TT - training &/or equipment

ROK ON

I have done two TTs this year and enjoyed them immensely.
There are at least two more and maybe five more that I could di before summer is out.

While I was slow relative go most I set myself what I believed credible stretch targets and met or exceeded them on a standard road bike with a high profile (not very aero).

In both TTs I was at 93% of max HR for 11min and 95% of max HR for 27 mins. So in terms of exertion I gave it my all - perceived effort would concur with this assessment.

Now as I said I really enjoyed the tts - almost more than anything that I have done on a bike. So I want to get better.

Is there a particular type of training to get faster for same effort?
I currently do a mix of 5-15 min effort on the bike and in the turbo witha ficus on cadence and intensity.

Also fo a given level of exertion, what would equipment add over 16 and 20 km (& 40k).
I don't have a TT bike but have a reasonably aero road bike that with clip one or a full conversion could be turned into a TT bike.
Same question, all other things being equal what would a helmet and wheels add over 16/20/40km TT.
Also for any given spend could people that are good at tts rank the following in order of importance please:
Clip ons
Full TT bars
Aero helmet
Wheels
Deep section wheels
Full disc wheels.

I presume that for clip ons or full aero bars to be useful one needs to practice a good position and be able to stay there - that could be a job of work as I tend to shift around a lot.

Inquitus

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2010/04/biggest-bang-for-your-buck-in-time-trial-equipment/

Shoe covers
Aero Bars
Skin suit
Helmet

Raam

ROK ON wrote: »

I have done two TTs this year and enjoyed them immensely.

? Ride harder!

niceonetom

http://www.orwellwheelers.org/forum/5-racing/4025-club-skin-suits.html

Then take whichever of your road bikes has the shortest headtube, slam the stem, add some clip on aerobars, adjust your saddle position to get you up and forward enough to get your arse behind your shoulders and your belly off you knees and go out and suffer.

IM0

to get better at TT you need to develop the same amount of power you can produce in your normal position on the bike as the one on your TT setup, this is done with spending time in that aero position and also short fast efforts up to 5k while on that bike ideally.

IM0

Raam wrote: »

? Rider harder!

yeah you should be getting off the bike in pain and thinking to yourself Im never doing one of these again, go harder OP

lennymc

Power meter and work of your ftp.

Diarmuid

Equipment aside, I would suggest that threshold efforts in the aero position would be important training. ie 2x15min / 2x20min / 3x15min @ threshold.
And if you're enjoying TT's, you're doing it wrong

ROK ON

Thanks for the advice.

I have this goal that I would like to get most out of my present level of fitness on a road bike and then look to improve. I saw a guy last week on a road bike - coming into the finishing straight henhad a huge cadence and his body seemed motionless other than legs. He looked as if he was part of the bike. Head down, back practically parallel to the road. It was fantastic to see.

My present technique anyway is to have my saddle far forward, as I've always like to have my arms at as close to an90 degree angle as possible.

For the tts I grip the top of the hoods loosely with the bottom of my hands and try to stay in that position for as much as possible.
I have a Garmin that shows 2 variables, HR and cadence.
I work up toward 85-90% of HR and take it from there. For cadence I try to stay north of 105 for low gears and 95 for higher gears. It is this and aero that I want to improve.
World (or me) not ready for my corpulent mass I'm a skinsuit just yet.

Arthurdaly

Not sure what your lactate threshold is but 95% of max hr may be counter productive. How did you measure your max? I measured mine on a uphill sprint and I was white and dizzy after it. There is not a chance I would maintain 95% of that for 27 mins.

As others have mentioned tt helmet, skinsuit, tri bars, booties and position will bring the biggest gains. Threshold sessions on the turbo will bring big gains, not sure what your starting point is but you want to be building to 2x20 mins at threshold.

colm_gti

Just to chime in and add my 2c.

I performed comparatively better in TT's last year and decided to train with a focus on TTing over the winter, with the intention of developing the muscular endurance for riding in breaks etc. I picked up a second hand TT bike and trained on it at LT, and am now very comfortable on it....

BUT

Since the season kicked off, I've used it a grand total of ONCE in a competitive setting, and even then the course was so technical it negated the aero advantage I may have had on a TT bike....the winner was riding a road bike. On top of this, I'll be missing one of the two flat TT's in the ICL, I wouldn't dream of riding a TT bike on a hillclimb, and I wouldn't feel comfortable using it in a team TT. The only other TT's are in the middle of stage races....

Rás Dhun na nGall - hillclimb TT
Newry 3 Day - 2.7km, too short to see the advantage of a TT bike
Mullingar 2 Day - not happening this year
Suir Valley 3 Day - hillclimb TT
Ballinrobe 2 Day - 7km, probably still a bit short to see the advantage of a TT bike
Wexford 2 Day - not sure if there will be a TT in it yet
Bog Week 2 Day - 5km, too short to see the advantage of a TT bike
Charleville 2 Day - 6.4km, too short to see the advantage of a TT bike

I wish I'd looked over the calendar a bit more before dropping a wad of cash on the TT bike, as in all of the above I'd probably be every bit as competitive on my road bike with clip on bars, coupled with my skinsuit, aero helmet and shoe covers. It has me strongly considering shifting the TT bike on to fund the purchase of a fancier road bike....

TLDR, figure out your LT and train at that to perfect your TTing, get some clip on aero bars, shoe covers, a skinsuit and an aero helmet for competing.

Lumen

I agree with Colm.

Unless you're really going to train on a TT bike regularly (and spending loads of time browsing online for TT bikes doesn't translate), you may find that you go slower with a more aggressive geometry. This was my experience anyway.

Practically speaking I found it difficult or unpleasant to train on a dedicated TT bike in the winter due to lack of mudguards and difficulty in getting front lights set up properly with the more complex cockpit. With sufficient motivation I could do it, but its hard enough finding the motivation to do threshold intervals as it is.

Alternatively, if you don't do lots of training on it you'd have to set the TT bike up exactly the same as the road bike, and then what's the point?

FWIW my next road bike will have a shorter headtube and more spacers. That way I can drop the stem when I fit clip ons.

colm_gti

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my TT bike and the aggressive geometry, I am absolutely faster on it for a given effort now that I'm comfortable on it. I was lucky with regard to training on it, my threshold repeat sessions rarely last longer than about 60-80 minutes, and I've managed to miss the rain on 90% of these days, so the lack of mudguards and lighting issues never bothered me.

I just think that in my current situation (full time student), the money tied up in my TT bike would probably be better spent on upgrading my aluminium road frame...which has already seen 100 times more kilometers than my TT bike since the beginning of this year....

chakattack

ROK ON wrote: »

Thanks for the advice.

I have this goal that I would like to get most out of my present level of fitness on a road bike and then look to improve. I saw a guy last week on a road bike - coming into the finishing straight henhad a huge cadence and his body seemed motionless other than legs. He looked as if he was part of the bike. Head down, back practically parallel to the road. It was fantastic to see.

My present technique anyway is to have my saddle far forward, as I've always like to have my arms at as close to an90 degree angle as possible.

For the tts I grip the top of the hoods loosely with the bottom of my hands and try to stay in that position for as much as possible.
I have a Garmin that shows 2 variables, HR and cadence.
I work up toward 85-90% of HR and take it from there. For cadence I try to stay north of 105 for low gears and 95 for higher gears. It is this and aero that I want to improve.
World (or me) not ready for my corpulent mass I'm a skinsuit just yet.

So you don't really want to time trial, you just want to pedal fast with style :cool:

A really good bike fit would help fulfill that ambition.

longshank

ROK ON wrote: »

In both TTs I was at 93% of max HR for 11min and 95% of max HR for 27 mins. So in terms of exertion I gave it my all - perceived effort would concur with this assessment.

......your either an amazing anaerobic specimen or something wrong with your max HR figure?

ROK ON

I attempt to try this every year.
My max HR has come down from 190 about 5 years ago to 188 this year.

How doni calculate it:
I have a hill nearby that the final two km are between 14 & 18%.
any time I have done this I hit my HR. How do I know it is my max HR,
Well the last three times I have
(1) fainted - fell off bike and collapsed in a heap. Took a about a minute to come thru and several more minutes lying prone on the top of a mountain to vet the strength to stand up. I felt awful for days after the event. Pretty sure that was my max.
The other two times I wretched, once very badly. All times my max HR recoded at that point was 189/190.

I have since that time verified this on a local climb (5k at 4.5%). Get HR up before the climb hit climb at fast but controlled pace with HR 165-175. Last 1km I sprint for as fast and as long as I can.
When I did this last my HR recorded was 188. I also wretched and needed to sit down for about five minutes to recover.

I cross reference this on the turbo with sessions building up Ti all out high cadence high resistance sprint - max cadence 135/140.
Dizzy and hit 188.

The 93 & 95 % calculations over two tts quoted are from Gramin HR.
Data is in Strava so if you can see the br over the defined TT interval.

Every quarter I do a lthr test on the turbo. I follow Friels suggestion re warming up and going for a 20min effort.

I would consider myself fat but fitter than I have been for a long time. But I can climb for 20 minutes at HR of 90% plus on average.

I dont see why folks would regard this as some sort of super human capability.
Medical tests shown normal HR and blood pressure but higher than average HCT (52%).

Lumen

ROK ON wrote: »

I dont see why folks would regard this as some sort of super human capability. Medical tests shown normal HR and blood pressure but higher than average HCT (52%).

Your new nickname is "Mr 52%".

longshank

ROK ON wrote: »

I attempt to try this every year.
My max HR has come down from 190 about 5 years ago to 188 this year.

How doni calculate it:
I have a hill nearby that the final two km are between 14 & 18%.
any time I have done this I hit my HR. How do I know it is my max HR,
Well the last three times I have
(1) fainted - fell off bike and collapsed in a heap. Took a about a minute to come thru and several more minutes lying prone on the top of a mountain to vet the strength to stand up. I felt awful for days after the event. Pretty sure that was my max.
The other two times I wretched, once very badly. All times my max HR recoded at that point was 189/190.

I have since that time verified this on a local climb (5k at 4.5%). Get HR up before the climb hit climb at fast but controlled pace with HR 165-175. Last 1km I sprint for as fast and as long as I can.
When I did this last my HR recorded was 188. I also wretched and needed to sit down for about five minutes to recover.

I cross reference this on the turbo with sessions building up Ti all out high cadence high resistance sprint - max cadence 135/140.
Dizzy and hit 188.

The 93 & 95 % calculations over two tts quoted are from Gramin HR.
Data is in Strava so if you can see the br over the defined TT interval.

Every quarter I do a lthr test on the turbo. I follow Friels suggestion re warming up and going for a 20min effort.

I would consider myself fat but fitter than I have been for a long time. But I can climb for 20 minutes at HR of 90% plus on average.

I dont see why folks would regard this as some sort of super human capability.
Medical tests shown normal HR and blood pressure but higher than average HCT (52%).

That sounds pretty maxed out alright but you must be pretty fit to maintain for 30+mins a HR 10bpm below the point where you are collapsing. Personally I get tested in a lab to ensure reliable figures.

niceonetom

FWIW I also TT at ~92%maxHR. If properly motivated I can do so for about an hour. It's horrific.

ROK ON

niceonetom wrote: »

FWIW I also TT at ~92%maxHR. If properly motivated I can do so for about an hour. It's horrific.

The output of your horrific maybe ever so slightly higher than the output of my horrific.
Not sure that I can hold that for an hour. 20 mins plus is bloody hard, but I guess I will find out what it's like over 40k in a few weeks.

For a 40k the strategy must be different in terms of pacing.
Is it a gradual build up and then let fly for final 5/10/15k?

niceonetom

ROK ON wrote: »

The output of your horrific maybe ever so slightly higher than the output of my horrific.
Not sure that I can hold that for an hour. 20 mins plus is bloody hard, but I guess I will find out what it's like over 40k in a few weeks.

For a 40k the strategy must be different in terms of pacing.
Is it a gradual build up and then let fly for final 5/10/15k?

The difference in effort between a 10m and a 25m is actually very small - for me only about 3 or 4 lower bpm agv. That's part of the horror.

The biggest difference is the importance of pacing. You can go looking for the pain in a 10 and you should make it to the finish line before it kills you. In a 25 you really should let the pain come to you. The first 10 minutes are critical. I'd break a 25m into quarters - 10km each. On the course we do the third one, after the turnaround is usually the worst, by that stage you'll be deep in the cave, and your brain will be sullying loads of really plausible sounding excuses to ease up. Don't listen. Stupid brain. It's slightly uphill so you'll feel like your progress is unacceptable even if your power remains the same. Brazed it out. Once you make it to the last quarter you know you'll make it so its just time to empty yourself into the bike. Fumes will get you to the line.

joker77

I've made some gains in my TTing this year by focussing on breathing. Especially in the early/middle part - pacing myself and really trying to control the breathing. It's served as a distraction as well, have managed to shut out all the 'Just STOP' thoughts until nearer the end when they're a lot easier to manage.

As everyone else has said though - enjoyment? In a TT? Sick f*ck.