Mullingar 2 Day 2013

Slo_Rida

Hey
I'm planning on doing this next month and just thought I'd kick off a thread.
I presume the routes and number of laps are the same. Heres a thread from last year:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79452634
Just wondering does anybody have any advice from doing it before? Especially wrt accommodation and the TT.
Looks like good fun, were there breaks or splits or bunch sprints last year? I presume the fastest TT generally wins overall? I can't find results for 2012 only 2011 and it seems there was an 8km TT that year instead of the 3km last year. If anyone can post last years results, that would be cool...
Slo

ryan_sherlock

I did it last year - an excellent race. I wrote a bit of a report on it: http://ryansherlock.blogspot.ie/2012/07/2012-mullingar-2-day.html

buffalo

I heard rumours this was cancelled...

colm_gti

buffalo wrote: »

I heard rumours this was cancelled...

Heard it was going to be replaced with a 1 day event...

Slo_Rida

colm_gti wrote: »

Heard it was going to be replaced with a 1 day event...

Ah Jaysus! I'll drop the organiser a call/text, Joe I think.

lennymc

hopefully its not cancelled - i really enjoyed this last year and was planning on doing it this year.

Given the number of people turning up to races, does anyone know why events are being cancelled?

buffalo

colm_gti wrote: »

Heard it was going to be replaced with a 1 day event...

I heard that was going to be replaced with a 15 minute crit.

manwithaplan

buffalo wrote: »

I heard that was going to be replaced with a 15 minute crit.

The Mullingar Quarter of an Hour.

I heard it was being held somewhere else.

colm_gti

manwithaplan wrote: »

The Mullingar Quarter of an Hour.

I heard it was being held somewhere else.

So the Mullingar 2 Day is a 15 minute crit in Corkagh park?

Slo_Rida

Perfect example of a thread getting a life of it's own!!!
8 and a half hours until Friday

manwithaplan

colm_gti wrote: »

So the Mullingar 2 Day is a 15 minute crit in Corkagh park?

Probably. Mullingar 2 Day, Somewhere Else 2 Moro.

buffalo

manwithaplan wrote: »

Probably. Mullingar 2 Day, Somewhere Else 2 Moro.

Get out.

buffalo

lennymc wrote: »

Given the number of people turning up to races, does anyone know why events are being cancelled?

Note on SB might give an idea: "This weekend’s St Finbarr’s Road race, scheduled for Whitechurch in Cork on Sunday, has been cancelled due to a lack of volunteers."

If you're not already involved in your club, get in touch with the committee and see if you can help!

(not directed at lennymc )

Chips Lovell

I can't comment on every race, but most of the time it seems to be a lack of volunteers and, in some cases, sponsors. Given the numbers in the sport now, it's a real shame to see races getting cancelled.

Slo_Rida

colm_gti wrote: »

Heard it was going to be replaced with a 1 day event...

What he said.

CI will send out the exact details but it's gonna be a 1-day GP on the Sunday catering for the same cats instead. Lack of sponsors is the reason.
Shame since all reports were top notch but if you heard the costs that are involved its mind blowing, I mean astronomical. Very nice fella too.

Charleville 2 day anyone?

Slo_Rida

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

, in some cases, sponsors.

That's the problem here anyway. I was stunned to hear the number that this race costs. For an amateur sport it's just not right.

Here's a thought:
Should we expect prize money? Should it be for pride instead? Should we expect sandwiches and cake after? Should the cost of commisaires be looked at? Can any of the other major costs be looked at?

I'm relatively new to the sport compared to some posters here but in GAA and rugby it's mostly voluntary with referee expenses being covered. Just throwing it out there since there are a few races being cancelled despite the sport rocketing in popularity.

smithslist

Slo_Rida wrote: »

CI will send out the exact details but it's gonna be a 1-day GP on the Sunday catering for the same cats instead. Lack of sponsors is the reason.
Shame since all reports were top notch but if you heard the costs that are involved its mind blowing, I mean astronomical. Very nice fella too.

Charleville 2 day anyone?

Does the cost include many extras that aren't needed, but stil at that the race isn't viable to run...extra's I mean is extra ambulance, food\drink afterwards, photography company booked for event etc

Peterx

Slo_Rida wrote: »

That's the problem here anyway. I was stunned to hear the number that this race costs. For an amateur sport it's just not right.

Here's a thought:
Should we expect prize money? Should it be for pride instead? Should we expect sandwiches and cake after? Should the cost of commisaires be looked at? Can any of the other major costs be looked at?

I'm relatively new to the sport compared to some posters here but in GAA and rugby it's mostly voluntary with referee expenses being covered. Just throwing it out there since there are a few races being cancelled despite the sport rocketing in popularity.

There's too much prize money anyway. Money down to 6th or 8th in every cat is ridiculous.
Scrap prize money entirely, possibly excepting the top 3 in the top event. Keep the tae and sangiches though.
Definitely pay for commissionaires if funds allow after that.
Clubs should NOT be putting races on at a loss.

CillianL

This is ****, for all the uptake in cycling here the growth has been catering for fat oul' fellas who want to feel 'suffer' in the local sportive.

That's where the money is, its no accident that bike tours and sportives cost more than real racing even though the dangers are less.

The bike shops haven't done too bad out of this arrangement either.

Gob****es trying to grind off years of lard isn't the future of cycling here.

buffalo

smithslist wrote: »

Does the cost include many extras that aren't needed, but stil at that the race isn't viable to run...extra's I mean is extra ambulance, food\drink afterwards, photography company booked for event etc

I would like my extra ambulance kept please!

Esroh

CillianL wrote: »

This is ****, for all the uptake in cycling here the growth has been catering for fat oul' fellas who want to feel 'suffer' in the local sportive.

That's where the money is, its no accident that bike tours and sportives cost more than real racing even though the dangers are less.

The bike shops haven't done too bad out of this arrangement either.

Gob****es trying to grind off years of lard isn't the future of cycling here.

Well Cillian as someone who definitely got into cycling thru sportives and you would probably class me as old .Its us who have increased the club membership by 50%.

I am one of the oldest of the 'Ould fella's' in the club and because the handful of racing lads looked after me and many others we give something back by volunteering at Club races(the club runs 3 open races).
We oversee the club beginner spins and the Leisure and Sportive riders groups.
We now have a strong Ladies spin which has grown out of these.(some have moved onto club racing)

The Club had 8 riders in Kanturk, of the 6 A2/A3's 5 started out with us as did the 2A4s ( aged18 to 32). With top 10 placings in stages and GC of both Races.

When We joined 8 years ago if the Lads had had your attitude about us being there I doubt we would have stuck around.

Some of these G**sh**es you refer to could with encouragement be the future of growth in your club but they have to be made welcome.

Slo_Rida

I think ambulances must stay. Are there any commissaires here? Could club commitee members be trained up (at low/no cost) and then play the role of volunteer commissaire at their club races thus saving the cost of their travel, accommodation and board?
I fully agree that cash prizes could be spared for the top 3 of the top race and maybe the winner of the other races. A cheap trophy with the race name on it would mean more to me than a €20 note that's gone on petrol the same day. Not that I'll be in the running for either...just saying.

fago

What are the other options to ensure more races
- mandate that clubs whose members have racing licenses have to organise at least one event per year, or do one jointly with another club. As has been pointed out a relatively low percentage of clubs organise open races.
- increase the entry fee to €15
- cycling ireland provide money to bridge the gap between number who sign on and the cost on running an event so the club is never at a loss.

In my view the general problem is riders like turning up on a Sunday and having a hassle free race. They are less fond of volunteering.

smithslist

fago wrote: »

What are the other options to ensure more races
- mandate that clubs whose members have racing licenses have to organise at least one event per year, or do one jointly with another club. As has been pointed out a relatively low percentage of clubs organise open races.
- increase the entry fee to €15
- cycling ireland provide money to bridge the gap between number who sign on and the cost on running an event so the club is never at a loss.

In my view the general problem is riders like turning up on a Sunday and having a hassle free race. They are less fond of volunteering.

I understand this approach, but riders need to understand - 'no volunteers, no race'.

When the club is organizing a race, really there members shouldn't be allowed to race, only if they have enough to cover marshaling, and even that allow underage-u16-J-W to race in that order...meaning priorities who can race from the juniors upwards.

From a personal point of view, when Im competing I like to see racing based riders marshaling because they know of the accidents\issues that may arise at a certain time of a race\corner\doing lead car etc. This is no dis-respect to non-racing cyclists, as we all do great jobs by giving large amount of time to this sport.

On another point, yes there are alot of added costs that seemed to be required(photography, post race food etc), apart from the basic necessities(marshals, ambulance, prizes etc). I look back years ago and wonder how the races were ran requiring such less. Another thing, some clubs instead of paying for catering for there race ask club members to bring a tray of food each (sambo's, cakes etc) and bring them to the event for the post race food.

Mr_Right

Just to confirm, the views expressed by CillianL are not those of his club!

michael196

Slo_Rida wrote: »

I think ambulances must stay. Are there any commissaires here? Could club commitee members be trained up (at low/no cost) and then play the role of volunteer commissaire at their club races thus saving the cost of their travel, accommodation and board?
I fully agree that cash prizes could be spared for the top 3 of the top race and maybe the winner of the other races. A cheap trophy with the race name on it would mean more to me than a €20 note that's gone on petrol the same day. Not that I'll be in the running for either...just saying.

One days cost at least 1000 to put on,
usually few hundred for ambulances,
few hundred for food
few hundred for underage prices,
hall rent,
motor bike marshalls
stationary / printing / signage
camera / video

Double all this for a 2 day .

Biggest cost is time, so always remember to thank your organiser !!

Clubs never make money on races. Reducing prizes endangers the race because, if a rider felt they had a chance to get a top 6th place cash prize , rather than a top 3rd cash prize, you are more likely to come along. To give it a shot.
Your club money is committed for the day, whether 20 or 200 turn up.
Also race circuits that are too tough , turn people off, too short turn people off, not enough prize money,

This year we reduced our top prize money, but gave more prizes. If riders accept less money , then races can be less dependant on sponsors. But a minimum of 500 is needed for a race.
Think about it : 100 sign on = 1000 income . Less 1000 running costs of above = club make a loss of the amount of all the prize money.

If riders accept lower top amounts, that’s good, if Leinster CI permitted 15 sign on as per munster, that’s needed also. Races will continue to be put on, and remember if ur club race is in jeopardy, call around your county clunbs to help. Don’t loose a race slot , like the betty darcy in Wexford.

michael196

Commissaires for our 1 day Frank O Rourke cost 225 euro ( 75 euro each )

buffalo

michael196 wrote: »

Reducing prizes endangers the race because, if a rider felt they had a chance to get a top 6th place cash prize , rather than a top 3rd cash prize, you are more likely to come along. To give it a shot.
Your club money is committed for the day, whether 20 or 200 turn up.
Also race circuits that are too tough , turn people off, too short turn people off, not enough prize money,

Speaking personally, it's rare that I evaluate a race on the basis of prizes. First criteria is location - the nearer the better, so where ever there's a Leinster race on, I'm usually there. After that comes hilliness, because that's what I'm good at - so I travelled to Nenagh instead of Drogheda a few weeks back (sorry lads!).

I have never thought, "ah, the X Memorial race, sure that was only €20 for 3rd place last year, I'm not going to bother this year". Has anyone? Screw the cash, if I got a medal I'd be pleased.

I admit, if there were two similar races, similar distances away, and one was giving top 15 prizes, and the other top 6, that might influence me. But if the top 15 one was in Munster, and the top 6 was in Leinster, I wouldn't be arsed travelling all the distance to increase my chances by a negligible amount. And when there's usually only one race per province anyway, it doesn't really matter.

Pawlie

Top 3 get medals or something similar in cat a4 & a3,then maybe keep cash prizes for A1/A2 cats,lads should be only racing to get points for upgrade to the top tier,well thats my motive anyway,I would sooner have a couple nice medals or ornaments for my placings rather than cash that is well spent by now.

Pablo Rubio

CillianL wrote: »

This is ****, for all the uptake in cycling here the growth has been catering for fat oul' fellas who want to feel 'suffer' in the local sportive.

That's where the money is, its no accident that bike tours and sportives cost more than real racing even though the dangers are less.

The bike shops haven't done too bad out of this arrangement either.

Gob****es trying to grind off years of lard isn't the future of cycling here.

I'm not in Cillians clubs but as part of the Competitive Racing Cycling community in Ireland I'd like to express that these are not my views either. I definitely think there will be a few people in Cillians club who do not do open races( but mainly leisure cycling) but often assist in marshalling and race organising duties will be very disappointed in his comments.

dermabrasion

Races for points and / or medals. The cash is BS unless you are edging toward a career in this.

boege

FFS lads, costs are rising, I dont think any club is incurring unnecessary costs when running a race, entry fees should rise, its that simple. I dont see anyone in Munster complaining at €15 and I suspect it could (and will) go higher.

As for volunteers, marshalling should be compulsory for lower cat club members. It should be seen as part of the training.


Signed
Gob****e trying to grind off years of lard (and who happily marshals at races)

wav1

Please see my recent post in the tread''worrying trend of cancelling races''We're trying to buck the trend.

lennymc

boege wrote: »

As for volunteers, marshalling should be compulsory for lower cat club members. It should be seen as part of the training.

why only lower cat club members and not all club members? Genuine question

boege

lennymc wrote: »

why only lower cat club members and not all club members? Genuine question

Gotta have some local interest, local support, media coverage, club sponsors, etc. TBH a properly sized club should have adequate marshals without having to use riders.

Intrigued by cancellation of this event as club has large membership and last year I rated it one of the better organised events of the season. Sponsors probably required to maintain certain standard so suspect money the issue.

buffalo

boege wrote: »

Gotta have some local interest, local support, media coverage, club sponsors, etc. TBH a properly sized club should have adequate marshals without having to use riders.

Ah here now, there's no such thing as a properly sized club! Is there? I agree that it'd be good for hosting clubs to able to enter their A1 riders, and preferably their A2 riders. Beyond that as possible.

ROK ON

I find it difficult to stomach the idea of prize money for sport. I have never supported the idea in any sport regardless of the tradition.

It would appear that organisers are if the view that lower or no prize Monet impacts the turnout or success of the race.

I would love to know:
Who here chooses a race on the basis of the prize pot,
What cat are you in?

Also I do not agree with cross subsidisation. If the most senior cats want cash prizes that should be reflected in the race cost IMO.

Clubs and racers need to be sensible. I the goal is to have a race in a sat and Sunday then a well run race should suffice. Soup sandwiches and prize money are the cream on the cake.
I help out with a local triathlon where I live. The club has a simple policy - if you want to race in the clubs own race you can do so if you provide a Marshall in your stead. The club also has entered an arrangement with a nearby tri club to use share marshals for events.

joker77

Pawlie wrote: »

Top 3 get medals or something similar in cat a4 & a3,then maybe keep cash prizes for A1/A2 cats,lads should be only racing to get points for upgrade to the top tier,well thats my motive anyway,I would sooner have a couple nice medals or ornaments for my placings rather than cash that is well spent by now.

This is perfect.

killalanerr

Lads if you're in this for the money you're in the wrong sport i heard some numbers in relation to what some of our new pros are getting and i can tell you it would not be my career choice,unless you qualify for a SC grant and we all know the minefield that is
As for prize money afaik CI have no set min or max if prize money is the issue for a club not running a race it should cut prize fund to the first 3 in A2/3/4 to pay €30/20/10 with all the point scorers being published in the results as making it on to sticktbottle is where the real glory is at theses levels ,i would like the A1 prize fund to be as much as the club could afford without the club running at a loss as this is used to supplement the income of theses often full time riders also we will have to look at the cost of entries my preference would for them not to rise but its a case of realty bites.
At the end of the day funding could be the least of our problems unless it can be worked out with the authority's to allow racing on open public roads the calendar could get very small indeed

not sane

Disagree totally about the comment about prizes supplementing a full time riders income. There are plenty of A1/A2 riders working full time and racing. If I was an A2 rider and racing against A1s and the prizes where consistently being taken by full time riders I'd be pretty peeved of. And as an A3 rider myself I personally would not like the entry fee to go up because of this reason.

killalanerr

not sane wrote: »

Disagree totally about the comment about prizes supplementing a full time riders income.
If I was an A2 rider and racing against A1s and the prizes where consistently being taken by full time riders I'd be pretty peeved of.
And as an A3 rider myself I personally would not like the entry fee to go up because of this reason.

Not sure what you're disagreeing with if your a full time rider prize money will be part of your income
As A2s almost always race with the A1s the the prize money would given be to the winner regardless of what cat they are whats to be peeved about whats wrong with the best riders geting the best prize fund
Your missing my point the increase would be to help clubs with the cost of promoting an event and as i have said i wouldnt like to see entry fees go up to much but the entry fee should cover to cost of the event

Pawlie

killalanerr wrote: »

Your missing my point the increase would be to help clubs with the cost of promoting an event and as i have said i wouldnt like to see entry fees go up to much but the entry fee should cover to cost of the event

Agree too,
15 yo yos average for munster racing,so why cant leinster be the same,I know its 10 yo yos but I reckon that is too cheap to run 3-5 races on one day,they should have set cost across all provinces,I would hate to see races continually being cancelled due to running at a loss,especially when you are training all week gearing towards the weekend,would lads rather race or not.

michael196

Pawlie wrote: »

Agree too,
15 yo yos average for munster racing,so why cant leinster be the same,I know its 10 yo yos but I reckon that is too cheap to run 3-5 races on one day,they should have set cost across all provinces,I would hate to see races continually being cancelled due to running at a loss,especially when you are training all week gearing towards the weekend,would lads rather race or not.

Race Funding: How to survive ........an open race with ur club financially in tact.


Race Entry fee is set by cycling leinster /Cycling munster etc. all races per province must then charge the same. I understand in 2014 Leinster will go 15 euro.



Our club policy is to put as many racers in as we can, into our own open races.



Our Committee does support medal only prizes, for open race categories.

We have not done that yet. The risk is , will you loose your audience and hence ur race ? could trial it in 2014.



do not guarantee a prize fund. prize fund is only guaranteed after the sign on, when costs are taken and the remaining amount can be divided up.


Club policy is break even on costs, give out what u take in, using the sponsor funds to help fill the gap. For that reason we cannot guarantee a prize fund, nor will we advertise or give a guaranteed pot.



Wexford recognises A3 and A4 as the main categories who fund the whole show. If categories (a1-a2, A3/A4), accepted reduced amount (cost) of prizes but increased 'entertainment / atmosphere) would that be acceptable ?


If the organising club, felt that we could reduce prize money and send those funds to the event: in the creation of a greater atmosphere i.e. perhaps a PA system / entertainment during the race (music) for those remaining at the stage start /finish, with live race radio link, that is where we would direct additional funds that we might have spent in white envelopes.



A1/ A2 remains a challenge as the numbers are always smaller, but (prize) costs equal to the larger A3/A4. We are always asked to cover A1/A2. Maybe then the A1/A2 prize fund should get reduced to be proportional. I think that will happen in 2014.


we have in the past, ruled out categories in our open races , based upon the cost of prizes.


Where that brings us is: large group: large ability to fund prizes. Smaller group : much less prizes.


CI discourage money as a prize for A4.

As an organiser, we want the event to run each year, run on reduced income ( from sponsors) break even, include as many categories, include ur own members, alter the route to prevent the hamster in a wheel effect.


I would venture to say, that u will see changes to events in 2014, more medals / trophy, more entertainment for the spectator at the HQ, different types of marshalling, more mobile / motor bike marshals will permit greater flexibility.

michael196

Income : say 1000 euro sign on ( after all costs taken out)

Categories: taking A1 as example: signed on 30 riders.

Prizes: 1,2,3, 4,5,6


take each prize position as a race unit :
( add 1plus 2 plus 3....plus 6 = 21 ) : 21 Race Prize units


( bear with me !! )


so for the above race the rider coming first gets 6 times the value of the lad
coming 6th.


so 1000/ 21 = 47 euro

first over the line = 6 x 47 = 282
Second = 5 * 47 = 235
third = 4 * 47 = 188
fourth = 3 * 47 = 141
fifth = 2 * 47 = 94
6th = 1 * 47 = 47

total = paid out : 987 = below budget.





Bring in A2/ A3 /A4
A2 = 0.9 Race prize unit

A2: 21 race prize units : lower value = 21* 0.9 = 19 units

A3: 0.8 Race prize unit: = 17 units

A4: Race prize unit: 0.7 = 15 units



total units now is 15 +17+19+21 = 72

Prize unit = 1000 / 72 = 14 euro

Top a1 = 6* 14 = 84 euro
second 5* 14 = 70
third 4 * 14 = 56

A1 becomes (6*14) = 84 top prize (total category 294)

A2 = (6*14) *0.9 = 75 top prize ( total category 260)

A3 = (6*14) *0.8 = 65 top prize (total category 235)

A4 = (6*14) *0.7 = 58 top prize (total category 205)


Total after second / third to 6th in each category = 999 euro



If sign on incomes rises or falls, the Unit price rises or falls accordingly.

buffalo

Official notice: http://www.cyclingireland.ie/Home/News/Event-Updates.aspx

The Mullingar 2Day scheduled to take place on the 29th and 30th of June has been reduced to a single day race on Sunday 30th June.

Unfortunatly the promoting club Lakeside Wheelers were unable to secure a sponsor to enable us to run a two day event this year. The single day Mullingar GP will be held on Sunday 30th June, with the race HQ at the usual location, Mullingar Rugby Club (junction 17 off N4). Sign on will be from 10:00 to 11:30am with the first race starting at 12:00. Seperate races will be held for Ladies, A4 , A3 and A1/2 . Online entry will be available shortly on our web site www.lakesidewheelers.ie .

Pawlie

buffalo wrote: »

Official notice: http://www.cyclingireland.ie/Home/News/Event-Updates.aspx

Main thing is at least we have a race,would have loved to do the 2 dayer,but delighted there is one on Sunday