Treason?

Kiwi in IE

Now I am no legal expert, as this thread might make apparent, but another (seemingly unsubstantiated) thread in Afterhours got me thinking.

If a TD, Minister or any other high ranking public servant can be proved to be acting according to the demands of a foreign state (namely Vatican), when conducting the business of this State, and when said persons influence actually or potentially creates a result that is in conflict with the best interests of this State (or against the directive of the Irish people, as given via referendum), does this qualify as treason?

I realise it would be very difficult to prove motivations beyond a reasonable doubt, so I guess my question is hypothetical, presuming it could be proved.

My intention is not to start another abortion thread. I am wondering if this could apply to many issues of personal freedom in a liberal society, Equal Marriage, Euthanasia, Public Education, even the constitution. Is the current constitution unduly influenced by a foreign state?

Are the Vatican State and RCC considered one entity? If so, I see no good reason why this is not applicable (although there may well be many good reasons I am unaware of).

Turtwig

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Now I am no legal expert, as this thread might make apparent, but another (seemingly unsubstantiated) thread in Afterhours got me thinking.

If a TD, Minister or any other high ranking public servant can be proved to be acting according to the demands of a foreign state (namely Vatican), when conducting the business of this State, and when said persons influence actually or potentially creates a result that is in conflict with the best interests of this State (or against the directive of the Irish people, as given via referendum), does this qualify as treason?

I realise it would be very difficult to prove motivations beyond a reasonable doubt, so I guess my question is hypothetical, presuming it could be proved.

My intention is not to start another abortion thread. I am wondering if this could apply to many issues of personal freedom in a liberal society, Equal Marriage, Euthanasia, Public Education, even the constitution. Is the current constitution unduly influenced by a foreign state?

Are the Vatican State and RCC considered one entity? If so, I see no good reason why this is not applicable (although there may well be many good reasons I am unaware of).

Interesting idea. Can't ever see it happening in practice but interesting nonetheless.

Are the Vatican State and RCC considered one entity?

This thread about the Vatican may be of interest to you.

Kiwi in IE

Jernal wrote: »

Interesting idea. Can't ever see it happening in practice but interesting nonetheless.


This thread about the Vatican may be of interest to you.

Thanks Jernal I had forgotten about that thread. I started it too. It was soon after I joined Boards and had a few busy weeks leading up to Christmas where clearly didn't log on and I havn't read much of it.

It likely will never happen in practice, but I wonder is it possible to legally object to the influence of another state? Perhaps there could be benefits to the RCC having their own 'state'?

robindch

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

[...] I wonder is it possible to legally object to the influence of another state? [...]

In the normal run of events, and certainly within countries inside the EU, that's going to be pretty hard. You could try campaigning for the introduction of the kids of laws that Putain has introduced in Russia -- harrass or ban organizations that "take money" from abroad -- effectively human rights organizations -- but that'll win you few friends here.

Also, the Vatican has a first-class record when it comes to distancing itself from the actions of its local reps, so even if you did manage to introduce something into law, I think you'd have a hard time making anything stick.

And that's quite apart from the wide and deep lack of interest that the police, the legislature and the judiciary has shown in prosecuting/calling for the prosecution of the institutional church for the massive, international pedophile scandal, let alone something far more nebulous like the application of metaphysical political pressure.

smcgiff

It's pretty much the reason why Catholics weren't allowed to be even married to the UK Monarch, never mind be the monarch.

Hotblack Desiato

robindch wrote: »

In the normal run of events, and certainly within countries inside the EU, that's going to be pretty hard. You could try campaigning for the introduction of the kids of laws that Putain has introduced in Russia

Tch... I didn't say I was making it public domain, like, Rob.

magicbastarder

seems apt to put here:
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/05/22/crown-duels/#comments

Professor John Crown, consultant oncologist and Seanad member has proposed that all members of the Oireachtas swear an oath of allegiance to the Constitution. His initiative may have been prompted by the proposed abortion legislation.

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