Clocked car

RATM

Just looking to get views on this. A mate bought a car from a car dealer a year ago. He brought it for a service during which the mechanic said he was almost certain that the car has been clocked. It had also developed some sort of engine problem that gives it a bit of a "diesel rattle". I don't know exactly what the problem is but the mechanic said he couldn't fix it himself and would need a specialist and would cost over €1000 to fix.

Anyway I think he has a case here but am looking for opinions. Naturally enough the dealer is not going to admit to selling a clocked car, chances are he is going to have to go the legal route. But the question is can you prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that a car is clocked ? I am wondering if he gets an independent expert to do a report on it and it comes back as clocked is this going to be enough ?

ba_barabus

What's the car?

mickdw

Some mechanics can be full of **** putting down on a car that wasnt bought at them.
What car is it?
Is there history with it?
Has your friend done history check on the car?
Is it an import?

colm_mcm

First thing to look at is service history.

RATM

colm_mcm wrote: »

First thing to look at is service history.

Wouldn't that just be forged with a clocked car though ? Car is a BMW, not sure if a service history came with it, I suspect it did.

The mechanic who serviced it is unlikely to be making this up, he is a sole operator who doesn't sell cars and is a friend of the family.

Is there some way it could be brought to BMW to verify if it is clocked or not ? I can only assume that if it is then any service history supplied is a crock of sh1t.

Supergurrier

Do a backround check, car doesn't need to have had done big milage for a terminal part failure, just has to have been improperly maintained.

Im guessing it wasn't an expensive car if your mate didn't have a mechanic check it over to have a backround check done before buying it.

166man

Diesel rattle would be a DMF going I'd imagine and €1k to put right sounds right. More of a (expensive) consumable these days unfortunately.

colm_mcm

RATM wrote: »

Wouldn't that just be forged with a clocked car though ? Car is a BMW, not sure if a service history came with it, I suspect it did.

If it came with it, and you can verify it to be true, then you have an answer.

If its false, then you have the hard task of figuring out who made it up, may not have been the person selling it to your friend.



When you say diesel rattle, I assume its a petrol car?

Stoolbend

What age BMW? Newer ones store the mileage and service history on the key.

Did he do a history check on it?

TouchingVirus

Stoolbend wrote: »

What age BMW? Newer ones store the mileage and service history on the key.

Did he do a history check on it?

And in other places. On a bimmer you could be looking at the instrument cluster, the DME (Engine Module), the LCM (Light Control Module), the key and perhaps other places too. If these cannot be reconciled with each other then the tamper dot will show on the dash by the clock. On older models like the E46 I believe all the modules can be programmed with software to sync up and not trigger the tamper dot but that's where Motorcheck/service history come in to help.

George Dalton

How old is the car and what mileage is showing on the clock?

biko

RATM wrote: »

he was almost certain that the car has been clocked.

That a pretty big accusation, what does he base that on? Did you ask?

bazz26

Depending on the age of the car the mileage on a BMW is stored in 3 places, the ECU, the dash dials and the key fob. If it has the fob type key similar to below then it can be brought to a BMW and they can plug it in and read the mileage.

RATM

Stoolbend wrote: »

What age BMW? Newer ones store the mileage and service history on the key.

Did he do a history check on it?

Don't think he did a history check on it. But as far as I remember it came with a FSH with receipts, etc. The year is 2008 and the key is one of those devices that you plug in to the car, not a traditional key as such. How do you go about finding the history from the key ?

RATM

bazz26 wrote: »

Depending on the age of the car the mileage on a BMW is stored in 3 places, the ECU, the dash dials and the key fob. If it has the fob type key similar to below then it can be brought to a BMW and they can plug it in and read the mileage.

That's the exact key so I guess he is in luck as the mileage should be stored on it. I'll tell him to take it into BMW for a check. Also what is the ECU and how can you read the mileage from it ?

Rob32

As mentioned above (and open to correction from Nissan doctor and/or George dalton) I'm quite sure the more modern cars do store the mileage readings in the ecu, so even if the car has been clocked(dashboard display) any diagnostic computer, with the right software, should be able to read the actual ecu mileage reading, but assuming the mechanic mentioned is going off tell tale signs ( pedal rubber wear, steering wheel wear, gear knob wear etc) he could be mistaken if for example the previous owner always rested a hand on the gearknob causing excess wear or perhaps rested his foot on the corner or the clutch pedal rather than the foot rest some cars have, I myself was convinced the car I own for the last 2 years had.substantially more mileage than the clocks showed due to the wear on the steering wheel, until I investigated and found proof it was not only correct but that the steering wheels in my brand of car do wear prematurely!!

RATM

biko wrote: »

That a pretty big accusation, what does he base that on? Did you ask?

Yeah I know and not one to be taken lightly, that's why he wants to be 100% sure it is clocked before he takes any further action. mechanic listed a few things that led him to believe it is clocked- the cars clock says it has 44,000 miles on it but the mechanic reckons it is more like 90k+. His reasons were very worn seats, worn pedals and "the colour of gunk in the engine", not sure exactly what that last reason means but he claimed the "gunk" changes colour over time with more and more milage and that whatever colour it is now is not consistent with a car that has done 44k. Not very scientific I know but that's all we have to go on right now

lifer_sean

If I were the owner, before I'd lose any more sleep over this, I'd (a) phone some of the garages listed on the service history and confirm that the history was/wasn't genuine, and (b) do a cartell/motorcheck history check on it, filling in the mileage that was on the car when it was bought from the dealer.

Not unusual for BMWs to generate rattly noises !

I'd tread very carefully here. I appreciate no-one has been named, but there are serious allegations flying around here without much evidence.

bazz26

RATM wrote: »

That's the exact key so I guess he is in luck as the mileage should be stored on it. I'll tell him to take it into BMW for a check. Also what is the ECU and how can you read the mileage from it ?

A 2008 model will definitely have the mileage recorded in 3 places. The ECU is the car's computer brain in layman's terms. Best thing to do is bring it to a BMW dealer, they will scan the key. However this is far from a reliable way of checking if the car was clocked if all 3 systems were tampered with. The proper way is to verify the service history by ringing the garages that serviced the car and asking them what work was carried out at the time and mileage that was stamped in the service schedule. Of course this is all retrospective at this stage and really should be done prior to buying the car.

djimi

I would have thought that a year after buying the car you would have virtually no chance of having any comeback regarding the clocking, unless you could prove without a shadow of a doubt that the seller knew about it when selling the car? Surely the seller has more than enough reasonable doubt to say that clocking could have happened in the year since the car was sold?