers crossed he can be there for them and holidays in the future.

newsunglasses

Yeah i read some of the foamer comments,a bit hot and heated lol..

Im all for an amicable result,i have a friend who is a single mother of two children and they fight and fight,i think it is a tragedy to see children witnessing that.

At least these two are trying to come to some sound arrangements.

hawkwind23

i cant recommend the following book enough.

http://www.amazon.com/Divorce-Poison-New-Updated-Bad-mouthing/dp/0061863262

even if you are happily married , it gives a good insight into how a child sees things and the impact what we say has on them.

id especially recommend it for foamer along with therapy

MoonDancer

Thanks for all the comments.
The kids would not be travelling alone ever. Their dad said he'd travel over to Ireland and bring them back, but I think him coming over a couple of times first before we talk about them going to America would be a good idea.
I just needed other people's opinions on the situation. When you're stuck in the middle of a decision, it's kind of hard to know if you're making the right decisions.
They had an American passport when we came home first. That is now out of date, so if they were to travel over, I would get them an Irish passport. I have been in chats with their dad about getting them another passport a couple of years ago, because I wanted to go on a holiday, and he had no problem signing it. I also have a solicitor, and she said even if he didn't sign it, I could get a judge to waive his signature because he isn't in their life.

LittleBook

We're in almost exactly the same situation as you, my daughter's father is in America and they've been apart more or less since she was born.

Firstly:

MoonDancer wrote: »

His dad was texting him, saying he would love him and his brother to come over for the summer. As you could tell, my son is over the moon with the hopes of meeting his dad.

This is a huge no-no and you need to tell your ex this. He cannot suggest things as important as this directly to the kids without discussing it with you first. As it is, whatever happens now, you risk being the bad guy because he's circumvented you. It's not respectful and it leaves you with a huge headache.

MoonDancer wrote: »

Is a summer too long for them to visit their dad in America without me, for their first visit? What would you recommend? For him to stay in Ireland for a couple of weeks to develop a relationship first before they go to America. He is a stranger to them. My oldest knew him for 2years, and my youngest never really knew him.

The best option is for him (and his family if he likes) to travel here and spend some time with them and build a relationship with them on their home ground ... and take it from there.

Honestly, it's impossible to plan trips for kids their age until you have a better idea of how it will all go.

And if there comes a time when you decide that they are able for the trip, you'll have to sit down and explain to them in detail what's involved in the journey, obviously they're clueless! Would the 7-year-old even go with him? The 10-year-old may be "over the moon" at the thought of meeting his dad (bless him) but would HE even be ok with being away from Mammy for two weeks?

If you want to chat about this more, feel free to PM me.

LittleBook

MoonDancer wrote: »

They had an American passport when we came home first. That is now out of date, so if they were to travel over, I would get them an Irish passport. I have been in chats with their dad about getting them another passport a couple of years ago, because I wanted to go on a holiday, and he had no problem signing it. I also have a solicitor, and she said even if he didn't sign it, I could get a judge to waive his signature because he isn't in their life.

Just on this ... were you married, do you have joint guardianship? If yes, then yes you would need to involve a judge to disregard the other guardian's consent. However, if you have sole custody, you just need the below affidavit witnessed by a solicitor.

Sole guaradian affidavit

More info here:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/travel_abroad/passports/passports_for_children.html

And here:

http://www.treoir.ie/cms-assets/documents/updated%20leaflets%2028th%20feb/16547-829422.passport-applications-for-children.pdf

MurdyWurdy

Just a heads up, if they had American passports it's illegal for them to enter the states on an Irish passport. I have dual Irish/American citizenship and my American passport has expired. I rang the embassy to see how long I had to renew it as I was getting married a year after it expired and wanted to renew it in my married name so wanted to wait (you have 5 years btw to renew it via the normal process, after that you have to jump through hoops at the embassy!). I travel on my Irish passport. They told me it was no problem not to renew straight away but that I could not travel through or to the states without renewing it - as an American citizen you have to enter the states on your US passport.

Now, how they know if you've entered the US with another country's passport, or if they even can, I don't know but it may be worth your while checking with the embassy.

As they can have dual nationality it might also be worth just getting them both US and Irish passports (loads of people think this is not allowed by the US government but it is). Could be handy for them in the future.

OU812

The American government will not send home a child of an American citizen. Your children are American with an American dad, if he wanted to keep them there, there's nothing you can do about it.

Get proper legal advise & also don't let them travel on their own.

Apart from the fact they don't know him at all. It's all well and good him just coming back & bringing them to America (what kid wouldn't want to do that)

lonestargirl

MurdyWurdy wrote: »

Just a heads up, if they had American passports it's illegal for them to enter the states on an Irish passport. I have dual Irish/American citizenship and my American passport has expired. I rang the embassy to see how long I had to renew it as I was getting married a year after it expired and wanted to renew it in my married name so wanted to wait (you have 5 years btw to renew it via the normal process, after that you have to jump through hoops at the embassy!). I travel on my Irish passport. They told me it was no problem not to renew straight away but that I could not travel through or to the states without renewing it - as an American citizen you have to enter the states on your US passport.

Now, how they know if you've entered the US with another country's passport, or if they even can, I don't know but it may be worth your while checking with the embassy.

As they can have dual nationality it might also be worth just getting them both US and Irish passports (loads of people think this is not allowed by the US government but it is). Could be handy for them in the future.

+1, I am the parent of a US citizen child and they must use their US passports to enter and leave. Given that the US give citizenship by birth and your place of birth is printed on your Irish passport it could easily be spotted.

As US citizens they are also liable to file tax returns once they turn 18

Lola92

As a previous poster mentioned, this would send alarm bells ringing in my head if he suggested the children coming over to them directly, before discussing the matter with you and trying to come to some mutually agreeable arrangement. It would not really be appropriate for him to say things like that to the children and risk getting their hopes dashed, particularly as you mentioned he has been planning to come and visit for several years and nothing has ever come of it

I would also echo that it would be best for their father to come and spend some time with them over here first. Daily visits to begin with and then building up to over nights, a weekend, etc. Have your children ever been away from you for any length of time previous to this, think about sleepovers, staying with grandparents/other relatives - was homesickness ever a problem? This could factor hugely if they were to go to the US for a month.

How about your ex's current partner? Do you or the children know her at all from speaking through skype etc.? Are they aware that being with their dad, his partner and a new baby will be a situation that they may not be used to - the much more divided attention, fuss about the baby and so on.

Personally speaking I do not think that I could allow my child to go to another continent with their (predominantly absent) father and his partner who I did not know, or any person that I did not know, to be honest. I would also seek legal advice re: what may happen if the kids dad was to seek some kind of custody arrangement over there, especially considering the fact that they are American born and you are not.

MoonDancer

Thanks for all the replies.
We have a separation agreement through a lawyer in America before I moved home. We have joint custody, and I am the primary carer of the children. It also states that I have his permission to move to Ireland with the kids.
I have been in contact with my solicitor here a few times, and because the kids have been living in Ireland for so long, and they are in school, this means that Ireland is their home (habitual residence).
Read about The Hague Convention law.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/services_and_supports_for_children/international_child_abduction.html

I don't want to get this thread locked by talking about this, if it's not allowed.
I appreciate all your advice and I will definitely take the advice from my solicitor, if I need to.

Well I have decided that they are not going to go to America until they are older and know their dad better.

My youngest gets homesick every time he is away for sleepovers. So that is something to think about.

They haven't even talked to their dad once on skype or MSN. The last time I tried to arrange it, he told me he hasn't set up his webcam yet. How can you not set up your webcam in almost 8 years to talk to your kids eh!

CrazyRabbit

Frequent video chats over Skype would be a first step. Let them all get to know each other a bit. Then a visit from him to Ireland would be the logical next step. That way the kids are in a familiar secure environment. Only then would an extended trip to the US be appropriate.
Baby steps...it has to be handled carefully.

LittleBook

MoonDancer wrote: »

My son just got a phone, and now is able to use an app to text his dad for free over the internet. His dad was texting him, saying he would love him and his brother to come over for the summer. As you could tell, my son is over the moon with the hopes of meeting his dad.

MoonDancer wrote: »

They haven't even talked to their dad once on skype or MSN. The last time I tried to arrange it, he told me he hasn't set up his webcam yet. How can you not set up your webcam in almost 8 years to talk to your kids eh!

So they've never actually even spoken to him?

In that case I'd find it difficult to believe what he "said" wasn't a spur of the moment comment rather than an actual invitation. It's hard to take someone seriously who texts their kid because it's free but can't take the time to actually speak to them or Skype with them.

One thing you might want to consider is if your son invited himself over. What I mean is, your son might be desperate enough to have more contact him that he would say something like "Dad, would you like it if I came to visit you?" and Dad replies "Of course I'd like that!". Have a quiet, casual chat with him to see if you can glean more information about how this came about.

My heart goes out to your son because I get the impression that if you say to your ex that he needs to come to Ireland if he wants to see his sons, they'll be a long time waiting.