Should Bowling Green Car Park be converted into a Open air Market?

what_traffic

From:
http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/RoadsandTraffic/ParkingintheCity/PublicCarParks/

Bowling Green / Newtownsmith has 40 Short Stay Car Park spaces.

Similar to the Milk Market in Limerick perhaps?

http://www.milkmarketlimerick.ie/
and here are some images:
https://www.google.ie/search?q=milk+market+limerick&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WfqQUbrOAe6O7AbAh4CAAg&sqi=2&ved=0CEsQsAQ&biw=1536&bih=874

Thoughts? Merits and Demerits?

Mrs OBumble

Nooo ... it would mean losing car-parks! Ref: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056938972

And likely to become quite dodgy at night if there aren't lots of people using the car-parks there.

what_traffic

Interesting point re Passive Security. How about updating the street lights in that area?

Lapin

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And likely to become quite dodgy at night if there aren't lots of people using the car-parks there.

I'm struggling to make any sense out of that sentence.

biko

I think Mrs OB means that deserted car parks attract gangs of kids that get up to no good.
I use that car park quite often so no, I don't think it should be used as something else. This is the entrance

I've been to a few canopy markets, they're nice but I'm not convinced Galway need another market.

jkforde

yeah, not a bad idea.. if it doesn't work nothing permanently injured, it could just go back to being a nice car park

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And likely to become quite dodgy at night if there aren't lots of people using the car-parks there.

on that basis nothing would be tried in the interest of the vast majority in case a tiny minority of teenagers become rowdy. I suppose it's one model on how we should develop our society.

snubbleste

No.

snubbleste

People have tried to set up markets elsewhere but have been refused ie. a seven day market on Headford Rd http://gis.galwaycity.ie/PlanEnqLite/Default.aspx?FullFileNumber=26a-10129&FromMap=True

dinneenp

Isn't the obvious place for a market, be it artists, food or whatever the large space down by the docks where Funderland is now?

I think a great addition to Galway would be a space for artists, photographers, painters etc. displaying and selling their stuff. Throw in a few food stalls and a few other bits

biko

Indeed, the docks space would be great for that.

antoobrien

dinneenp wrote: »

Isn't the obvious place for a market, be it artists, food or whatever the large space down by the docks where Funderland is now?

I think a great addition to Galway would be a space for artists, photographers, painters etc. displaying and selling their stuff. Throw in a few food stalls and a few other bits

What about a small one on front of the Spanish arch, might stop it being used by drunken teenageers tourists.

No way, its a very handy car park when you need to park near shop street etc or if you are leaving the car overnight on a saturday night when going out. Car parking is already hard enough to find its more spaces we need not less.

galwaycyclist

dinneenp wrote: »

Isn't the obvious place for a market, be it artists, food or whatever the large space down by the docks where Funderland is now?

I think a great addition to Galway would be a space for artists, photographers, painters etc. displaying and selling their stuff. Throw in a few food stalls and a few other bits

Disagree I'm afraid. All the classic city centre markets that I can think of (Munich etc) are associated in some way with a pedestrian area or vehicle restricted zone.

The docks is separated from the rest of the city by two hostile - two lane - one way streets.

The whole idea of a market is that it is a place people can stroll around. I don't think the docks ticks those boxes.

antoobrien

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Disagree I'm afraid. All the classic city centre markets that I can think of (Munich etc) are associated in some way with a pedestrian area or vehicle restricted zone.

Shop street is reasonably wide - would a Moore St/Henry St style market look out of place?

galwaycyclist

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Disagree I'm afraid. All the classic city centre markets that I can think of (Munich etc) are associated in some way with a pedestrian area or vehicle restricted zone.

The docks is separated from the rest of the city by two hostile - two lane - one way streets.

The whole idea of a market is that it is a place people can stroll around. I don't think the docks ticks those boxes.

The docks is nearly as close to shop street as that car park and come on crossing a road is not going to stop anyone going down there, why on earth would it.

inisboffin

antoobrien wrote: »

Shop street is reasonably wide - would a Moore St/Henry St style market look out of place?

It would have to be stuff on the stalls that is not sold in the shops. Otherwise there's be many objections. And Shop St is a good bit narrower imo. Half the character of Moore St was the semi-illegality of it for years, along with the odd bit of contraband at certain times of the year. Can't see it working here on Shop St tbh, just like it wouldn't have worked to the same extent on Grafton St (both more strolly/touristy streets than frantic powershop streets).

topcat77

would prefer if it'd be made into a secure bike parking area. something like this would be nice. enough parking in the city but no secure bike parking facility.

bike park01.jpg

bike park.jpg

Mrs OBumble

jkforde wrote: »

on that basis nothing would be tried in the interest of the vast majority in case a tiny minority of teenagers become rowdy. I suppose it's one model on how we should develop our society.

Nope, that's not what I said.

People who live in Bowling Green already tell me that they never use the road beside Sally Longs if they're walking home alone at night.

There are many places around town where another market could be put, which wouldn't have the ASB issues which that particular tucked-away piece of space would have. Spanish Arch. The Docks. The area outside Supermacs on Eyre Square (there have been illegal traders there for yeears, recently the council started granting licences, but it's not full). Woodquay (which I think is the best option, actually)

We need to get smarter about building things in ways that actively discourage ASB, simply because it's such a problem here in Ireland.


And that's without even mentioning the vehicle access issues that traders woudl have with getting their stalls and goods along the narrow streets and into the Newtonsmith site. (You have seen the rigs that many of the folks at St Nicholas use, haven't you.)

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And that's without even mentioning the vehicle access issues that traders woudl have with getting their stalls and goods along the narrow streets and into the Newtonsmith site. (You have seen the rigs that many of the folks at St Nicholas use, haven't you.)

It's the Bowling Green Car park - not the Newtonsmith site that is being suggested. There is far more room in Bowling Green area for vechicle's to manouver than at St Nicholas Church.

Re Dock's Site - is this land in public or private ownership? Reason for suggesting Bowling Green Car park is that the City Council own it.

?Cee?view

what_traffic wrote: »

It's the Bowling Green Car park - not the Newtonsmith site that is being suggested. There is far more room in Bowling Green area for vechicle's to manouver than at St Nicholas Church.

Re Dock's Site - is this land in public or private ownership? Reason for suggesting Bowling Green Car park is that the City Council own it.

Is the Bowling Green one not the same as the Newtownsmith one? It borders both. It is council owned.

The only other one nearby is the one next to the Connacht Tribune (granted it backs onto Bowling Green, but with no vehicular or pedestrian access), but isn't that privately owned? At least it was until recently.

what_traffic

churchview wrote: »

Is the Bowling Green one not the same as the Newtownsmith one? It borders both. It is council owned.

The only other one nearby is the one next to the Connacht Tribune (granted it backs onto Bowling Green, but with no vehicular or pedestrian access), but isn't that privately owned? At least it was until recently.

Your right.
Doh - I am wrong here I thought the Bowling Green car park was that opposite St Nicholas Church and the Newtownsmith car park was that opposite the Mercy Girls Secondary School. Realise now that the car park opposite St Nicholas Church on Market St is privately owned.

@Mrs OBumble I agree regarding Woodquay - would be a good location for a market - as you pointed vechicular access would be more suitable here.

antoobrien

inisboffin wrote: »

It would have to be stuff on the stalls that is not sold in the shops. Otherwise there's be many objections. And Shop St is a good bit narrower imo. Half the character of Moore St was the semi-illegality of it for years, along with the odd bit of contraband at certain times of the year. Can't see it working here on Shop St tbh, just like it wouldn't have worked to the same extent on Grafton St (both more strolly/touristy streets than frantic powershop streets).

It's not that much narrower, but I agree I don't think it would work. I don't see the attraction of these types of markets anyways, I remember being dragged down market st on a saturday morning until I was old enough to go hurling training, 'nuff said.

thesandeman

Bit off topic but apparently the Woodquay market is coming back for the Saturday of the Sea Festival.

Night Falls

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Disagree I'm afraid. All the classic city centre markets that I can think of (Munich etc) are associated in some way with a pedestrian area or vehicle restricted zone.

The docks is separated from the rest of the city by two hostile - two lane - one way streets.

The whole idea of a market is that it is a place people can stroll around. I don't think the docks ticks those boxes.

Also, I'm pretty sure that land is privately owned (although it may have been NAMAfied, I'm not sure).

Greaney

I don't know if ye've noticed but Eyre Square (outside Supermacs), has a market, folk who had bought permits stopped using it so the traders with tacking (and tat!:o) started making their stalls bigger. Original pitches were tiny, you can see them painted on the ground still I think. It was mostly hippy jewelery sellers in the late 80's but they drifted off and I don't know what happened to their permits (issued by the local authority).

ben.schlomo

Greaney wrote: »

I don't know if ye've noticed but Eyre Square (outside Supermacs), has a market, folk who had bought permits stopped using it so the traders with tacking (and tat!:o) started making their stalls bigger. Original pitches were tiny, you can see them painted on the ground still I think. It was mostly hippy jewelery sellers in the late 80's but they drifted off and I don't know what happened to their permits (issued by the local authority).

No it has stalls, anything but a market.

Mrs OBumble

ben.schlomo wrote: »

No it has stalls, anything but a market.

Ahh, what is a market if not an area with stalls in it?

ben.schlomo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ahh, what is a market if not an area with stalls in it?

I must have higher expectations of a market than two stalls selling knock-off tat, more power to you if its your cuppa tae.

antoobrien

ben.schlomo wrote: »

I must have higher expectations of a market than two stalls selling knock-off tat, more power to you if its your cuppa tae.

There are many definitions of the word market available, so I'll pick what looks like the most appropriate:

an open place or a building where buyers and sellers convene for the sale of goods

ben.schlomo

antoobrien wrote: »

There are many definitions of the word market available, so I'll pick what looks like the most appropriate:

an open place or a building where buyers and sellers convene for the sale of goods

And i'll use this as my example of what a market is and should be.

http://www.milkmarketlimerick.ie/

Mrs OBumble

So kinda like this, then:


http://www.galwaymarket.com/

antoobrien

ben.schlomo wrote: »

And i'll use this as my example of what a market is and should be.

http://www.milkmarketlimerick.ie/

Ah so we're back to "should be" rather than what is and has been accepted since well before any of us were born.

Carry on.

Greaney

I've got to say, this is whay I didn't reply to your post at first Ben, you don't know the history of what happened in Eyre Square. It had folk who made jewelery and everything but the pitches were too small. The traders did not stick with it (just the fella who sold riding tack etc.) after they went to the trouble of getting local authority trade permission, licences and all.

I have heaps of mates who do markets around the county and alas folk seem to focus on the chi chi produce in the market in Galway city and dont' support local small towns, letting market licences slide and by laws run out when it's too late. I support my local market (in a small town in East Galway), we get extentions for it at special times of the year, I organise events to give it a boost. It's all good and well deciding what the perfect market is in ones head, but the reality takes a lot of work and commitment from traders and the community alike.

ben.schlomo

antoobrien wrote: »

Ah so we're back to "should be" rather than what is and has been accepted since well before any of us were born.

Carry on.

Yep 'should be' is far more use to most people, but its grand sure continue buying air rifles and whatever other tat is sold in that awesome 'market'.;)

ben.schlomo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So kinda like this, then:


http://www.galwaymarket.com/

If only it came with a roof.

kabakuyu

Greaney wrote: »

I don't know if ye've noticed but Eyre Square (outside Supermacs), has a market, folk who had bought permits stopped using it so the traders with tacking (and tat!:o) started making their stalls bigger. Original pitches were tiny, you can see them painted on the ground still I think. It was mostly hippy jewelery sellers in the late 80's but they drifted off and I don't know what happened to their permits (issued by the local authority).

Nearly correct,but some backround info ,the one with tacking and tat and others like him were there since the late 60's(others were earlier) and originally had large pitch's but in the 80's the hippies(your words) started trading. The then city manager/town Clerk Joe Gavin decided to control casual trading and bring in small standard sized pitch's but the 3 families who had traded there the longest contested this in the courts and Judge Grattan Esmonde agreed that they had a right to trade there and receive larger pictch's, this was agreed by Joe Gavin but later on others sought to bring the matter to the courts.

There were also stalls in eyre square in the 50's and 60's.

thesandeman

Woodquay Market confirmed for the Sea Festival Saturday. Hope the people from Easter come back. It was great to see new (and cheaper) traders there compared to the usual market.

Greaney

Thanks Kabakuyu for that detail, yes I was aware the tacking guy was there for generations, but you've cleared up some detail regarding it's standing legally. I have no problem using the term hippy (short hand for artisan, alternative etc.) since I'm a bit boho meself;)

kabakuyu

Greaney wrote: »

Thanks Kabakuyu for that detail, yes I was aware the tacking guy was there for generations, but you've cleared up some detail regarding it's standing legally. I have no problem using the term hippy (short hand for artisan, alternative etc.) since I'm a bit boho meself;)

No problem, they were all decent people who just wanted to work for a living, I always thought that the size of pitch's restricted trading and there was also a whole list of items prohibited from being sold( some to protect local businesses)along with other restrictive rules.

thesandeman

Dunno if he is newish but there was a guy selling paintings outside the Advertiser office a couple of days ago. He didn't seem to be part of Devaney empire.

The 'Indian Sunday Market Guy' should really go for it. Probably wouldn't work at lunchtime as everything cooked to order but I could see him doing well with 9-5ers if he could stay till 7ish.