Help needed - ASAP please

LegacyUser

Hi Folks,

About 5 pm yesterday evening my wife decided the end of the road had come after 19 years of marriage. Me age 49 and wife age 44. It’s been rough for a while, and she has often threatened separation - especially in the last year - but I was beginning to believe we would muddle through as on Monday last she said we try and then made love to me. (Physical side has been really good and very regular). She came to one counselling session and then decided yesterday time was up. She hasn't been happy for a long while and hasn’t tried - imho - to make time as a couple for ages. We rarely went out together. Since third lad arrived it has been hard going. Also, 5 years ago I had a bad bout of depression. She felt this was shameful - in my eyes - and has never spoken to me, on a deep level, about it. Now, I am not the easiest person to live with but am a goodish dad. I do not drink, smoke, go with other women, gamble or go off every weekend with the lads.

Anyway, one of our boys (age 16) - we have three with twins age 16 and an eleven year old - was listening outside the room. He challenged us as to the veracity of what he had just heard. Wife said yes it's true as Mam and Dad don't get along etc. I then had to go with the boys to a pre-arranged activity. Poor little mites didn’t want to talk as too upset and trying to think about it. They were angry also, especially the twins. As for the eleven year old his world is shattered.

When we got home my wife was gone off. When she arrived home she told me she had already told her family as she had just come from her mother’s - informing them it was a 'joint decision' (it was not). Before she went to her mother’s she had told our neighbour who she is close to.

She wants me out asap. No third parties, no violence - just incompatibility and little real communication. She wishes to go for private mediation this week and me gone immediately. Financially we are barely going month to month - no savings. It is going to be really hard for the boys as all little - rare - treats will be gone. We both have reasonably good jobs and would be regarded as middle income who apy for everything etc!

Any shared experiences on how to manage this situation for my boys would be hugely appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Taltos

OP - first thing.

1. You don't have to move out. And I would recommend against it.
2. Get legal advice asap - there are also some resources in the sticky at the top of this forum - reach out to some of them.
3. Accounts - not saying she would but if you have any joint accounts be very careful, also you shouldn't empty them either.
4. As important as the rest - get someone to talk to asap - a counsellor ideally but you need to vent
5. If you need to go back to your GP, last thing you need or your children need is this triggering your depression again - keep an eye out for the warning signs and unlike your wife I know it takes real guts to man up and ask for help on that topic

As much as you both can, be there for your kids but you need to sort out your legal standing asap, knowing your rights makes the whole process a bit more bearable, eg. her telling you to get out of the house would not be something that would be in your best interests or the childrens (unless you were abusive or aggressive).

Whatever else - keep your head, let off steam some other way, runs or walks or something, but this is one of those times where you really have to control yourself and learn how to deal with bad surprises.

Really hoping it doesn't turn nasty on you.
Taltos

11wingnut

uspi.ie is worth a call and amen.ie dont move out I did for 2 nights and she changed the locks .i have not seen my children in months. , Dolphin house is crap .so circuit court for me. best of luck.

Taltos

11wingnut - thanks for posting but please note per our charter we ask posters not to offer to get into PMs with each other, this is as much to protect you as it is them.

Thanks
Taltos

LegacyUser

Thanks lads. Its a rough weekend here. She is telling all her friends before the kids are aware fully. The older two are being horrible to her as they are so upset. i will not let them away with it.

All three boys have asked us not to separate. They have stood in fron of the two of us and pleaded. Wife has said her mind is made up and then quieltly to me that the kids wishes don't count - that it is between us. I beg to differ - the boys, especially older two can be listened to (they are real good lads) so I suggested that I would make 5 small changes to my behaiour of which two are big things that have bugged her for years - my holding to memorabilia from my home of origin (some useless!) and also leaving my old papers (work, study & news) in a place that wife is not happy with. They were out of harms way, I feel. I have also volunteered to be home on two evenings per week when I was either at work or in a local activity. I will still seek to take one evening off per week. In return I asked three minor things including getting the lads to do 15 minutes of household chores per day and for us to talk every day for 10 minutes to orgainise house/kids. I believe we, as adults, owe it to the kids and that we can break old, and develop positive new, habits. It will take 30 days so I asked for us both to try these arrangements for the thirty days, and if we both feel positive try for another 30 days. I also suggested that we hold the option of doing something nice as a couple if we see an improvement going into the second week of the second thirty days as a reward to ourselves.

Am I mad trying to do this thinking about my boys first and hoping that if the house is a better place then there may be a chance for us?

Thanks.

desbrook

There are no rules to a marital separation but there is "best practice " . Best practice is not to tell kids until you are 100% sure it's over so as not to give false hope. I really really sympathise but your wife is telling you it's over but you aren't listening . She is resorting to telling the kids and even the neighbours to drive the point home. Not alone are you not listening - you are trying to put a band aid on things ... and doing exactly what you shouldn't - giving false hope to your kids. I'm sorry to say it but worse still you are bringing their chores into your "solution " . DON'T do this - they should not be made feel responsible for any of this.
You need to face up to your separation. Sit down with your wife alone and try and manage this in an adult fashion. Please reassure your children that you will both continue to parent them together even if you are separated. They need reassurance not blame or false hope.

LegacyUser

Tough but straight Desbrook. I will ruminate on your answer. However, I believe we , as parents, we should not pack in until we are sure we have earned our separation. We have mediation - private - on Wednesday. Will just have to wait. Good thing is I have had to mind the boys from morning til evening all weekend as wife with friends and family. I am getting real pleasure from being fully responsible for their wellbeing. They are so upset though. That is why I feel every last Avenue should be explored, even if the two of us are not fully comfortable.

Taltos

OP

irrespective of your current beliefs please still make an appointment and see a solicitor. You need to fully learn not only your rights here but your obligations too.

In terms of you children - honestly having seen others do what you and your wife just did I am unsure whether to just shake my head in disbelief or get angry, however neither is what this forum is for. As per above - it is very unfair on your kids to have been put into the position they are in now. It will help them all greatly if you both can organise someone to talk to them - but in the meantime you and your wife have to agree 100% to leave them out of it - they are not tools or tricks to emotionally blackmail the other with.

Also to your two gestures - if you think some trinkets or papers is what is causing your wife to tell everyone your marriage is over then either you have rooms stuffed with papers or you are fooling yourself. desbrook said it clearly here - your wife has been explicit with you, it is over. Now, I know you don't want to accept that - this is a normal reaction - however what you feel here really does not matter to this decision. At best you have won a delaying tactic - at worst you both have scarred your children.

Try the counselling but in the meantime (spotted later post highlighting mediation, not counselling). - please go and talk to a legal professional here.


<Mod hat - if you want us to move this thread to the Relationship Forum for relationship advice let me know, this forum is for divorce and separation advice, not for relationship advice>

desbrook

One further note OP. The fact that you are going to Mediation should tell you things are over. The mediator will make it clear at the start of the session that it is NOT counseling to try and save your marraige. It is mediation so you and your wife can separate amicably by agreement. If you argue that your marraige can be saved the session will end.

Another further thought - usually children are most upset by uncertainty and only to a lesser extent by the break up itself. Your non acceptance of the separation is causing more uncertainty and prolonging their upset. As I said to my wife " If we can't make a successful marraige at least we'll try and make a successful separation "

OP, she is telling everyone, the neighbours, the kids, etc. Asking for 15 mins of talking a day and reorganising your old papers isn't going to cut it It's already over.

I think following taltos' advice is best - but first you will need to listen to her and let it sink in.

wuzziwig

Desperatedad, I feel for you. I really do. I'm going through a really nasty separation at the moment. Totally different circumstances to you but it's a stressful time and hard to think clearly when you are in the middle of it all.

I think some of the posters above have given you really sound advice. When you suggested the changes to your wife what did she say? Did she agree to give them a try? It sounds to me like she has decided the marriage is over and the reasons may not be obvious to you but they must be valid to her. As desbrook said, mediation is for helping you both to make a separation agreement. You will have to deal with things like the family home, access, maintenance etc. Mediation is for when the marriage is over. It is not counselling. Maybe you could suggest marriage counselling to your wife and see if she's amenable to that?

I have three young children (10, 7 and 4). Me and my ex have been living apart for two months now. They are doing amazingly well. They are happy and seem to be adjusting well to all the changes in their lives. Kids are resilient. I have been extremely open and honest with them about every aspect of our separation (in an age appropriate way). It is much better for them for their parents to be separated than to be living in a toxic environment. I'm not saying that is how your relationship is at the moment but deep down if your wife really wants to separate but she stays for the sake of the kids, then resentment can start to fester and your relationship could go downhilll extremely fast.

For now I think it would be a good idea to sit down with your wife and talk openly and honestly about how you are both feeling. You need to listen to her reasons about why she wants to separate, you can put your side of things to her and then together decide if things can be fixed/worked on or if separation is the only way to go.

I wish you the very best and good luck with everything.