Maternity entitlement part time casual?

Rodar08

Hi all,

I'm wondering if anyone can clear things up for me. I'm a part time casual (on call substitute with no contract) post primary sub. I've been teaching in the same VEC school since January 2010. Before that I was in a different deis secondary school from November 2006 working in the same capacity.. A part time sub on call. I was wondering if I am entitled to anything at all regarding maternity benefits?

I'm due in September and am really anxious about money as I'm not entitled to any unemployment benefit. We got married at the beginning of Decmeber and the means test meant my dole was cut off. Surely the hours I've built up teaching for the last 7 years must count for something? I don't think it does but just thought id ask incase I'm missing something.

If I'm not entitled to anything then this needs to change big time. Life as a sub is hard! Subbing is not as plentiful as it used to be either. I've never had a contract in this time apart from a few months covering maternity leave a couple of years ago. Thanks so much in advance

highly1111

It'll all depend on your PRSI contributions but you'll definitely be entitled to benefit.

I think the min MB is about €220 and the max is €262. the amount you qualify for depends on PRSI contributions. Also, as far as I know it'll be based on your 2011 year. Check citizensinformation.ie for more.

rainbowtrout

Rodar08 wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm wondering if anyone can clear things up for me. I'm a part time casual (on call substitute with no contract) post primary sub. I've been teaching in the same VEC school since January 2010. Before that I was in a different deis secondary school from November 2006 working in the same capacity.. A part time sub on call. I was wondering if I am entitled to anything at all regarding maternity benefits?

I'm due in September and am really anxious about money as I'm not entitled to any unemployment benefit. We got married at the beginning of Decmeber and the means test meant my dole was cut off. Surely the hours I've built up teaching for the last 7 years must count for something? I don't think it does but just thought id ask incase I'm missing something.

If I'm not entitled to anything then this needs to change big time. Life as a sub is hard! Subbing is not as plentiful as it used to be either. I've never had a contract in this time apart from a few months covering maternity leave a couple of years ago. Thanks so much in advance

You don't have a contract with the VEC so you are not entitled to anything from them. As the post above says you might be entitled to something from social welfare if you have made enough PRSI contributions. Contact the social welfare and ask.

Rodar08

Oh my god guys thank you so much for your help. I contacted the social welfare office and I am entitled to maternity benefit for 26 weeks. I can't believe it, I'm over the moon. I didn't think I was entitled to a penny.

For anybody else in the same situation there are two criteria that you have to meet. You have to have enough contributions on during 2011 (they work from two years agos figures) which they will be able to tell you over the phone at your local welfare office. The other part you have to meet is that you have to have worked within 16 weeks of your due date. So for me I have to work a day or two after the 3rd of June.. I'm supervising the exams so that will be me covered. Yay delighted and such a huge weight off our shoulders.

Thanks again

rainbowtrout

Rodar08 wrote: »

Oh my god guys thank you so much for your help. I contacted the social welfare office and I am entitled to maternity benefit for 26 weeks. I can't believe it, I'm over the moon. I didn't think I was entitled to a penny.

For anybody else in the same situation there are two criteria that you have to meet. You have to have enough contributions on during 2011 (they work from two years agos figures) which they will be able to tell you over the phone at your local welfare office. The other part you have to meet is that you have to have worked within 16 weeks of your due date. So for me I have to work a day or two after the 3rd of June.. I'm supervising the exams so that will be me covered. Yay delighted and such a huge weight off our shoulders.

Thanks again

That's excellent news for you Rodar, it should make a difference along with your child benefit.

happywithlife

Get back onto them ASAP and confirm everything in writing if you can. At the very least record who told you what and when

I was in a similar position last time round and social welfare messed up re the info they gave me

Yes the credits go on 2 years previous and yes you must be working within the time frame mentioned - but

My last job before i went on mat leave was also with the sec and because I was paying a different Prsi band (to the best of my recollection) when it came to it I was in eligible for mat benefit - only that I had all details written down re who said wht and when was I able to plead my case and get my mat benefit reinstated.
So jut double and triple check everything and record everything! Hth

Rodar08

Thanks Rainbowtrout yeah Happy with life I am nervous about it and won't be happy until the whole thing gets confirmed. I really hope this all works out without too much hassle. Thanks for the heads up

genieinabottle

Rodar08, dont forget the 26 week rule. If you stay out of work more than 26 weeks your pension will be classed as a new entrant. Im also a sub teacher due in Sept, its all so head wrecking. Im going to have to try get a sub class the first week the schools go back and if i cant ill have to try get some subbing when my baby will be about 6 weeks old. If i go back when baby is 6 weeks old ill loss my mat leave benefit from social then. Its a terrible situation to be in after 5 years teaching!

thefasteriwalk

genieinabottle wrote: »

Rodar08, dont forget the 26 week rule. If you stay out of work more than 26 weeks your pension will be classed as a new entrant. Im also a sub teacher due in Sept, its all so head wrecking. Im going to have to try get a sub class the first week the schools go back and if i cant ill have to try get some subbing when my baby will be about 6 weeks old. If i go back when baby is 6 weeks old ill loss my mat leave benefit from social then. Its a terrible situation to be in after 5 years teaching!

Oh my God. That's awful.

Rodar08

What? Oh my god. I swear to god I am just about to lift the lid on substitute teaching rights and benefits. It's a disgrace that you after 5 years teaching and me after 7 years teaching are in this situation and that we're not entitled to straight forward maternity benefits like a teacher should be. Like not one day of my teaching goes towards anything. Also .....no, I'm on a rant now and I could go on and on and on so I won't. Ill have to re read what you said to get my head round that. ....

Rodar08

Ok genieinabottle so do I have this right? I'm due on the 15th of September and thinking of starting my maternity leave from the first week in August. This will bring me up to the 10th of February for the entire 26 weeks. So if I get a days subbing the week or two before the 10th of February will that ensure my pension isn't classed as a new entrant?

It is a head wreck! I know that if that is the case my school would help me out and give me a day or two if I needed it. I think so in this case I would only loose the last week or two of my mat benefit from the social yeah?

Also I want to start my mat benefit from August because I want to go back to work by beginning of February to keep my foot in the door there. I also have to ensure I get a day or two work from the 3rd of June to make me entitled to mat benefit so I'm doing the exams and that should cover that.

genieinabottle

Rodar, the three months of the summer are counted in the 26 weeks. Sorry to break the bad news to you. I m very upset about it all too. Rang payroll and was pasted on from person to person until finally someone answered my questions. If you finish work on the 3rd of June, your 26 weeks are counted from then.

Rodar08

Lol genieinabottle I'm so sorry for being so slow here.. I don't think I'm getting it. I was already counting the three months holidays in the 26 weeks.. Omg I'm totally confused now lol. The guy in the social welfare office told me I can start my maternity leave anytime from July onwards as long as i have an A stamp on any time within Sixteen weeks of my due date. So for me that means as long as I work a day or two after the 3rd of June then ill be eligible to start receiving mat benefit from a date of my choosing up until the 9th of September as he also told me you have to start receiving it within a week or two of your due date.

So if I start receiving the benefit from the 1st of August until the 7th of February this is 26 weeks in total, including the 3 months holidays. Then I can become available for work again from Monday the 10th of February. But given what you've told me I should instead make myself available (or even ask the school to give me a day or two) from around the 3rd of February just to be sure my pension isn't effected.

I'm sorry for being a pain here lol... Oh hold on, I think I'm finally seeing what you're saying ... I think we've both been given two different sets of information hun, we'll need to check out which person we spoke to was definitely correct.l

highly1111

genieinabottle wrote: »

Rodar08, dont forget the 26 week rule. If you stay out of work more than 26 weeks your pension will be classed as a new entrant. Im also a sub teacher due in Sept, its all so head wrecking. Im going to have to try get a sub class the first week the schools go back and if i cant ill have to try get some subbing when my baby will be about 6 weeks old. If i go back when baby is 6 weeks old ill loss my mat leave benefit from social then. Its a terrible situation to be in after 5 years teaching!

I find this very difficult to believe - that means that anyone who goes on maternity leave would come back and be classed as a new entrant for pension purposes - and you cannot be discriminated against at all because you take maternity leave.

Think about it - you could be on a fixed term contract for 3/4 years covering career break for example and if you took maternity leave during that time you would come back in as a new entrant for pension purposes?? I can't believe at all that that is the case.

in fact, I just googled - read page 6 of this:

http://www.education.ie/en/Education-Staff/Services/Retirement-Pensions/faq_pensions_primary.pdf

Maternity leave is protected leave. The pension rule does not apply.

Rodar08

Thank you highly111 that does actually make sense.

Rodar08

In theory it makes sense but this link is for national school. I wonder does it also apply for post primary teachers..

genieinabottle

Because you aren't on contract and you spend more than 26 weeks off the department of education payroll when you come back you are classed as a new entrant and hence your pension is effect. I had to speak to a few people in payroll before I got this answer.

Because you aren't on a contract they don't care if your on mat leave or in oz.

Of course this has nothing to do with your state mat leave benefit, you will still get that for 26 weeks. I'm only talking about your public pension.

genieinabottle

highly1111 wrote: »

I find this very difficult to believe - that means that anyone who goes on maternity leave would come back and be classed as a new entrant for pension purposes - and you cannot be discriminated against at all because you take maternity leave.

Think about it - you could be on a fixed term contract for 3/4 years covering career break for example and if you took maternity leave during that time you would come back in as a new entrant for pension purposes?? I can't believe at all that that is the case.

in fact, I just googled - read page 6 of this:

http://www.education.ie/en/Education-Staff/Services/Retirement-Pensions/faq_pensions_primary.pdf

Maternity leave is protected leave. The pension rule does not apply.

Maternity leave when you have a permanent job or on contract is protected. Not if you don't have a contract.

Rodar08

So back to the same old story then.. Subs get shafted every way as usual. Fed up with this crap I really am we are people too you know!! Lol seriously tho.... Ugh!

happywithlife

Omg I never knew about this 26week rule s****e -
Mat leave for subs is a joke. As it is, I returned to work after my last child was born when he was 11 weeks. He was too young for my crèche to take him so had to arrange alternative childcare for the interim. I was also breast feeding at the time so it was a complete nightmare and so stressful all that lovely covey stuff about having a room made available for expressing may as well be written on toilet paper for all the effect it has :-(
What do they want? For us to go from the delivery room to the classroom in order to try and protect what little pay and conditions we do have? :mad:

Rodar08

This can't be real!! It actually is discriminatory 100%. If I take my maternity leave that I'm entitled to then I lose my pension benefit. Whatever way you look at it it's discrimination. Ill send a link to this thread to the minister and hopefully he'll come on here and give us his two cents lol

I'm totally confused and at my wits end with worry. Excuse me for trying to get an education and make a living.

genieinabottle

Rodar08 wrote: »

This can't be real!! It actually is discriminatory 100%. If I take my maternity leave that I'm entitled to then I lost my pension benefit. Whatever way you look at it it's discrimination. Ill send a link to this thread to the minister and hopefully he'll come on here and give us his two cents lol

I'm totally confused and at my wits end with worry. Excuse me for trying to get and education and make a living.

Check this link out http://forum.educationposts.ie/viewtopic.php?id=72249

You have to be a member to login, bubbles post on page two.

I wish the whole thing wasn't true, I really do.

Rodar08

I contacted MR. Quinn and got this reply so we shall see what comes of it, hopefully it will clear up the matter.


The Minister for Education and Skills Mr. Ruairi Quinn T.D has asked me to acknowledge your recent email in relation to pension and maternity benefits for post primary substitute teachers.

Enquiries are being made about this matter and a further letter will issue as soon as possible.

Yours sincerely

annadro

Could you ask him also to clarify the position re: substitute teachers covering maternity leave contracts - because holiday pay is included in the substitute teachers pay they are not paid for the holidays (because have already got paid their holiday pay in advance which is ok). The problem arises in relation to PRSI credits for the holidays.

The department of education do not give these teachers prsi credits for the holiday period and they cannot sign for PRSI credits alone at the department of social welfare. Both departments say that the other should provide the prsi credits. This is very unfair to such teachers should they require these credits in the future.

Surely if they are prevented from signing on for job seekers benefits or for signing on for just PRSI credits alone (due to their holiday pay covering the holiday period) then the department of education should give them corresponding PAID PRSI credits for the holiday period (that they have received holiday pay for).

Basically such teachers receive holiday pay in advance and thus cannot sign on for job seekers benefit during the holiday period (no problem there) - except that they receive ABSOLUTELY NO PRSI CREDITS FOR THIS HOLIDAY PERIOD. They cannot sign on for PRSI credits alone from the department of social welfare and the department of education DO NOT GIVE THEM ANY PAID PRSI CREDITS for these weeks.

Surely if the department of education are paying them holiday pay (which automatically excludes them from claiming job seekers benefit or from signing for PRSI credits alone from the department of social welfare) then the department of education should give them PAID PRSI creditS. for the weeks their holiday pay represents

Another discrimination against substitute or fixed term teachers. They might need these PAID PRSI credits in years to come.

Zizigirl

annadro wrote: »

Could you ask him also to clarify the position re: substitute teachers covering maternity leave contracts - because holiday pay is included in the substitute teachers pay they are not paid for the holidays (because have already got paid their holiday pay in advance which is ok). The problem arises in relation to PRSI credits for the holidays.

The department of education do not give these teachers prsi credits for the holiday period and they cannot sign for PRSI credits alone at the department of social welfare. Both departments say that the other should provide the prsi credits. This is very unfair to such teachers should they require these credits in the future.

Surely if they are prevented from signing on for job seekers benefits or for signing on for just PRSI credits alone (due to their holiday pay covering the holiday period) then the department of education should give them corresponding PAID PRSI credits for the holiday period (that they have received holiday pay for).

Basically such teachers receive holiday pay in advance and thus cannot sign on for job seekers benefit during the holiday period (no problem there) - except that they receive ABSOLUTELY NO PRSI CREDITS FOR THIS HOLIDAY PERIOD. They cannot sign on for PRSI credits alone from the department of social welfare and the department of education DO NOT GIVE THEM ANY PAID PRSI CREDITS for these weeks.

Surely if the department of education are paying them holiday pay (which automatically excludes them from claiming job seekers benefit or from signing for PRSI credits alone from the department of social welfare) then the department of education should give them PAID PRSI creditS. for the weeks their holiday pay represents

Another discrimination against substitute or fixed term teachers. They might need these PAID PRSI credits in years to come.

Is this new? I was allowed to sign on for benefit as a part timer from 2005 until 2010 inclusive. Granted there was a period in the beginning of the summer (around 10-12 working days or so) where I didn't receive any benefit as my holiday pay covered that, I also never received any benefit for mid terms or Christmas/Easter holidays as holiday pay covered them. When I say covered them, I mean I had to get a form filled out with hours worked and a percentage of that (22%) was means tested! The amount of holiday pay received was always enough to cut me off receiving any social for a couple of weeks initially on any claim!

annadro

Zizigirl wrote: »

Is this new? I was allowed to sign on for benefit as a part timer from 2005 until 2010 inclusive. Granted there was a period in the beginning of the summer (around 10-12 working days or so) where I didn't receive any benefit as my holiday pay covered that, I also never received any benefit for mid terms or Christmas/Easter holidays as holiday pay covered them. When I say covered them, I mean I had to get a form filled out with hours worked and a percentage of that (22%) was means tested! The amount of holiday pay received was always enough to cut me off receiving any social for a couple of weeks initially on any claim!

I think the situation is similar for those getting 22% holiday pay i.e. casual substitutes not on fixed term contracts but am unsure. Yes, once the weeks you have been paid holiday pay are up you would correctly be entitled to job seekers. I am talking about the weeks your advance holiday pay covered where you were not entitled to job seekers (no problem there except that you would not have got any PRSI credit from the department of education - in your case your holiday pay covered mid term, x mas, easter holidays and the first 10 to 12 days of your summer holidays - ok no problem you were not entitled to job seekers BUT you would have got no PRSI credits for these weeks from the department of education (where by right you should be entitled to PAID PRSI contributions for these weeks - as their holiday pay prevented you from signing for either job seekers benefit or for PRSI credits alone).

You may need these PAID PRSI credits in the future.

It seems an anomaly in the system if the department of education is paying you for x no of weeks holiday pay (thus you are ineligible to sign for social welfare benefits or social welfare PRSI credits) then surely they should be giving you PAID PRSI contributions for these weeks.

Zizigirl

annadro wrote: »

I think the situation is similar for those getting 22% holiday pay i.e. casual substitutes not on fixed term contracts but am unsure. Yes, once the weeks you have been paid holiday pay are up you would correctly be entitled to job seekers. I am talking about the weeks your advance holiday pay covered where you were not entitled to job seekers (no problem there except that you would not have got any PRSI credit from the department of education - in your case your holiday pay covered mid term, x mas, easter holidays and the first 10 to 12 days of your summer holidays - ok no problem you were not entitled to job seekers BUT you would have got no PRSI credits for these weeks from the department of education (where by right you should be entitled to PAID PRSI contributions for these weeks - as their holiday pay prevented you from signing for either job seekers benefit or for PRSI credits alone).

You may need these PAID PRSI credits in the future.

It seems an anomaly in the system if the department of education is paying you for x no of weeks holiday pay (thus you are ineligible to sign for social welfare benefits or social welfare PRSI credits) then surely they should be giving you PAID PRSI contributions for these weeks.

I always signed on, reason being to keep my stamps in order, but sometimes I didn't receive any monies. I was constantly in conflict with colleagues regarding 'the waste of a morning' to queue and sign on if I weren't going to get any money. People couldn't seem to understand the importance of signing on anyway, I was lucky I had a friend working in revenue and a family member in Social Welfare so it was all explained to me.

annadro

Zizigirl wrote: »

I always signed on, reason being to keep my stamps in order, but sometimes I didn't receive any monies. I was constantly in conflict with colleagues regarding 'the waste of a morning' to queue and sign on if I weren't going to get any money. People couldn't seem to understand the importance of signing on anyway, I was lucky I had a friend working in revenue and a family member in Social Welfare so it was all explained to me.

Yes, important to sign on - but check and you will see that you did not get any PAID PRSI contributions from the department of education for the weeks your holiday pay prevented you from signing on. (nor would you have received any PRSI contributions from dept of social welfare for these weeks if you chedk) yes you would have received PRSI contributions from dept of social welfare for the weeks you were entitled to job seekers but not for the weeks you had to wait until you got it (due to being ineligible to sign on because of your holiday pay entitlements)

Even if you signed on early - and were not paid anything due to holiday pay preventing you getting any socialwelfare - you didn't keep your stamps in order, you may have signed but check and see you will not have got a PRSI credit from the dept of social welfare nor will the department of education have given you PAID one for these weeks (even though by right they should have as their pay prevented you being eligible for jobseekers for these weeks)

If you enquire, both departments will say that the other should give you the PRIS contribution but neither will give it.
You may need these PAID PRSI contributions from the department of education in the future.

This is something which has to be addressed

Zizigirl

annadro wrote: »

Yes, important to sign on - but check and you will see that you did not get any PAID PRSI contributions from the department of education for the weeks your holiday pay prevented you from signing on. (nor would you have received any PRSI contributions from dept of social welfare for these weeks if you chedk) yes you would have received PRSI contributions from dept of social welfare for the weeks you were entitled to job seekers but not for the weeks you had to wait until you got it (due to being ineligible to sign on because of your holiday pay entitlements)

Even if you signed on early - and were not paid anything due to holiday pay preventing you getting any socialwelfare - you didn't keep your stamps in order, you may have signed but check and see you will not have got a PRSI credit from the dept of social welfare nor will the department of education have given you PAID one for these weeks (even though by right they should have as their pay prevented you being eligible for jobseekers for these weeks)

If you enquire, both departments will say that the other should give you the PRIS contribution but neither will give it.
You may need these PAID PRSI contributions from the department of education in the future.

This is something which has to be addressed

But that's what I signed for, a stamp. I have all my stamps for those years!

annadro

I ment to say you would have got paid and PRSI for the Monday bank holiday of mid term break as the Monday of the bank holiday would have entitled you to be paid for the bank holiday day (provided you had worked x number of weeks beforehand to be entitled to be paid for the bank holiday - fixed term maternity leave teachers would be entitled to the bank holiday pay and a corresponding PRSI stamp) not sure about other substitute teachers.

Also fixed term maternity leave teachers would have got paid and hence got a PRSI stamp for x mas day and for new years day (paid and correspondign prsi credit for both these days.

the week in Feb entitles fixed term teachers nothing - get paid nothing and don't get a stamp from social welfare if sign on - i signed on signed my name (but was told prob wouldn't be entitled to a stamp or jobseekers for the week due to holiday pay and they were right - got nothing no stamp either)

easter if you were still working as fixed term teacher would entitle you to be paid for any bank holidays the period covered and hence a stamp (if bank hol in one of the weeks - think was two bank holidays over easter not sure.

basically if you entitled to get paid for a bank holiday get corresponding prsi credit. So if e.g. mid term has bank hol mon - get paid for the bank hol adn stamp for that day.

that is how it is. Check it out with social welfare. That's all I can say.

You may have signed but you would not have got PRSI credits.

When did you last sign? did they tell you you were getting a social welfare prsi credit for the weeks of your holiday pay that you were not entitled to jobseekers.

Really busy now, that's all I know on it and it's fact. check it out and see and let us know...

Rodar08

Still no word from Mr. Quinn. I also brought the prsi issue to his attention.

MaxFactor

Hi guys, I'm in a similar situation. Casual substitute teacher.. Due end of summer. I'm about to submit my mb10 form to claim maternity benefit from social welfare.. Who do I get to fill out the employer section of the form? I've no temp post and just going from school to school. Do I send it to dept of education?

happywithlife

You have to be in paid employment the day before your leave starts so I assume you have to backdate it to your employment - unless you are working over the summer? In which case the dept would fillit out I presume but I'd get it sorted ASAP

TheDriver

i thought you have to give notice to your BOM etc but you are now gone from that employment? worth a punt none the less

raglan

Am primary casual substitute teacher. I sent it to someone in Statutory Leave section, but ring up and get a name, just to be sure.