Do the Spanish speak more quickly than others?

dohouch

I've heard this so often and wonder can somebody make a scientific contribution on the topic, as in comparative studies, whatever.

My thoughts on the matter are:
1, Because of it's popularity as a holiday destination many people with no previous language learning experience try to learn it and have unexpected problems and put it down to the Spanish speaking quickly.

2, Maybe because of the vowel consonant distribution in the language there are more syllables needed to get the same message across. This could actually be measured/counted, don't feel like doing that just now, but this might give a scientific basis for the prejudice that Spanish is spoken more quickly than other languages. I imagine Italian would have a similar vowel consonant distribution, but without the hard guttural sounds of Castillian which I think give it, Castillian, a bit of a rat-tat-tat rhythm.

3. Many South-Americans do seem to speak slower, without the rat-tat-tat of Castillian.

What do you think? OR maybe you know something

(Been absorbing Castillian for many years, bit of slow learner myself!)

Skerries

it's louder anyway

deirdremf

dohouch wrote: »

I've heard this so often and wonder can somebody make a scientific contribution on the topic, as in comparative studies, whatever.

My thoughts on the matter are:
1, Because of it's popularity as a holiday destination many people with no previous language learning experience try to learn it and have unexpected problems and put it down to the Spanish speaking quickly.

It's a common problem that native speakers speak too fast for a learner. But you speak too fast for them in your own language, too.

2, Maybe because of the vowel consonant distribution in the language there are more syllables needed to get the same message across. This could actually be measured/counted, don't feel like doing that just now, but this might give a scientific basis for the prejudice that Spanish is spoken more quickly than other languages. I imagine Italian would have a similar vowel consonant distribution, but without the hard guttural sounds of Castillian which I think give it, Castillian, a bit of a rat-tat-tat rhythm.

Interesting, but I don't get why this would have anything to do with the speed of speech?

3. Many South-Americans do seem to speak slower, without the rat-tat-tat of Castillian.

Yes they do, as do North Americans when they speak English. I think someone said the same about Brazilians, too.

Barna77

Yes

Skerries wrote: »

it's louder anyway

Italian is way louder

brianblaze

Barna77 wrote: »

Yes

Italian is way louder

Have you been on Dublin Bus?

Barna77

brianblaze wrote: »

Have you been on Dublin Bus?

And anywhere come the summer... :mad: But still, Italians are louder, and slow walkers... :mad:

dohouch

Originally Posted by dohouch 2, Maybe because of the vowel consonant distribution in the language there are more syllables needed to get the same message across. This could actually be measured/counted, don't feel like doing that just now, but this might give a scientific basis for the prejudice that Spanish is spoken more quickly than other languages. I imagine Italian would have a similar vowel consonant distribution, but without the hard guttural sounds of Castillian which I think give it, Castillian, a bit of a rat-tat-tat rhythm.

deirdremf wrote: »

Interesting, but I don't get why this would have anything to do with the speed of speech?

Am listening to Spanish Radio at the moment, and they all seem relatively restrained, keeping to the speed limit. But earlier today I was tempted to record something else I was listening to on another Spanish station. And though my brain couldn't keep up, I had the feeling that every syllable was being clearly pronounced. It seems to me as if Spaniards have to get through more short syllables per sentence spoken and because of this frequency and hardness of pronunciation in Castillian, it can seem to be a bit machine-gun like. rat-tat-tat.
A bit vague I know.

I think it is all probably more down to

1, Because of it's popularity as a holiday destination many people with no previous language learning experience try to learn it and have unexpected problems and put it down to the Spanish speaking quickly.

P.S. I might try to record that speed merchant I was listening to earlier today ( maybe a Spanish version of Dave Fanning, it was also on a music station, RNE3.)

Gosub

I can understand Spanish spoken by, for example, a middle class Spaniard. But when I hear a working class Andalucian speaking, I can't even pick out the odd word. It's just a long gutteral noise.

Madrileños (Madrid dwellers) are easier to understand. I guess it's a bit like regional accents in Ireland. Cork people can be hard to understand, and seem to be very fast speakers.

As an aside, my Spanish teacher once told me that a Spanish language college graduate will normally have reached the fluency of a seven year old Spaniard. That's when I gave up trying to learn, after 2 years.

dohouch

Gosub wrote: »

As an aside, my Spanish teacher once told me that a Spanish language college graduate will normally have reached the fluency of a seven year old Spaniard. That's when I gave up trying to learn, after 2 years.

Ah don't give up, I've been learning it off and on for 20 years. Probably a lot more off than on. Motivation is low,sort of like desert after a big meal, it looks good but your appetite is gone. And not becoming over familiar with my hosts, I go to Spain often, might make for a longer romantic attachment to the people and place,- and them to me.:p But their are huge variations in the ease with which I can understand different people.
But there is still a common belief, even know it from people who speak several other languages, that the Spanish speak quickly.

EDIT: added a sample:Spanish version of Dave Fanning

Barna77

That was pretty fast, but more or less normal to music radio stations. Try a breakfast show on other stations and it should be slower.

Just Like Heaven

Gosub wrote: »

As an aside, my Spanish teacher once told me that a Spanish language college graduate will normally have reached the fluency of a seven year old Spaniard. That's when I gave up trying to learn, after 2 years.

I believe that, but if it's spoken fluency in any language you're after a third level course is probably the slowest way of going about it. Doesn't really mean fluency in Spanish is particularly difficult to obtain, in comparison to other languages at least.

dohouch

fewtinsoffroth wrote: »

Doesn't really mean fluency in Spanish is particularly difficult to obtain, in comparison to other languages at least.

Often listen into the conversational exchanges between 6 & 7 year old kids and their parents on the street, and think to myself it can't be that difficult.:mad:

I think as a regular visitor to the country, I haven't been taking Spanish too seriously as a language.:cool: IMHO I find the Spanish are eager to understand what your are on about ( a trait not generally attributed to their their French neighbours), and also the similarities with many English words and also my knowledge of French mean that I've taken the lazy option up to now. Just toss a string of grammatically chaotic words, badly pronounced , at the patient Spaniard (find most are) and let them figure it out.

Now trying to change my tack, not easy, and set higher grammatical standards. Might even get to recording myself and listening back to see if my pronunciation isn't too awful.

Just Like Heaven

Not quite the same but Japanese people speak quite quickly as well, I took audio books (at first) then podcasts/interviews I could comprehend and ran them through audacity and increased the tempo by 10%, listened again and again and again, then upped the tempo again.

I'm still taking baby steps in my Spanish, but it's what I plan to do again. Could be worth a try.

dohouch

fewtinsoffroth wrote: »

ran them through audacity and increased the tempo by 10%, listened again and again and again, then upped the tempo again.

I'm still taking baby steps in my Spanish, but it's what I plan to do again. Could be worth a try.

Never considered anything like altering the tempo. Back 20 years ago when I wanted to resurrect my Irish, I took to recording the News on Radio na Gaelteachta, (using cassette tape) I found at first I would have to listen several times before I could even go to the dictionary to look up the word, however I would say after a month I was able to get most words on first listen. I suppose that is referred to as "getting the ear in"

Up to now when listening to Spanish it has only been to get the gist of the content or follow the story. Now the challenge is to to "get the ear in" to notice grammatical construction, verb tense, word order et al.

Unfortunately the Spanish, and maybe no other country has the equivalent of BBC Radio 4, or BBC Radio 4 Extra. and the vocabulary of current affairs on radio is limited, polysyllabic jargon and shares little with conversational usage.

deirdremf

dohouch wrote: »

Ah don't give up, I've been learning it off and on for 20 years. Probably a lot more off than on. Motivation is low,sort of like desert after a big meal, it looks good but your appetite is gone. And not becoming over familiar with my hosts, I go to Spain often, might make for a longer romantic attachment to the people and place,- and them to me.:p But their are huge variations in the ease with which I can understand different people.
But there is still a common belief, even know it from people who speak several other languages, that the Spanish speak quickly.

EDIT: added a sample:Spanish version of Dave Fanning

I had a listen, and yes, it is fast, but is he actually saying anything? I mean is there a message of any sort there? It sounds like filler to me, waffle, nothing more. At best slagging off someone else, maybe the musician in the beginning of the piece?


Oh, and by the way, regarding quick speech, you might be interested to know that Irish people (speaking English) are renowned for the speed of their speech. I often think that it might have something to do with the way that we pronounce most unstressed syllables as "uh", so people lose lots of vowel markers that americans, english and australians have in their speech.

dohouch

deirdremf wrote: »

I had a listen, and yes, it is fast, but is he actually saying anything?

Not especially. On Spanish national radio they do a per region round-up of news and weather every morning, delivered by a different correspondent for each region. Will record that soon and put it up. That's really the gold medal event in speed delivery.

deirdremf wrote: »

Oh, and by the way, regarding quick speech, you might be interested to know that Irish people (speaking English) are renowned for the speed of their speech. I often think that it might have something to do with the way that we pronounce most unstressed syllables as "uh", so people lose lots of vowel markers that americans, english and australians have in their speech.

I've always recommended the U.S.A. to people as the place to go to learn spoken English. There are there regional exceptions, but Yanks speak slower and enunciate better than the majority of the inhabitants of the British Isles.


Sound File: How I want the Spanish to speak:rolleyes:

dasiber

Hi Dohouch,

I'm Spanish, and it's true that Spanish is spoken faster than other languages (I 'can' speak Italian, French and English).

We have different accents and different speeds depending on the region, for example Andalusian speak slower. I have a friend from Cadiz (Andalucia) who could not understand another friend from Albacete (Castilla La Mancha) because he spoke too fast. On the other hand, Andalucia has a strong accent that sometimes can be difficult to be understood even for other Spaniards.

To start I would not recommend the radio, they speak standard Spanish but they talk faster than you would hear in a normal conversation. Try first with Disney films, and audio books (it's what I do when I start to learn a new foreign language).

The second audio is really slow, he is reading prose, but the way is written is almost poetry (it's really beautiful

On the other hand, Spanish is a language easy to understand so even if you do mistakes, or your speed is slow, we will understand you so don't give up.

I don't agree with the explanation about more syllables, plainly because Italian and French has more or less the same syllables and they are spoken slower. In my own opinion, the reason why we can speak so fast is that we only have 5 vowels sounds, so it doesn't matter how do you pronounce that sound or how long it is, it will always be understood.

I hope this help

jaydoxx

I know there is some linguistic mumbo jumbo I once read that probably explains why people think certain languages are spoken faster. It was something to do with the syllabic efficiency of a language, i.e. that the more meaning that could be conveyed in a single syllable is greater in languages and the speaker have to exert themselves less than say in a language where words have many more syllables to convey the same meaning. Obviously, if it takes twice as long to ask someone how their day has been compared to another language, it'll probably speed up to not feel like so drawn out a sentence. I dunno, that's what I can recall anyway.

HalloweenJack

Maybe I've been living in Spain too long but I've definitely heard people speaking faster than that radio guy.

I've lived in Spain for a bit and I find Spanish kids are the fastest and most difficult to understand. I live in Andalucia and the accent is a shock, as my previous stay in Spain was in Madrid, but once I got to terms with it, I don't find it to be too fast.

I'd put the "faster" theory down to people not speaking the language. The poster above is the first Spaniard I've heard to say they speak faster than other languages. Every language I've no idea of sounds ridiculously fast to me and I think it's the same for everyone out there.

dohouch

jaydoxx wrote: »

something to do with the syllabic efficiency of a language,

Don't know whether or not there is something to that "syllabic efficiency" but always enjoy the acquisition of some new linguistic jargon.

dasiber

jaydoxx wrote: »

syllabic efficiency of a language...

I don´t doubt that there is some truth in this but it doesn't explain why Spanish speak faster than mexicans or why Irish speak english faster than north americans

HalloweenJack

My guess would be it's to do with the mixing of various different language speakers (speakers of the indigenous languages in those places and then the numerous immigrants) which lead to all speakers speaking the common languages (which would not necessarily be their first language) at a slower pace.

But that's all a guess.

dohouch

dasiber wrote: »

I don´t doubt that there is some truth in this but it doesn't explain why Spanish speak faster than mexicans or why Irish speak english faster than north americans

I agree that the speed with which a particular language is spoken is indeed interesting, i.e. English in Ireland as against English in North America.

Been doing a bit of testing recently. If you can watch "Euronews" and have a remote control that switches easily from one language to another. I have such a one, and with "Spanish" and "Italian" side by side it is easy to compare.
To me it seems the Italians seem to draw out their vowels to sound longer and inflict a lesser avalanche of syllables, in the same time-span than Spanish speakers.

Agus

Spanish really is spoken faster than English. It's to do with a difference in the amount of information that is conveyed by a given number of syllables and speeding up in order that it doesn't take longer to communicate the message.

Here's an article about a study on this. They found Spanish had a syllable-per-second velocity of 7.82 compared to the English 6.19.

http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2091477,00.html

deirdremf

Agus wrote: »

Spanish really is spoken faster than English. It's to do with a difference in the amount of information that is conveyed by a given number of syllables and speeding up in order that it doesn't take longer to communicate the message.

Here's an article about a study on this. They found Spanish had a syllable-per-second velocity of 7.82 compared to the English 6.19.

http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2091477,00.html

Interesting article.
Of course, another difference is that English has short and long vowels (and therefore syllables), as does Irish, and German, while French and Spanish don't. Which doesn't mean that all syllables are the same length in French and Spanish, but not so different. I wonder what effect this has on the speed of speech?

dohouch

Agus wrote: »

They found Spanish had a syllable-per-second velocity of 7.82 compared to the English 6.19.

http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2091477,00.html

I love it!:D What a fellow can learn on Boards. Haven't a head for reading that article just now.

Just back from Spain and listening to a radio programme there, about the difficulty the Spanish have in mastering English, it was stated that Spanish has 5 vowel sounds and English 12. I think because of this frequency of similar sounds, the English speaker has to "FILTER" more quickly than if he were exposed to a greater variety of sounds. It's not easier or harder, just a different "brain demand" than say German which probably has a closer syllable structure to English.

Spanish is a syllable-timed language, which is why it sounds faster. English is a stress-timed language - we tend to stress key words which makes the important bits easier to pick out and understand. Spanish speakers stress all the words equally.

If you imagine an English speaker saying

I'm going to the supermarket to buy apples

You will hear 'supermarket' and 'apples' being stressed.

A Spanish speaker saying

Voy al supermercado para comprar manzanas

All the words are equally stressed, making it difficult for foreigners to decide what the key words are.

dohouch

Mariah Deep Teflon wrote: »

Spanish is a syllable-timed language, which is why it sounds faster. English is a stress-timed language - we tend to stress key words which makes the important bits easier to pick out and understand. Spanish speakers stress all the words equally.

All the words are equally stressed, making it difficult for foreigners to decide what the key words are.

Thanks, that makes sense to me. :cool: On my last visit to Spain, I asked a Romanian girl, (her English was good) if she thought the Spanish spoke quickly and she thought they did.

Will continue on further visits to Spain to research the views of speakers of other Latin languages with regard to their perception of the speed of native Spanish speakers.

Reyman

Great thread alogether! You´ve solved all my problems trying to learn Spanish (well 15% of them anyway)

dohouch

More on this dastardly Spanish plot to machine-gun our ears with unending salvoes of syllables

Enlace or encadenamiento


is the phenomenon in Spanish whereby each word seems to run into the next, as if there are no boundaries between them. In fact, this is exactly the case: there are no phonetic boundaries in Spanish, and words do run together, in three different ways.

davwain

I don't know, but I find Spanish easier to understand than most others (aside from my mother tongue, English). That's because of my intermediate-level ability to understand that language.

Calina

Yes. There is evidence that Spanish has a higher rate of syllables spoken per second.

Very high level overview here: http://blog.dictionary.com/fastlanguage/

dogcat

I know several people who are native in the Spanish language and when they are speaking Espanol they almost always speak faster than people do in the English language. However, the words in the Spanish language may just be shorter so it sounds like they are speaking faster?

Barna77

I definitely speak very fast in English...

davwain

deirdremf wrote: »

I had a listen, and yes, it is fast, but is he actually saying anything? I mean is there a message of any sort there? It sounds like filler to me, waffle, nothing more. At best slagging off someone else, maybe the musician in the beginning of the piece?


Oh, and by the way, regarding quick speech, you might be interested to know that Irish people (speaking English) are renowned for the speed of their speech. I often think that it might have something to do with the way that we pronounce most unstressed syllables as "uh", so people lose lots of vowel markers that americans, english and australians have in their speech.

I have heard people who speak Russian speak fast e.g. as in the following videos:
- Avigdor Lieberman interview part 1 - RTVI exclusive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oqOAzeMptQ
- LifeNews interview of Inna Duritskaya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6l1qnNpmrM

dohouch

Just back from Colombia, and carrying on my research, I asked several Colombians if they had sat in on conversations where every one was from Spain and if the thought they spoke fast. For Colombians, the Spanish do speak quickly.

But on my return to Ireland and turning my tv to the few Spanish channels I have, 24 Horas, TVE International, I was immediately struck by the speed of delivery of the News reports, and the rat-tat-tat of Spanish as spoken in Spain,( it is nearly an assault on my tender hearing! ) in Colombia the language is much softer. Prefer the Colombian version. Look for RCN (Radio Colombia Nacional ) on net and listen.

P.S. Many Colombians think the Spanish are coarse, swear too much
.

Nicke011

I think the better question will be something like this: Are the people speaking Spanish able to transmit more information in a certain amount of time than people speaking English?

Answer to your question is yes, Spanish seems to be "faster" language because it has more syllables spoken per minute, than English.
However, the answer to the question is above is no, each Spanish syllable contains less information than each English syllable.


Therefore Spanish may seem faster, but the information transmitted per minute is almost identical.

English, with a high information density of .91, was spoken at an average rate of 6.19 syllables per second.
Spanish, with a low-density .63, ripped along at a syllable-per-second velocity of 7.82. - according to Time.com

So if you do the maths:
English 6.19*60 = 371.4 spm
371.4*0.91 ~ 340 ipm
Spanish 7.82*60 = 469.2
469.2*0.63 ~ 300 ipm

Read more here.

davwain

Nicke011 wrote: »

I think the better question will be something like this: Are the people speaking Spanish able to transmit more information in a certain amount of time than people speaking English?

Answer to your question is yes, Spanish seems to be "faster" language because it has more syllables spoken per minute, than English.
However, the answer to the question is above is no, each Spanish syllable contains less information than each English syllable.


Therefore Spanish may seem faster, but the information transmitted per minute is almost identical.

English, with a high information density of .91, was spoken at an average rate of 6.19 syllables per second.
Spanish, with a low-density .63, ripped along at a syllable-per-second velocity of 7.82. - according to Time.com

So if you do the maths:
English 6.19*60 = 371.4 spm
371.4*0.91 ~ 340 ipm
Spanish 7.82*60 = 469.2
469.2*0.63 ~ 300 ipm

Read more here.

Interesting comparison.