British state collusion in murder

Neutronale

On UTV Insight now...relatives are looking for inquiries into their loved-ones murder by British agents.

One agent (Mark Haddock) got a wage rise after he had committed his first murder.

In a UTV Insight special, Live and Let Die, two Belfast families are demanding that the State owns up to collusion and prosecutes informers who have literally been allowed to get away with murder.

http://www.u.tv/News/Insight-Families-want-collusion-answers/5e54b4b0-5ba4-47d1-9384-2e4d8493360a

belcampprisoner

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20003541



http://elblogador.blogspot.com/2007/01/ruc-uvf-collusionthe-truth-exposed.html

Neutronale

5 of those involved in the Pat Finucane murder were British agents...

iopener

there will never be a full open inquiry in to any of these murder's.there's dirt on everyone in power positions in the north, there's been long held rumours that mcguiness and adams are/were agents for the british. from the british pov they wanted to escalate the conflict with targeted assissinations particulary of known republicans people deemed could cause problems to the adams/mcguiness bomb/ballot box route to peace even if mcguiness and adams aren't this causes suspicion within republican circles and splits into different camps pro politics and pro physical force that go on to hitlists for scap or loyalist .this policy goes to the top cabinate level of the british goverment 1970/80/90/00's and it's security services that's where the inquiryies should begin but it will never happen.those people will never see the inside of a court room.

tac foley

iopener wrote: »

there's been long held rumours that mcguiness and adams are/were agents for the british.

What you are suggesting is that Mr McGuiness, while leading the PIRA bombing campaign in Derry, was also an agent of the British government, have I got that right?

And Mr Adams was also, as the President of Sinn Fein, actually a British agent?

Hmmm. Needs some taking in, that.

A link, please, to these rather odd 'rumours'.

tac

Neutronale

tac foley wrote: »

What you are suggesting is that Mr McGuiness, while leading the PIRA bombing campaign in Derry, was also an agent of the British government, have I got that right?

And Mr Adams was also, as the President of Sinn Fein, actually a British agent?

Hmmm. Needs some taking in, that.

A link, please, to these rather odd 'rumours'.

tac

Makes very little sense, it means the British were fighting themselves for 30 years :rolleyes:

iopener

mcguiness code name was j118, i read a book years ago about the dirty war, a british officer boasted off having several high ranking IRA/sinn fein members, he even mention the code name stakeknife aka scappaticci. i said this to a guy (a sinner) in work and he told me it's all british mindgames about 2 years later scappaticci is outed as stakeknife. what about denis donalson another sinn fein high ranking member he was a sb agent, you have to ask yourself the if adams/mcguiness didn't know about the amount of touts amongest themselves they must have been grossly incompent, the other side of that was they were fully aware of informers but we're prepared to go along with this because they wanted hardliners removed from the equation because they were in the process of going down the ballotbox/armalite route. the big picture in this is certain republicans and the british state realised they have come to a military stalement, the only solution was a political one. that's why adams were involved with the british, it was a dirty war one that was becoming more vicous. this is just my opinion after doing a bit of reading, we will never know what really went on, but i recommend the book by ed moloney voices from the grave indeed anything by moloney. top class writer on a very serious matter. indeed i heard ed moloney on morning ireland talking about the pat finucane murder, he was given infomation from a trusted loyalist called tommy little that the ruc sb wanted 3 well known catholic silictors killed, he told 1 of these silictors a personnel friend about the threaths who contacted charlie haughey. haughey contacted tom king and security was beefed up on this silicitor house. this happened pre christmas 1988, 3 months later pat finucane is killed.ed moloney wasn't questioned by judge di silva inquiry. he said haughey went into a rage because tom king had given his word security would be taken care of.finucane murder was probably the most ovious case state collusion in murder.

Neutronale

iopener wrote: »

mcguiness code name was j118, i read a book years ago about the dirty war, a british officer boasted off having several high ranking IRA/sinn fein members, he even mention the code name stakeknife aka scappaticci. i said this to a guy (a sinner) in work and he told me it's all british mindgames about 2 years later scappaticci is outed as stakeknife. what about denis donalson another sinn fein high ranking member he was a sb agent, you have to ask yourself the if adams/mcguiness didn't know about the amount of touts amongest themselves they must have been grossly incompent, the other side of that was they were fully aware of informers but we're prepared to go along with this because they wanted hardliners removed from the equation because they were in the process of going down the ballotbox/armalite route. the big picture in this is certain republicans and the british state realised they have come to a military stalement, the only solution was a political one. that's why adams were involved with the british, it was a dirty war one that was becoming more vicous. this is just my opinion after doing a bit of reading, we will never know what really went on, but i recommend the book by ed moloney voices from the grave indeed anything by moloney. top class writer on a very serious matter. indeed i heard ed moloney on morning ireland talking about the pat finucane murder, he was given infomation from a trusted loyalist called tommy little that the ruc sb wanted 3 well known catholic silictors killed, he told 1 of these silictors a personnel friend about the threaths who contacted charlie haughey. haughey contacted tom king and security was beefed up on this silicitor house. this happened pre christmas 1988, 3 months later pat finucane is killed.ed moloney wasn't questioned by judge di silva inquiry. he said haughey went into a rage because tom king had given his word security would be taken care of.finucane murder was probably the most ovious case state collusion in murder.

Well of course paper doesnt refuse ink, so that means nothing really.

Naturally their enemies will use all sorts of nonsense like this to undermine them and the peace process.

Neutronale

Documentary: Collusion, from PressTV

http://youtu.be/swHhb3dF86s

iopener

just starting to read a book on this subject called The Committee by Sean Mcphilemy, my mrs'es father gave it to me she bought it for him serveral years ago in the states, he told me that this book has a injunction on it in uk. it names several people allegedly involved in a loyalist committee involved with security forces to collued in the target assinations of known republicans.i'll read it and give a review.

eire4

iopener wrote: »

just starting to read a book on this subject called The Committee by Sean Mcphilemy, my mrs'es father gave it to me she bought it for him serveral years ago in the states, he told me that this book has a injunction on it in uk. it names several people allegedly involved in a loyalist committee involved with security forces to collued in the target assinations of known republicans.i'll read it and give a review.

I have read that book as well and would highly recommend it. For a book that Trimble and many in the English government claim is false they sure are going out of there way to try and put a lid on it and the channel 4 documentary from 1991.
Tim Pat Coogan's The Troubles while a more genral overview of the period does discuss extensively British collusion with loyalist terrorists also. Or as the author puts it as British intelligence using loyalist terrorists as surrogates so there hands don't get dirty so to speak.

Stovepipe

Collusion (alleged or otherwise) works both ways. The Irish legal system and various Governments did not cover themselves in glory when it came to stopping IRA terrorists from freely moving around Ireland and to/from NI. Collusion by neglect or turning a blind eye is still collusion. Southern hands are not squeaky clean on this issue.

regards
Stovepipe

eire4

Stovepipe wrote: »

Collusion (alleged or otherwise) works both ways. The Irish legal system and various Governments did not cover themselves in glory when it came to stopping IRA terrorists from freely moving around Ireland and to/from NI. Collusion by neglect or turning a blind eye is still collusion. Southern hands are not squeaky clean on this issue.

regards



Stovepipe

To try and suggest the old cliche of they were as bad as each other simply does not wash in this instance. The British government for years engaged in a dirty war that involved using Loyalist terrorists as surrogates as well as taking an active part themselves via agents such as Brian Nelson, Robert Nairac.

Jawgap

eire4 wrote: »

To try and suggest the old cliche of they were as bad as each other simply does not wash in this instance. The British government for years engaged in a dirty war that involved using Loyalist terrorists as surrogates as well as taking an active part themselves via agents such as Brian Nelson, Robert Nairac.

Your first sentence seems to suggest that you accept that both states went beyond what was acceptable they were both 'bad' - maybe the Brits were 'worse' in the sense they went 'further' than the various Irish administrations, but it still doesn't change the fact that a significant number of our state institutions colluded at least passively with the IRA.

Something that's always fascinated me is the notion that the various terrorist groups (and their apologists) want the law to apply to everyone except them - a bit like showing up for a hurling match but expecting the opposition to let you play with 22 men, a smaller goal and no referee, and then complaining when they won't.

eire4

Jawgap wrote: »

Your first sentence seems to suggest that you accept that both states went beyond what was acceptable they were both 'bad' - maybe the Brits were 'worse' in the sense they went 'further' than the various Irish administrations, but it still doesn't change the fact that a significant number of our state institutions colluded at least passively with the IRA.

Something that's always fascinated me is the notion that the various terrorist groups (and their apologists) want the law to apply to everyone except them - a bit like showing up for a hurling match but expecting the opposition to let you play with 22 men, a smaller goal and no referee, and then complaining when they won't.

There is no maybe's about the British collusion with and use of loyalist terrorists as surrogates and that they were by far the biggest offender so to speak when compared to all the other parties involved.

In terms of law I think you actually have to have a real law and order system before you can expect acceptance rather then a law and order system which was largely used by the British as a weapon against the Nationalists as was the case here.

As for you little apologists dig it really serves no purpose and lowers the tone of your post.

Klunk001

I have just finished reading Ann Cadwallader's Leathal Allies. Looks to have been well researched inc using info from the HET. I have to say I found it shocking and toatally depressing.

eire4

Klunk001 wrote: »

I have just finished reading Ann Cadwallader's Leathal Allies. Looks to have been well researched inc using info from the HET. I have to say I found it shocking and toatally depressing.

Thanks for that. Looks interesting. I will have to get a copy and read it myself.