Protein

Murphj7

Hey all. Do any of you take protein shakes after a good spin?

Brad768

I don't at the moment. But during the summer when I have loads of spare time (advantage of being a student) and start to train hard, I will then as an easy way to take in what my body needs

Pawlie

Kinetic Recovery for me after all training spins,and a good nights sleep to let muscles repair and recover.
Yea cant beat some lovely hard boiled eggs or chicken after a training spin during the day either :-)

Hmmzis

Yes, sometimes. Tried high5 4:1, SIS 3:1 and maxifuel 3:1 mixes. The maxifuel and high5 are the better tasting ones, the high5 doesn't have a taste at all and the maxifuel one tastes a bit like orange juice. The SIS banana taste has a strange aftertaste, not bad but just strange.

smacl

I use "4 goodness shakes" if I'm feeling wrecked after a long spin. I find they do ease up the aches, pains and tiredness on the next day. Handy when doing a few long days on the road.

martinbourke11

taking recommended dose of USN protein recovery shake but very upset stomach within an hour afterwards. does anyone else experience this? taking it 20mins after i get off the bike and eating a good meal in the next hour..... anybody see anything wrong with this?:(:(:(

wotdef

martinbourke11 wrote: »

. anybody see anything wrong with this?:(:(:(

No, nothing wrong. Probably just that particular brand doesn't agree with you. Might be down to one particular ingredient. Possibly the sweetener.

Laundry_Hamper

This stuff is pretty great after a hard ride.

http://discount-supplements.co.uk/xl-nutrition-xtra-protein-carbs-5kg-tub

Konkers

Following a thread on here have only started using high 5 4:1 in the chocolate flavour. Mix it with milk. Tastes good and has meant that I feel less tired the following day.

Had an upset stomach after the first time I used it but not anymore.

Reminds me of an Eddie rockets chocolate malt milkshake.

gallybander

I'm a vegetarian and find I have to take a protein drink after a long hard spin, i use Pure Soya Protein, shocking taste but wouldnt be able to eat enough of anything to recover.

Murphj7

Where did you get the protein mix?

Konkers wrote: »

Following a thread on here have only started using high 5 4:1 in the chocolate flavour. Mix it with milk. Tastes good and has meant that I feel less tired the following day.

Had an upset stomach after the first time I used it but not anymore.

Reminds me of an Eddie rockets chocolate malt milkshake.

Brad768

Murphj7 wrote: »

Where did you get the protein mix?

I know wiggle stock it
http://www.wiggle.com/high5-protein-recovery-16kg-tub/v
Don't know how the price compares to else where though

DaveyDave

I drink Mooju low fat chocolate milk. I don't know how much good it does me compared to protein powder but it has 31g of protein in a 750ml carton and Tesco usually does 2 for €2.50 so I'll grab one instead of a Coke or energy drink. It's not specifically a post workout recovery drink though I've heard good things about low fat chocolate milk being a good post workout recovery drink so I tend to drink them after a spin.

In the grand scheme of things it works out cheaper getting a 2.2kg tub of Kinetica protein for about €50 or so, is there anything cheaper worth looking at? The only reason I haven't got a tub myself is the bigger upfront cost.

ghogie91

DaveyDave wrote: »

I drink Mooju low fat chocolate milk. I don't know how much good it does me compared to protein powder but it has 31g of protein in a 750ml carton and Tesco usually does 2 for €2.50 so I'll grab one instead of a Coke or energy drink. It's not specifically a post workout recovery drink though I've heard good things about low fat chocolate milk being a good post workout recovery drink so I tend to drink them after a spin.

In the grand scheme of things it works out cheaper getting a 2.2kg tub of Kinetica protein for about €50 or so, is there anything cheaper worth looking at? The only reason I haven't got a tub myself is the bigger upfront cost.

I'm the same I go for chocolate milk too, plenty of protein, go for some eggs too

petethedrummer

No, because it probably a load of old nonsense.

Brian?

petethedrummer wrote: »

No, because it probably a load of old nonsense.

It's not a load of old nonsense. It's just largely misunderstood.

An active person should be eating 2-2.5 grams of protein per kg of body weight. If you're struggling to meet this with real food for whatever reason then a protein supplement is grand. But that's all it is, a supplement.

It's not magic sauce, you can eat most your protein requirments from whole food sources such as eggs, meat and dairy.

I'd avoid any post workout supplements though. All they are is cheap whey protein laced with expensive sugars. In a comparative study done between a few different brands and chocolate milk, there was feck all difference nutritionally. I prefer postworkout steaks.

NeedMoreGears

I don't bother with special drinks etc - just food. Maybe a can of tuna (about 30g of protein I think) with bread and some apples, salad etc. Then it's back to whatever's on for lunch/dinner etc. If it's a very hard spin, I go for the red wine recovery method.

Lumen

Brian? wrote: »

An active person should be eating .5 - .75 grams of protein per kg of body weight. If you're struggling to meet this with real food for whatever reason then a protein supplement is grand

It's almost impossible to eat less protein than that unless you're eating loads of sugar and fat.

2000 calories of pasta has 73g protein, which by your worst case formula is enough for a 97kg person.

A 97kg person on a 2000 calorie diet will lose weight.

You could smother that pasta in 500 calories of butter and you'd still be losing weight and getting enough protein.

Brian?

Lumen wrote: »

It's almost impossible to eat less protein than that unless you're eating loads of sugar and fat.

2000 calories of pasta has 73g protein, which by your worst case formula is enough for a 97kg person.

A 97kg person on a 2000 calorie diet will lose weight.

You could smother that pasta in 500 calories of butter and you'd still be losing weight and getting enough protein.

You're right. I meant 2-2.5 grams of protein per kg of body weight.

I converted pounds the wrong way, doh.

Lumen

Brian? wrote: »

You're right. I meant 2-2.5 grams of protein per kg of body weight.

I converted pounds the wrong way, doh.

Do you have a source for that which is cycling-specific?

http://www.cptips.com/protein.htm

"As far back as 1983, scientists demonstrated that two hours of exercise can drain the body of essential protein stores. Based on their findings, Dr. Lemon makes the following recommendations for protein intake for strength and endurance athletes:

"Strength - 1.6-1.7 grams of dietary protein per kg of bodyweight
Endurance - 1.2-1.4 grams of dietary protein per kg of bodyweight

The average 70 kg (154 pound) cyclist will need from 80 to 100 grams of protein per day"

That's 1.1-1.25g/kg/day.

ford2600

A friend of mine is more old school and frugal. Brings a mug with an egg in it when at an event. When finished activity, cracks egg into mug.
One way of getting protein in.

hardCopy

Lumen wrote: »

It's almost impossible to eat less protein than that unless you're eating loads of sugar and fat.

2000 calories of pasta has 73g protein, which by your worst case formula is enough for a 97kg person.

A 97kg person on a 2000 calorie diet will lose weight.

You could smother that pasta in 500 calories of butter and you'd still be losing weight and getting enough protein.

It depends on who you ask, I have heard anywhere from 1 gram per kilo of bodyweight to 1 gram per pound of bodyweight.

I'm usually fairly happy once I get over 1gr/kg.

Yazoo and other chocolate milks are great after a spin/run, I find them a lot nicer than mixed shakes. If I haven't got enough protein for the day I'll have a few spoons of cottage cheese in the evening.

ford2600

1 gram per pound of bodyweight.

I wouldn't trust anyone who mixes up different systems..

Lumen

Here's a worked example of a reasonably normal healthy meal:

150g chicken breast - 40 grams protein, 140 calories
200g (dry) pasta - 25g protein, 700 calories
200g tomatoes - 2g protein, 44 calories
1tbsp olive oil - no protein, 120 calories
250ml semi-skimmed milk - 8g protein, 125 calories
---
75g protein, 1129 calories.

That's 66g protein per 1000 calories.

Any sort of cyclist requiring the sort of extra protein suggested by sports science articles is going to be burning at least 3000 calories a day (and probably much more than that).

Scale up that meal and you get 198g protein.

Again, it is simply impossible to eat too little protein in a balanced, healthy diet. That's why it's called a "balanced, healthy diet".

We did not spend millions of years evolving our digestive systems in order to pour synthetic shíte down them.

petethedrummer

Brian? wrote: »

It's not a load of old nonsense. It's just largely misunderstood.

My answer was in reference to those shakes.

Brian?

Lumen wrote: »

Do you have a source for that which is cycling-specific?

http://www.cptips.com/protein.htm

"As far back as 1983, scientists demonstrated that two hours of exercise can drain the body of essential protein stores. Based on their findings, Dr. Lemon makes the following recommendations for protein intake for strength and endurance athletes:

"Strength - 1.6-1.7 grams of dietary protein per kg of bodyweight
Endurance - 1.2-1.4 grams of dietary protein per kg of bodyweight

The average 70 kg (154 pound) cyclist will need from 80 to 100 grams of protein per day"

That's 1.1-1.25g/kg/day.

It's a reccomendations I've read, from many different sources. It's not a rule, but excess protein within the 1.5-2g/kg of body weight has no negative consequences once you're eating within your calorie goal.

I can try to find some studies on it if you really want.

Brian?

Lumen wrote: »

Here's a worked example of a reasonably normal healthy meal:

150g chicken breast - 40 grams protein, 140 calories
200g (dry) pasta - 25g protein, 700 calories
200g tomatoes - 2g protein, 44 calories
1tbsp olive oil - no protein, 120 calories
250ml semi-skimmed milk - 8g protein, 125 calories
---
75g protein, 1129 calories.

That's 66g protein per 1000 calories.

Any sort of cyclist requiring the sort of extra protein suggested by sports science articles is going to be burning at least 3000 calories a day (and probably much more than that).

Scale up that meal and you get 198g protein.

Again, it is simply impossible to eat too little protein in a balanced, healthy diet. That's why it's called a "balanced, healthy diet".

It's not impossible to eat an unbalanced unhealthy diet though.

I did say, get your protein from food first and supplement after.

We did not spend millions of years evolving our digestive systems in order to pour synthetic shíte down them.

I agree, eat whole foods. Plenty of meat and eggs.

Whey protein is not really synthetic though. It's simply one of the 2 types of protein that are found in milk. The other being casein. Whey is a faster absorbed protein and it's left over when making cheese. Marketing genii have made an entire industry out of adding expensive sugar etc. to it and calling them pre/post workout supplements.

If you're going to supplement, do it with plain whey.

Brian?

petethedrummer wrote: »

My answer was in reference to those shakes.

Which shakes? Protein shakes or post workout shakes?

Lumen

Brian? wrote: »

It's a reccomendations I've read, from many different sources. It's not a rule, but excess protein within the 1.5-2g/kg of body weight has no negative consequences once you're eating within your calorie goal.

I can try to find some studies on it if you really want.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20798660

In his study, the high protein group got 3g/kg/day and 6g/kg/day carbs (1:2 ratio).

That meal I posted up has 75g protein and 150g carbs. Also 1:2 ratio.

Which means if you eat a normal healthy balanced diet you are already eating so much protein that you would a candidate for the high protein group in a study of trained time triallers. Are you training that hard? I'm not.

There is NO case for supplements. If you eat an unhealthy diet, the solution is to eat a healthy diet.

Brian?

Lumen wrote: »

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20798660

In his study, the high protein group got 3g/kg/day and 6g/kg/day carbs (1:2 ratio).

That meal I posted up has 75g protein and 150g carbs. Also 1:2 ratio.

Which means if you eat a normal healthy balanced diet you are already eating so much protein that you would a candidate for the high protein group in a study of trained time triallers. Are you training that hard? I'm not.

There is NO case for supplements. If you eat an unhealthy diet, the solution is to eat a healthy diet.

That study compares people getting 1.5g/kg v 3g/kg.

I wouldnt expect to see much of a difference. The group on the higher amount was getting more protein than their bodies could adsorb. The group on the lower amount were getting what I was reccomending.

Again, supplementation is fine if you're getting below 1.5g/kg. whey IS food. There is nothing unhealthy about plain whey.

Lumen

Brian? wrote: »

Again, supplementation is fine if you're getting below 1.5g/kg

No it isn't. By definition, your diet is unhealthy and unbalanced. Recommending supplements doesn't make it healthy or balanced. It is therefore bad advice.

Brian? wrote: »

whey IS food. There is nothing unhealthy about plain whey.

Most whey products contain lactose. Most people are lactose intolerant to some degree.

Brian?

Lumen wrote: »

No it isn't. By definition, your diet is unhealthy and unbalanced. Recommending supplements doesn't make it healthy or balanced. It is therefore bad advice.

No. By adding a few grams of protein, in the form of a supplement you're bringing your diet into balance. It's that simple.

Whey protein is a perfectly fine way of adding protein to a diet.

Most whey products contain lactose. Most people are lactose intolerant to some degree.

So anyone drinking milk doesn't have a healthy diet?

Lumen

Brian? wrote: »

No. By adding a few grams of protein, in the form of a supplement you're bringing your diet into balance. It's that simple.

Whey protein is a perfectly fine way of adding protein to a diet.

But the diet is only out of balance because it contains too much fat and sugar. As I've demonstrated in detail, there is just no way to achieve a protein deficit eating a balanced diet.

If you disagree with this, please post a breakdown of a day's healthy food consumption which contains insufficient protein.

Brian? wrote: »

So anyone drinking milk doesn't have a healthy diet?

I didn't say that, though some people would.

Brian?

ford2600 wrote: »

A friend of mine is more old school and frugal. Brings a mug with an egg in it when at an event. When finished activity, cracks egg into mug.
One way of getting protein in.

A disgusting and misguided way. The bioavailability of protein from a raw egg is lower than that of cooked egg.

Morrisseeee

Lumen wrote: »

The average 70 kg (154 pound) cyclist will need from 80 to 100 grams of protein per day"

Just to put that in context, a hard boiled egg has roughly 6.3g of protein, so divide the mid-point above (90g) by 6.3 gives us : 14 eggs per day

Brian?

Lumen wrote: »

But the diet is only out of balance because it contains too much fat and sugar. As I've demonstrated in detail, there is just no way to achieve a protein deficit eating a balanced diet.

You're right. I've already said that you can't achieve a protein deficit while eating a balanced diet. My point is that whey protein can be part of that balanced diet. It's food.

If you disagree with this, please post a breakdown of a day's healthy food consumption which contains insufficient protein.

First you need to define healthy. My definition is one that includes 1.5-2g/kg of protein.

I didn't say that, though some people would.

So we're agreed. There's nothing wrong with whey.

ford2600

Brian? wrote: »

A disgusting and misguided way. The bioavailability of protein from a raw egg is lower than that of cooked egg.

Ill trust you on the bioavailabiltiy bit.
Sorry if it disgusts you.

Lumen

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Just to put that in context, a hard boiled egg has roughly 6.3g of protein, so divide the mid-point above (90g) by 6.3 gives us : 14 eggs per day

But those 14 eggs have only one thousand calories in them. You'd need to eat something like 40 eggs a day if that was your only source of food.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct3CcR3c4oM

DKO

Wonder how much age influences all of this discussion, if you are a 25 year old training relatively hard and racing are your protein needs less than those of a 40 year old doing the same work. And then there would be the issue of a person who hasn't trained for cycling and then jumps in to a tough training schedule, muscles will have to work harder to reorganise etc. does this person need more than the 'normal' amount of protein??? There are so many variables that its difficult to directly compare studies without care and analysis.

I would imagine that responsibly taking protein supplements produced by a reputable company cannot do significant harm (except to your wallet) and may do some good, particularly on those days when for some reason (work, other committments) that you don't get the ideal 'healthy meals', how much is obviously debatable.

Also is there something about ease of absortion of the proteins in these supplements. I thought that was one of the selling points, that much of the protein we actually eat sails through the digestive tract and these supplements are easier to digest.

Finally, I guess if you are training and find that you are feeling fine and fresh then no supplements are needed, if you want to build muscle, then the muscle building protein stuff would be for you so you can get Arni stlye, and if you feel a bit wrecked after training sessions, but want to maintain the intensity, then try the supplements and see if they make recovery better, if they do, great! Keep investing and imbibing!

Brian?

DKO wrote: »

Wonder how much age influences all of this discussion, if you are a 25 year old training relatively hard and racing are your protein needs less than those of a 40 year old doing the same work. And then there would be the issue of a person who hasn't trained for cycling and then jumps in to a tough training schedule, muscles will have to work harder to reorganise etc. does this person need more than the 'normal' amount of protein??? There are so many variables that its difficult to directly compare studies without care and analysis.

I would imagine that responsibly taking protein supplements produced by a reputable company cannot do significant harm (except to your wallet) and may do some good, particularly on those days when for some reason (work, other committments) that you don't get the ideal 'healthy meals', how much is obviously debatable.

Also is there something about ease of absortion of the proteins in these supplements. I thought that was one of the selling points, that much of the protein we actually eat sails through the digestive tract and these supplements are easier to digest.

Finally, I guess if you are training and find that you are feeling fine and fresh then no supplements are needed, if you want to build muscle, then the muscle building protein stuff would be for you so you can get Arni stlye, and if you feel a bit wrecked after training sessions, but want to maintain the intensity, then try the supplements and see if they make recovery better, if they do, great! Keep investing and imbibing!

Whey has a very high bioavailibilty:




That's one of the reasons it's so popular as a supplement. It should be cheap as well, but all of that marketing and packaging costs money.

Peterx

petethedrummer wrote: »

No, because it probably a load of old nonsense.

More like a load of new nonscience:)

Although bioavailibilty is definitely my new word for today so thanks for that.

NeedMoreGears

Lumen wrote: »

..... You'd need to eat something like 40 eggs a day if that was your only source of food....QUOTE]

Not necessarily a way to endear yourself to the peleton, especially fi you throw in a few onions.

Murphj7

This has gone totally of track. Just asking which protein supplement you guys use?

ulinbac

Murphj7 wrote: »

This has gone totally of track. Just asking which protein supplement you guys use?

IMO the best 3 best brands on the market are Reflex, PhD and Allmax. there are different versions of each but a good website for reviews etc. is supplement review.com

At the moment I am using Isoflex by Allmax and finding it really good for the last 2/3 months. That said it's expensive, at £33 a tub with ~ 40 servings.

Marketing does add to the cost but then again you get what you pay for. I work long hours so don't have time to do a massive meal prep so this helps.

Just to let you know, I am coming from a rugby background in to cycling and from talking to lots of different people, try your best to eat healthy (fruit, veg, meat) as often as possible. Your diet will be/is a massive factor so don't think that if you take protein, its job done. Protein is wasted unless you train hard and eat right!

I take 2 servings a day, one mid-morning and one after training and mix 100% creatine monohydrate in with the evening one.

Brian?

Murphj7 wrote: »

This has gone totally of track. Just asking which protein supplement you guys use?

I thought I'd given you a lot better info than simply naming a brand.

I have myprotein whey around here somewhere. I bought it because it's cheap, has a high %of protein per scoop and tastes fine. The ultimate 3 metrics to judge any whey supplement by.

http://ie.myprotein.com/sports-nutrition/impact-whey-isolate/10530911.html

The chocolate is tasty.

C3PO

I sometimes think I only come on Boards to read Lumen's posts!!

t'bear

I know for a fact I visit Boards to do that, I am drawn to all manner of responses from Raam, Doozerie, Buffalo, Lumen, actually you know what - you are all great :-)