Pros and cons on these for a family car

Merch

I know these vehicles wont set any pulses racing, although I think the Jap imports can look sporty enough. I need the extra space as Im tired of trying to squash everything into the boot and on the back seat.
Im looking for opinions and experience for practicality, mechanical reliability, fuel efficiency.

I've been looking up vehicles and it seems an MPV is the way to go, I'd really prefer an estate but I think the extra room of an MPV is a better sense option, and in terms of practicality, there seems no point in going for too small an MPV.

The weekly mileage wont be too high and the vehicle older, so I think it is better to be a petrol although Im open to suggestions if a specific diesel has a good reputation for petrol like features and reliability with low mileage, I still prefer sub so, 1.6 to 1.8 as it keeps the motor tax lower, that seems to increase more after that.

A few vehicles come up when searching and selecting or deselecting options , Zafira, Scenic, Premacy, Stream.
I dont mind the Jap import look of Jap car, opposed to those for this market, as they have better spec and the interiors look better, the mileages are usually lower, but for some of the garages, the prices are quite high selling the imports.
I like the stream for space, its 1.7 so the tax is acceptable.
Same for the Mazda Premacy,
Neither of these imports seem to have a proper centre back seat (behind the front two seats)
I think the mechanicals like gearbox and engine on these are reliable?

The other options I am not as sure
Im not a fan in particular of Opels or Renaults, but the Scenic and Zafira check all the boxes. I think the interiors look ok on the Renault, but Im concerned about reliability, as for the Opel, I think they could be bland but I can tolerate that, so what are the gearboxes/engines like, whats the economy like, I can tolerate lower mpg to a point, but the odd long trip could be made
That'd be a 1.6 engine for the Scenic and a 1.6 and 1.8 for the Zafira, anything would have to be an auto gearbox.
A relative had an 04/05 (Mk2?) newer megane and it was plagued with problems, would these have been sorted in a later model scenic?

Toyotafanboi

whats your budget? plenty more MPV's out there than what you've mentioned. personally dont think i'd go near a scenic anyway.

Merch

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

whats your budget? plenty more MPV's out there than what you've mentioned. personally dont think i'd go near a scenic anyway.

No more than 7k budget, but preferably 5k.

Which MPVs you have in mind? I had thought the Ford C-max was smaller than the above vehicles, plus they all seem to be diesels.
I dont mind the look of the Scenic, I think it looks nice enough, but Id be concerned about reliability of electrics,gearbox/engine.
Im not sure mechanical/electrical reliability about the Opel either.

I suppose for the age of the car Id be getting, either it may have been sorted or it wont be working and will be obvious.

I'm looking for any good pros and any bad cons of the types from peoples experience.Maybe I just heard all the bad stuff about renaults.

The extra two seats in the back like the Zafira arent a necessity, but it is preferable/part of the whole reason to upgrade/have a boot that can take two buggies or double buggy and room left over.

I know this statement could be reviled, but I actually like the jap imported vehicles as the trim level interior and exterior looks better, only problem is they usually have the larger end of engine size, but still some 1.5-1.8 engines out there too, plus it needs to be auto for the wife to be able to drive.

bazz26

A petrol Mazda 5 or Toyota Corolla Verso are within budget:

http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Mazda/Mazda5/5-1.8/34813661205293140/



http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Toyota/Corolla-Verso/VERSO-1.6/33913668141706030/

Merch

I'll have a look at driving.ie
The Mazda 5 must be the successor to the Premacy, sliding doors be handy, hadnt seen that.
I'd prefer 1.6 but would go for a 1.8 if its a reliable car.
Didnt realise the verso came with a 1.6, I had ruled them out as they were all dearer, thats above the top of the price bracket but close enough that Id go for it. The mileages are both ok too
Those are manuals though, the wife cant drive manual, so it has to be an auto so we can both use it. Its a shame as they are nice options.
I hadnt come across that site though, so thanks.

bazz26

Asking prices are not set in stone. If you have a budget of €7k then you should be looking at cars upto about €8500 where you can negotiate on the asking price.

Looking for an auto will really limit your choice with Irish cars though so you probably will be looking at mostly Jap imports.

Merch

The reason I asked about the Renault is I came across one with low mileage, its not advertised yet, Im not sure how much it should go for, its an auto and a 1.6, but also as all my searching led me to that car and the zafira which seems to come in 1.6 and 1.8.
Out of the those two Id nearly prefer the renault scenic than the Zafira as I think it looks better interior trim.

Do either of those have any redeeming qualities or are they poor in certain depts.
Im just wondering if all Ive heard and some experiences of renaults being bad are just a matter of only hearing the bad stuff.

Personally Id prefer go for a Jap car for the reliability. Id go for an import except they seem so dear when sold from grey import dealers.

Merch

bazz26 wrote: »

Asking prices are not set in stone. If you have a budget of €7k then you should be looking at cars upto about €8500 where you can negotiate on the asking price.

Looking for an auto will really limit your choice with Irish cars though so you probably will be looking at mostly Jap imports.

Its more 5k, with the option to push to 6500, 7k being the limit if there was something outstanding.
I thought it would be a pain initially, but actually an automatic being an absolute necessity helps narrow it down rapidly.

I was looking online at jap imports, but Im still stunned at the prices for the years, I thought it was just the small cars in the jap imports that were fetching bigger money, but now after looking the mpvs are too. I know the spec and trim is higher as I've looked at small car grey imports and the difference is big, sitting in the same irish car makes astonishes me, they look bare with cheaper trim and way less electrics/features.

Kind of why I leaned to the Renault too, the trim/features is ok also,
Im just wondering does the 1.6 petrol engine and auto gearbox have a good rep or a bad one.

bazz26

Renaults of that vintage are hit and miss around reliability. While the mechanics are generably reliable but it's the electronics that can be a nightmare. I personally would not take a gamble on one.

The Zafira is probably more reliable than the Renault but I think the autos are all 1.8 litre and a fair majority of them were rentals at some stage of their life so may have been prone to abuse.

Merch

bazz26 wrote: »

Renaults of that vintage are hit and miss around reliability. While the mechanics are generably reliable but it's the electronics that can be a nightmare. I personally would not take a gamble on one.

The Zafira is probably more reliable than the Renault but I think the autos are all 1.8 litre and a fair majority of them were rentals at some stage of their life so may have been prone to abuse.

Thats what Im wondering, I know someone that had the megane mk2 and it had a lot of problems, it looked great inside and was comfortable, I think by the time they paid out the last time for repairs they decided it was time for it to go, I think that they probably fixed all the problems and should have held onto it after spending the money, so Im wondering if Renault/owners had sorted out all the problems in the intervening time or if it had been rectified for later models which I heard was the case?? just not sure from what year, but compared to the jap grey imports they seemed cheaper.

I never really thought about the Zafiras being rentals, they tick the size boxes but I am not really a fan of Opels. Id assumed most were family buses and abused that way. Whatever is gotten has to be bearable enough to drive for 5-6 years and maybe on longer so a few features wouldnt go astray.

I was hoping someone would come along and convince me the Scenics arent all that bad and that all the problems had generally been resolved, the 1.6 petrol was the most reliable and economical engine ever and that the auto box was solid

colm_mcm

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4911931

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4937371

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/5004215

christy02

colm_mcm wrote: »

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4911931

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4937371

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/5004215

All above are manual. Op looking for an auto box which makes search a lot harder.

colm_mcm

In that case, forget the verso completely. The autobox is muck

BrianD3

You haven't said what year the Scenic is. Assuming we're talking about the Scenic II here, there is a reliability difference between the pre facelift (03-06) and post facelift (06 on). The 1.6 petrol engine is decent in either case although I know nothing about the autobox.

Personally I'd have no qualms about getting a post facelift 1.6 petrol manual and would not be overly worried about a pre facelift 1.6 petrol manual. Add in an autobox and I'm not sure.

Here is a screenshot from the 2009 ADAC reliability report, the ADAC is the German equivalent of the AA and a report on breakdowns is produced every year based on thousands of callouts. More recent reports are available but they don't go back far enough for what you want.

Merch

christy02 wrote: »

All above are manual. Op looking for an auto box which makes search a lot harder.

colm_mcm wrote: »

In that case, forget the verso completely. The autobox is muck

The cars there are nice, but an auto is essential, I like the Honda Stream, 1.7 is a good sized engine regarding tax I think, bit unsure what the centre back seat is like, if its useable. Just the price of some of the grey imports is fairly high, suprisingly high, I thought it was just small engined cars that fetched that money.
Not sure why the auto is muck in the verso, but its good to know, as its a definte requirement, wife only has full auto on her licence and I dont want to be stuck doing all the driving, I dont even mind driving her auto anymore, must be getting old.

BrianD3 wrote: »

You haven't said what year the Scenic is. Assuming we're talking about the Scenic II here, there is a reliability difference between the pre facelift (03-06) and post facelift (06 on). The 1.6 petrol engine is decent in either case although I know nothing about the autobox.

Personally I'd have no qualms about getting a post facelift 1.6 petrol manual and would not be overly worried about a pre facelift 1.6 petrol manual. Add in an autobox and I'm not sure.

Here is a screenshot from the 2009 ADAC reliability report, the ADAC is the German equivalent of the AA and a report on breakdowns is produced every year based on thousands of callouts. More recent reports are available but they don't go back far enough for what you want.

Well, I was considering the older version initially, now its mostly the newer version, so scenic II. Thanks for the report, it seems quite telling, prior to 2004/5 the report doesnt look good for the Scenic, but after its comparable or even better. I may consider buying from the UK so could go up the years for a better car and the newer the better if it checks the boxes like service history and all round condition.[/S] edit, scratch that, I just looked a the vrt website, I thought VRT would be something normal, but even for vehicles up to 2007, its a few grand, I might have been able to get it taxed on the old cc system but it looks like they VRT them on emissions, as when I stick in a 1.5 diesel it is 3 times lower at around €740. €2500 for a 1.6 petrol is too much, I dont want a diesel as the mileage doesnt justify it and Id be concerned about diesel maintenance costs and problems from low mileage use. I could just add the above money to the price here including other costs and get something here in petrol.
Id have said any year previously but now maybe 2006 or newer for a better condition Scenic or 2002/3 for another cheaper car or a grey import.

colm_mcm

The automatic in the verso is an automated manual box called MMT (or multimode) and is an absolute dog of a thing to drive. The renault version works much better in practice - but there's no way I'd buy an automatic scenic. Manual possibly.

Merch

I'm backing off on the idea of the Premacy, its 1.84 litres, which goes up a tax bracket and not as near my preferred 1.6, but more to the point the mpg isn't good from checking online. Even though I wouldn't be doing much mileage which kind of discounts that, I dont like the idea of something that does bordering on poor mileage.

Is there a good way to check, without going to motorcheck websites etc for the mileage history? via NCT, otherwise its a few quid every time you are interested in a car, if i was selling something for a few quid, Id provide the report myself to give piece of mind to a seller and ensure a sale.

Anything else to check for the authenticity of ??

bazz26

If it is a Jap import then you can take the mileage with a grain of salt unless you get to see the auction sheet. They all magically happen to arrive here off the ship with about 50k km on them.

BTW your choice will be very limited with a 1.6 auto. Your pest bet is probably a Honda Stream which is 1.7 litre.

Merch

bazz26 wrote: »

If it is a Jap import then you can take the mileage with a grain of salt unless you get to see the auction sheet. They all magically happen to arrive here off the ship with about 50k km on them.

BTW your choice will be very limited with a 1.6 auto. Your pest bet is probably a Honda Stream which is 1.7 litre.

I dont know what the story with the mileage is, I have heard the same myself, but I see very low mileage on some and the cars are in excellent condition, some look like they have hardly been used, this is the interior trim, theres no deleting that kind of wear and tear, like upgrading an odometer? I look at the condition and compare it to the mileage, if it seems plausible then its a possibility. Unless they have some super duper cleaning products that restores everything to new ?

While I'd ruled out diesels, Im trying to find out which VAG diesel is pre refined with DMF and DPF's?
It seems there are 3 1.9 diesel engines types? a 1896, 1897, 1898.
Which would be the best one to look at/avoid, Im considering maybe an Octavia for the boot size (and access) or possibly an estate of some form in VAG
Or maybe even an Opel astra estate :eek: in whatever drives them? is the 1.7 a refined diesel? (I dont want refined) or even in a petrol (cc? 1.6??)

My other options were petrol 1.6 in a focus estate
or petrol in an Octavia 1.6 or 1.8? in the hatch or estate (combi) any ideas what they are like on the economy side of things

In autos

Arciphel

Have you considered a Seat Altea? I've had two, a 1.6 petrol and a 1.9 TDI XL (the estate one) and both were absolutely bullet proof, never gave me an ounce of trouble. Very roomy inside, big boot, good equipment and nice looking.

Merch

Arciphel wrote: »

Have you considered a Seat Altea? I've had two, a 1.6 petrol and a 1.9 TDI XL (the estate one) and both were absolutely bullet proof, never gave me an ounce of trouble. Very roomy inside, big boot, good equipment and nice looking.

I haven't, havent even looked at it and, Im sure I have an idea of what shape that vehicle is, but I'll look it up now, if its what Im thinking, I've seen very few around. I thought it was a smaller car inflated in size (like the brava/multipla), its even a vehicle Id consider, preferably the newer one, but they dont seem to be available in autos, I assume anyone that purchased for that purpose is holding onto them and driving them on as the family bus.
Is the 1.9 TDI (xl?) a new refined diesel or an older reliable and bulletproof (if you or anyone else knows), an estate would be good.(edit, I see the estates are the newer versions)
were yours autos??

It seems to come in a 1.6 tdi too, probably a 1.6 petrol be better for me, thats a good boot
very few autos, but I wouldnt have thought of it really, I dont know why