Who collects for access?

braceface

Hi There

Looking for an objective opinion, as its so hard to be objective when you're in the situation. My ex left over a year ago when our son was 4mths old. The agreement was he would take him for one day at the weekend, dropping & collecting from my house.

All fine until January when ex said he had no money for petrol, so I dropped and collected to his place for the month (40 mins away). In February he said he can't take his car on motorways so can we meet half way until he gets it fixed. Fine, my son needs to see his dad. But now I've found out that instead of getting his car sorted, he has been away on holiday. So I told him yesterday I will no longer meet him half way. I am managing the house, a full time job, the creche and everything else in my son's life. All his dad has to do his come and collect him and drop him home once a week.

Am I being unreasonable? He moved away, I stayed in the family home (working with bank on MARP to try to stay here) We have a court ordered maintenance agreement since September. Thanks!!

Marsden

Having to drive 40 minutes to collect his son definitely should not be a big deal. He's only bothering to see him once a week and want's you to do the dropping off and collecting, ffs. Speaking as a father, if I found meself in that situation without a working car I'd walk the distance to spend time with my son. It could be that he's trying to get under your skin, or he's just plain lazy.

I wouldn't allow him to take your son in a car that isn't 100% safe at all tbh.

But in answer to your question, no, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to collect his son as per the court agreement.

Ms. Pingui

You're not being unreasonable at all. You are doing everything else for your son, let him do the driving, it's only once a week!

Cushie Butterfield

He's playing you, or trying to control you. He has to realise that he can no longer do this. It's up to him to stick to the arrangement.

He can get a lift from a family member or friend, get a taxi or a bus.

You've been reasonable so far, but enough is enough & now it's time he got his priorities right & if his car isn't roadworthy to make alternative arrangements without relying on you to bail him out.

LittleBook

braceface wrote: »

All fine until January when ex said he had no money for petrol, so I dropped and collected to his place for the month (40 mins away). In February he said he can't take his car on motorways so can we meet half way until he gets it fixed. Fine, my DS needs to see his dad. But now I've found out that instead of getting his car sorted, he has been away on holiday. So I told him yesterday I will no longer meet him half way.

I think you've done the right thing and it's important, at this early stage, to keep things fair.

From experience I can tell you it's easy to get sucked into doing things that go against the grain for you because you're concerned about your son first and foremost, but let's assume he's just as concerned and hopefully he'll get his act together.

braceface

Thanks everyone, this has re-iterated my feelings on the whole situation. Just got a horrible text from ex:
I just want to get this sorted once and for all and stop all the dragging on. The only fair way is meet half way. Its the only reasonable way and the only person u are hurting is (Sons name) by not cooperating. I am only trying to have a relationship with my son and if u want to try and come between that then u can be the one to explain that to him when he's older

I could cry , actually already am.

Ms. Pingui

braceface wrote: »

Thanks everyone, this has re-iterated my feelings on the whole situation. Just got a horrible text from ex:
I just want to get this sorted once and for all and stop all the dragging on. The only fair way is meet half way. Its the only reasonable way and the only person u are hurting is (Sons name) by not cooperating. I am only trying to have a relationship with my son and if u want to try and come between that then u can be the one to explain that to him when he's older

I could cry , actually already am.

Ignore him, he is only trying to wind you up with that message. The only one disturbing his access is himself. He needs to organise his own transpont, he is an adult ffs!
Don't allow him to upset you.

Marsden

braceface wrote: »

I am only trying to have a relationship with my son and if u want to try and come between that then u can be the one to explain that to him when he's older.

Emotional blackmail, if he really want's to have a relationship with his son what's stopping him?

"Sorry son I know I haven't bothered to spend much time with you throughout your childhood but I just don't like getting the bus." How stupid will that sound? It's unfortunate that this has happened and I hope for everybody involved that it gets sorted.

Big Bag of Chips

Ah, the old "I'm not bothered, but it's YOUR fault".. classic line!

Ignore him.

I'm afraid, judging by how he's been carrying on so far you have a very long road ahead.

Although (and I might be clutching at straws here, to find some kind of good!) your baby is still quite young, and 'hard work' at the moment. You still have nappies, bottles, not much communication etc. For some men, this isn't really a 'fun time' with kids, and as your son gets a bit bigger and less work is needed in minding him, and interaction is easier with him you might find that he is more inclined to make the effort at that stage.

But unfortunately, if things start out bad, they usually continue.

It's difficult to stop a parent from seeing their kids if that's what they truly want. But on the other hand, you can't make someone see their kids if they're not all that bothered.

braceface

Thanks again, the support really helps. This was just the first two lines of a very long tirade about how unreasonable I was being - after I had offered to meet half way on the evening he has access, if he collects in the morning from the house.

You're right Big Bag, my son is 'hard work'! He's great craic, but a typical 18mth old - tantrum city

Big Bag of Chips

Only you know if you are being unreasonable. You'll have to take an honest look at yourself, from his point of view and see if you are.

When he takes your son, do you give him a long list of dos and don'ts?
Do you criticise things he does? Like how he changes his nappy, or feeds him, or dresses him, holds him etc?

I don't mean for you to answer those questions here, just have a think about it.

I know on my first I had 'my way' of doing things, and if things weren't done 'my way', then they were wrong! In reality they're weren't wrong.. they were just done a different way.

As a first time mother we tend to be a bit overprotective and have our set ideas. Nothing wrong with that, unless it impacts negatively on others who matter to the baby.

Now!!! In saying all that, there is an excellent chance your ex is just being a dick, and doesn't like the fact that collecting his son is interfering with his life!

The Corinthian

The whole point of an access order is that access can be facilitated in a practical and agreed and reasonable manner where everyone knows where they stand.

The access order says he has to collect and drop off his son, that's where you both stand, end of story. If he wants to change the details of that order then he should really apply to the court to do so and if the court thinks this reasonable, then they'll agree - if not, they won't.

Personally, I get the feeling that this case is a lot more complex than has been revealed; I think sticking to the order and inviting him to have it changed through the court is probably the best option.

happydayz8

Hi Braceface. I'm sorry about the nastiness and the things your ex is saying. I was in a very similar situation about 4 years ago. I was expected to take care of every thing, pay for most things but he wanted what he demanded. It was equal say with none of the responsibilities. In the end it felt like I was bullied by him as like you I always thought it would be best for my son. However, an unhappy Mum was not what my son needed for the sake of the dad getting his way when it suited him - once a week.

Here is what worked for me and maybe it'll help you.
I stopped bending to his demands. Just to clarify, I never stopped him seeing his son. I also kept all financial matters completely separate from access matters.
I would not go into any thing in which he was trying to guilt trip me. I just plain and simple stated the facts. In your case I would just keep reiterating that you are not stopping him by any means to see his son but unfortunately you will no longer be able to accommodate him in meeting half way. Try and communicate by e-mail and by text and don't answer hastily. Keep things short, unemotional and to the point. That way you will keep your cool and not let any emotions get into it. Treat it like it was business (I know its not but that's what worked for me).

For a while the nastiness continued and got even worse. I defo cried plenty but staid cool in front of him. Now we have an excellent relationship and can discuss things like we could never before, which is of much benefit to our child. He no longer treats me like a doormat. Thanks to this stable relationship I could now also focus on extending my family with my partner which would have been really hard if things where still as before.

braceface

Nope, absolutely no rules for my ex when he has our son. Never has been, I trust that he is a good dad when they are together.

Unfortunately the court maintenance agreement covers child maintenance only - not access. It was never a problem before, ex never said he had an issue coming to my home, just started making excuses about it.

That's inspirational happydayz, thanks for posting. I have learned never to reply in haste. I replied this evening - as you say, very calmly and to the point, reiterating that I will meet him half way in the evenings if he picks up in the mornings. Hopefully, hopefully we get to the point were we can have a stable relationship in time.

071_Foamer

I am only trying to have a relationship with my son and if u want to try and come between that then u can be the one to explain that to him when he's older.

If that't the sort he is, ye are probably better off without him.
Plus if his car is not safe enough for the motorway, then it's not safe enough for your child full stop. He is being reckless and endangering your son's life by bringing him in an uvsafe vehicle.
And I call bullsh!t on the petrol money and broken car thing - it's probably just an excuse to try and get you to do the driving. Ask him to cut back on his social drinking or cigarettes or whatever and put that money towards the car and petrol. If he refuses, well that just means that he puts his drink sessions with his buddies or whatever ahead of his son. Says it all really.

The deal was that he collects and drops off. You need to remind him of the original deal and tell him he needs to get his act together and get with the program.

Don't yield to any of his rouses. They are all just attempts at manipulating you. I have seen this happen before. What a pathetic person that it is that uses a child as a pawn.

The Corinthian

071_Foamer wrote: »

If that't the sort he is, ye are probably better off without him.

Indeed, she might be.

Plus if his car is not safe enough for the motorway, then it's not safe enough for your child full stop. He is being reckless and endangering your son's life by bringing him in an uvsafe vehicle.

Well given it's his responsibility to organize transport and this is his car, would you suggest instead he hires one? Maybe a limo?

071_Foamer

The Corinthian wrote: »

Indeed, she might be.

Well given it's his responsibility to organize transport and this is his car, would you suggest instead he hires one? Maybe a limo?

Yes, it is HIS responsibility to organise transport. That was the original deal. He needs to do just that, whether it means fixing the car, replacing it, getting a loan of a car or hiring one.
Using an unroadworthy car is not only endangering the childs life but is also illegal.
As I said, he needs to honour the agreement and adjust his finances to do so - hence my suggestion that he cut back on the grog or whatever - not giving a stream of excuses and complaints at every turn.

Look, in my experience deserting fathers want access to the children not so much for the child's sake but moreso to get the mother to jump through hoops in some sort of petty revenge mission.

The Corinthian

071_Foamer wrote: »

hence my suggestion that he cut back on the grog or whatever

Or food or rent or health care. But, we don't know what his financial situation is, so we can't really say.

Look, in my experience deserting fathers want access to the children not so much for the child's sake but moreso to get the mother to jump through hoops in some sort of petty revenge mission.

In your experience. There's a lot of experiences out there that contradict yours and in the OP's case we, again, really don't know what the full story is and chances are it's probably far more complex than that.

Edit: Actually, where does the OP say he's a 'deserting father' - where your 'experience' to even potentially apply?

And, by-the-by, when you wrote that the OP is probably better off without him, I didn't get the impression that it was the child's sake you were talking about.

071_Foamer

The Corinthian wrote: »

Or food or rent or health care. But, we don't know what his financial situation is, so we can't really say.

In your experience. There's a lot of experiences out there that contradict yours and in the OP's case we, again, really don't know what the full story is and chances are it's probably far more complex than that.

And, by-the-by, when you wrote that the OP is probably better off without him, I didn't get the impression that it was the child's sake you were talking about.

It was clear enough in my original quote that he was using the child as a tool to manipulate the mother. What kind of father does that? A good father? I doubt it to be honest.
If he was genuine he would make the effort to arrange transport. All he has done is give excuses.
He mentioned meeting half way - in another few weeks it will be 3/4 way and then probably some other excuse to get her to do all the driving. I've seen it all before.

rambutman

an access order in the family court will specify where the child(ren) is to be picked up or not.

rambutman

The Corinthian wrote: »

Or food or rent or health care. But, we don't know what his financial situation is, so we can't really say.

In your experience. There's a lot of experiences out there that contradict yours and in the OP's case we, again, really don't know what the full story is and chances are it's probably far more complex than that.

Edit: Actually, where does the OP say he's a 'deserting father' - where your 'experience' to even potentially apply?

And, by-the-by, when you wrote that the OP is probably better off without him, I didn't get the impression that it was the child's sake you were talking about.

i'll second this

Ya can't tar one group or another - "deserting fathers"

There's a whole raft of people (regardless of sex) who will use their children as a pawn to get what they want.

The Corinthian

071_Foamer wrote: »

It was clear enough in my original quote that he was using the child as a tool to manipulate the mother. What kind of father does that? A good father? I doubt it to be honest.

We have only one side of the story here and he could be attempting to manipulate the mother. And she could be playing the same game. And both may be even unaware they are.

And there are other details we are unaware of; what are his finances, for example?

This is why most has suggested they go back to the court and let them decide after hearing both out as it not only cannot be done here, but we she to follow advice based upon some posters personal experiences, that may not reflect her own situation at all, then she's not going to get very good advice.

I've seen it all before.

And I've seen the opposite; manipulative mothers who are bitter that whatever relationship they had didn't work out, declare themselves and the child a 'package deal' and choose to manipulate and blackmail the father in some petty revenge game.

However it is foolish to assume that this is like either experience; the only evidence that it may be would simply be based upon our own projection, not the facts.

Sooner or later we all have to get past the anger of our 'experiences', otherwise it will control us and cause us to drag everyone else around us down.

wmpdd3

After 14 months things are still quite raw and the relationship with the other parent comes up every weekend before the actual visiting. It's hard to trust someone to co-parent with.


This will calm down, but it might take another few years! It will come to the point that its just 'that bloke'. It will come to the point that you leave reading the texts till after your tea rather than sitting down and reading them and re reading them over and over again, trying to decipher some hidden meaning.

If you do go to court access will be set in stone and usually it is fair, whether it means public transport or you drop baby and he drops him back.

Bear in mind as you are working you may not get FLAC so maybe a letter appealing to his better judgement might work.

S28382

I drive half an hour(half hour back again) to collect my boys 4 times a week, i think its only right that your ex should step up and do his bit.

braceface

Hi Everyone
Thanks for all of the opinions, I do agree that personal experience clouds opinion and that is one of the reasons I came to look for an objective viewpoint.

My son's father has not turned up for the last two weeks, no correspondence at all. I am working this weekend, which is near his home, so I have offered drop & collect so they can spend time together while I am in work (full day). I am away next weekend so he will need to drop / collect to my mam's, but we have not discussed this yet. This was not a problem in the past but who knows now?

His finances are tight, but so are mine. I don't expect him to hire a limo, but there is a good bus service. I really really want to avoid court, not a pleasant experience for anyone

Thanks again, BF

wmpdd3

To be honest, I think its better to get court over with as soon as possible. It gives both sides an idea of boundaries. There's no point in worrying over this point for the next 12 months if 2 solicitor's letters can sort it out.

darkhorse

braceface wrote: »

Hi There

Looking for an objective opinion, as its so hard to be objective when you're in the situation. My ex left over a year ago when our son was 4mths old. The agreement was he would take him for one day at the weekend, dropping & collecting from my house.

All fine until January when ex said he had no money for petrol, so I dropped and collected to his place for the month (40 mins away). In February he said he can't take his car on motorways so can we meet half way until he gets it fixed. Fine, my son needs to see his dad. But now I've found out that instead of getting his car sorted, he has been away on holiday. So I told him yesterday I will no longer meet him half way. I am managing the house, a full time job, the creche and everything else in my son's life. All his dad has to do his come and collect him and drop him home once a week.

Am I being unreasonable? He moved away, I stayed in the family home (working with bank on MARP to try to stay here) We have a court ordered maintenance agreement since September. Thanks!!

No, you are not being unreasonable. Speaking from my own point of view, I would walk to the ends of the earth to see my child, as I am sure the majority of men would. Your ex is an A**hole. Do not pamper him, unless, of course you think it is the right thing to do. I can relate, because my daughter was in the same situation as you, several years ago, where she gave her child's father every chance, who was also an A**hole btw. No, I really think that you went above and beyond the call of duty. Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

darkhorse

braceface wrote: »

Thanks everyone, this has re-iterated my feelings on the whole situation. Just got a horrible text from ex:
I just want to get this sorted once and for all and stop all the dragging on. The only fair way is meet half way. Its the only reasonable way and the only person u are hurting is (Sons name) by not cooperating. I am only trying to have a relationship with my son and if u want to try and come between that then u can be the one to explain that to him when he's older

I could cry , actually already am.

That's exactly how my grandson's father played my daughter, the bo*ox. You've nothing to feel bad about, this guy's not worth your tears. The reason I bolded them is that they are the very same words the that this guy used(my daughter recorded them, along with a lot of other conversations, which are very nasty).

wolfpawnat

With my parents, it was an agreed place half way, then as my father moved further away, it remained at that location, much to his annoyance. But like with you, it was legally arranged. Stick to the arrangement in place. Clearly he does not have his priorities straight. Anyone can have car trouble and it would be wrong for the other party to not facilitate them while the car was being sorted, but your ex is just taking the píss!