History vs Spanish

A97

Hello all. I've already submitted my subject choices with Spanish as my fourth and final choice and History as a back-up fifth in case I'm unable to get one of my first four choices. However, going into 5th year next year, I feel rather uncomfortable doing Spanish (Perhaps my worst subject.) over History. (Statistically my best subject. My teacher has encouraged me to try for 100% in the Junior Cert.) I chose Spanish as the vast majority of universities require a continental language for entry. Ideally, I'd like to go to Trinity, but I've been encouraged to keep my options open for courses in colleges such as UCD etc. That said, I would miss doing History and I feel it would be more beneficial to my education and for gaining Leaving Cert points. As I am reasonably good at it and I like it, surely it would be easier to work on rather than something I'm poor at and I don't enjoy as much.

If you're curious, I've never gotten below 90% in any History exam and I believe an A at Junior Cert should be achieved at Higher Level. I'm about a B/C student at Spanish and I'm realistically striving for a B at Higher Level.

What subject would look better on a CV? I know a lot of companies like Spanish speakers especially for international language communication. As far as where I'm going in life, I don't know. However, I'd lean towards a Science or Law based career but that certainly isn't set in stone. I'm currently studying Irish at Higher Level and I wouldn't want to study Spanish outside school at Ordinary Level. I would rather do Applied Maths as it has a short enough course and it overlaps with Maths and Physics.

It may be impossible to change my mind at this point anyway, but what do you think? Should I just work really hard at the Spanish, try to change my choice, attempt History outside school? Any feedback would be appreciated.

mossy95

If you were to carry on Spanish to third level education and do course in it, it would be highly beneficial in the future when applying for jobs having a degree in Spanish.Now a days in this economic climate it would be very wise to study a language in College its Business are on the prowl for people with 2nd and even 3rd language.

If you were you to carry on Spanish just for the Leaving cert they will just see it as any other subject you did for your leaving cert and you most likely will have not retained any Spanish you have done for the Leaving and even you still did retain your Spanish its still not enough to be considered high enough stranded.

Take Spanish over history or do History outside of school cause you will rule out a lot of good colleges by not taking Spanish and If I were you I would take it to third level to improve my Job chances.

A97

Thanks for the reply mossy. I don't think it would be wise for me to study Spanish (or Irish) in third level as they are my worst subjects. They aren't awful and I'd hope to retain a B or C Higher Level standard for the Leaving Cert but I can't imagine doing either at Third Level. I'd be more likely to pursue a career in one of my other subjects such as something relating to English, Maths, Physics, Biology, Accounting or possibly anything related to Applied Maths. I'll keep your comment in mind though. Being multilingual is very important but it's not where my talents lie.

DublinArnie

I'm in the same boat as you.

A97

It's definitely a predicament. If I do Applied Maths, hopefully I'll be comfortable enough with six subjects and the two languages will be there should I need them. However, I would still like to do History instead.

For anybody who did either subject, is the Leaving Cert a big step up in those subjects? I know the Leaving Cert is supposed to be very difficult but if I'm good at a subject, should I expect similar results for the workload? Would it be harder to do a course like History that I like but is vast and reliant on essay writing or a probably simpler course that I'm weaker at? Which would be the greater workload for high marks?

The green and red

Id describe Leaving Cert history as a whole new subject from Junior Cert, there is very little learning off facts as there was in Junior Cert. The focus of LC history is being able to formulate an argument and communicating it inm an essay, all of which will be in a short space of time.

A97

I'm generally good at essay writing. Would it beneficial for my English or Irish essays? Also, would it be a relatively natural transition from Junior Cert e.g. do people take to it well/easily? Finally, do you find the subject to be a strain/tiring? My sister does Religion for Leaving Cert and since that subject is also heavily essay based, she finds it a tougher subject to actually do the work in as opposed to something like French, yet she gets good grades in it anyway.

I know there's a misconception that History is a long course that takes up all of your time. Would you agree or disagree with that and how would you compare the effort and workload with your subjects? I understand every Leaving Cert subject requires a substantial amount of work, but would History be a particularly long, time-consuming course?

Canard

Just gonna throw in my opinions on history. My sister's class didn't even finish the course and mine barely did...and both of our teachers left out tons of material. The essays are difficult to do well in; I got extremely lucky in my LC because I learned ~6 essays off in total (I really hated the subject and didn't care to get more than a D) and then everything I learned came up, but despite the fact that my teacher had given each of them 90+/100, I ended up with between 62-67 on all of them except the document, which I got around 80 for. Even my research topic only got 90/100 despite me doing it ahead of time, but maybe that was a fault on my teacher's part. (I know that's not a bad mark, but the average is 89).

Overall it's totally different to JC. I loved JC history, but I hated LC history and really regret doing it.

Then again, if you love it so much you probably could do very well in it since you'd have original, enthusiastic opinions on things. Spanish is a good option too seeing as it's a language and can get you into more colleges, and a B is still a great grade to get in the LC if you keep it up to that standard. History is tiring though, you have to practice writing essays in 35-40 minutes on the spot to do it for the exam, which is torture!

A97

Thanks for the informative post. I think I'll probably stick with the Spanish then and hope for the best. If all goes well, I'll get into a good class eager to learn with a good teacher. All I really want is to make the correct decision with regards to relative ease (if there is any) in the Leaving Cert as well as what's best for points purposes as well course requirements. If History is a huge workload and if it's the worse subject for courses, I'll stick with the Spanish.

The green and red

The workload isn't that big in relation to any other subjects in my opinion. We covered the course in class and did maybe two essays a week. We finished the course around a month ago. It picks up around now before the Leaving cert as im doing an essay a night but other than that the workload isn't huge

Jolly Red Giant

A97 wrote: »

If History is a huge workload and if it's the worse subject for courses, I'll stick with the Spanish.

History has no bigger a workload than any other subject.

It is broken into five sections
1. A research project - and despite complaining Canard got 90% and blamed the teacher for not getting more.
2. A Document Based Question
3-5 Three essays - from different sections of the course.

The history course is structured to allow students secure a B at higher level. Generally students who do not get a B, fail to get the grade because they don't put in the work.

Final point - LC history is not about learnig off large amounts of information - it is about analysing and questioning - forming an opinion and backing it up with evidence. You will be asked questions and you answer them by giving your opinion and backing it up with evidence. You learn skills that would stand to your in Third Level - specifically research and essay writing skills.

Not I am not saying this stuff to persuade you to opt for history - that is entirely your decision. I merely wanted to redress the balance in the light of the negative comments above. My personal advice would be to choose the subject that you enjoy most and that you fell you will do the best in.

If you want to find out more about the LC history couse you could have a look here -
http://leavingcerthistory.net/

A97

I'll keep that in mind. I do have one question though, you make the point that I need to back my points up with evidence. Would that apply to my essays in the exam? I enjoy English and I can argue my points well but I strongly dislike learning quotes off by heart. As English is mandatory, I have to do it but in the pressures of another exam, I don't want to be writing my essays only to forget the name of a source which backs my point up. That's fine for the project as I'll have the name of my sources on hand.

The two subjects (Spanish and History) have similar grade statistics at Higher Level. I'd imagine a bit of work in either subject would go a long way to high marks. I find learning (as opposed to learning "off") information to be a simple enough task and that's why I particularly do well in subjects like History. The fact that I find the course content interesting for the most part is a large bonus. I would like to learn Spanish, but I feel that the classroom isn't the place to learn a language. Look at the thousands of Irish students who never come close to fluency. There are other factors like teachers and class behaviour that have influenced my opinions towards both subjects.

The Leaving Cert History course was revamped recently. I don't know if that's relevant but perhaps Canard and his sister went through the older one instead of the current one. Maybe the course is less crowded now. I'm only speculating however.

Finally, does anybody have anything to say about the Early/Later Modern course? I'd probably prefer to learn the Early Modern course but I doubt that would be possible given the popularity of the Later Modern course. Within those two areas, do I get to choose what I study in class (minus the project) or will it be up to the teacher/democratic vote of students? Would you know which topics overlap e.g. the 1815 to 1915 content?

The green and red

you don't have to quote or name sources in history essays, just have fact to back up your argument. In my class at least, there is no individual choice. The whole class covers the same material, chosen by the teacher

Canard

Oh I just did my LC last year, so we had the new course too. There's just a lot to do. The entire subject - its course and its exam - are really tight for time, which makes it a bit unpleasant. While to an extent I agree that the classroom isn't ideal for language learning, by reading real Spanish online (Spanish wikipedia is really handy if you read about the things that come up like environmental problems etc) or listening to Spanish music, or even watch Spanish subtitled English songs (pretty much every song in existence has translations on Youtube) then it's pretty handy.

Also, while I did get 90% I don't particularly blame my teacher for the loss of the other marks - though he didn't really help, he told me my project was fine then months later said it wasn't. I think for history you need a really dedicated teacher who's always on the ball. As far as I know not a single person in our year got an A1 (even those who got A1s in every other subject), so maybe we just got a hard marker, I don't know really.

My main grievance with history is that you're expected to learn such a huge amount of information, then form opinions on the spot while bringing in multiple aspects (they can twist the questions a lot) and do that 3 times, in ~40 minutes each time. It's far from ideal. On the other hand, I didn't do Spanish but I did French, and left 80 minutes early after answering all questions because there was so little time pressure. I'm biased from my love of languages though, so yeah. :P