Join Up Issues

MsMac

Hi guys. To get straight to the point, I'm having a couple of issues doing join up with my horse. I thought I'd give it a go after seeing the great results it has on other horses, so I brought my horse out to a small arena and let him off the lead rope.

That's when the problems started. I walked away from him and he just kept following me! So then I tried to chase him out to the edge to start the whole join up process and he refused to move. Every time I raised my arms or flicked the lead rope at him he would just do a tiny rear and then stare at me again.

I ended up giving up after about twenty minutes when he also wouldn't lunge and I just put him out in a field for a bit.

Is there any way to fix these issues?

marley123

Has the horse been lunged before? Consistency is the key, with back up of lunge line. What do you hope to achieve by the joining up technique?
uote="MsMac;84436620"]Hi guys. To get straight to the point, I'm having a couple of issues doing join up with my horse. I thought I'd give it a go after seeing the great results it has on other horses, so I brought my horse out to a small arena and let him off the lead rope.

That's when the problems started. I walked away from him and he just kept following me! So then I tried to chase him out to the edge to start the whole join up process and he refused to move. Every time I raised my arms or flicked the lead rope at him he would just do a tiny rear and then stare at me again.

I ended up giving up after about twenty minutes when he also wouldn't lunge and I just put him out in a field for a bit.

Is there any way to fix these issues?[/quote]

Anastazia

Hi,
I've done join up a few times, even on a horse that i already had a really good connection with and it got even better.. so it really is very rewarding...and fun..
Here's what I think might help:
1. maybe you need to be more assertive,( you could have felt a bit bad about sending him off because he wanted to follow you!) So keep you eyes on him, flap and wave the lunge rope against you side, and advance towards his quarter (obvously not close enough to get kicked) but make sure your sending him away from behind, and even throw out the lungs so it knock against his quarters.. start from the start of this list and add the signals until he runs off.
2. make sure there are no corners that he can get in, use poles to erase the corners if you know what I mean.
3.Make sure you know all the signals to look for when he wants to join up.
4.Be confident, you are the alpha mare, he won't listen to you if he knows your pretending to be:D

Hope this is of some help to you.. and have fun..:)

fits

I would say if you're getting on fine with the horse to leave well enough alone. Even monty Roberts and marks say it might not be the best thing to do with an older trained horse.

fits

Also if he's following you, you could say he is already joined up.

monflat

fits wrote: »

Also if he's following you, you could say he is already joined up.

Think I would agree with fits here
As if he is already following you you have a relationship goin
You will only be confusing him otherwise when he is " with you " don't confuse him by sending him away

If you need help with this contact a Monty Roberts associate as you can watch many videos etc but nothing can be as good as a person who worked with the man himself and who all know about feel and timing
You can learn better from them

Anastazia

Hi MsMac and boardies:),

I wanted some clarity, just for myself, so I sent the question to 'AskMonty' to get some better understanding, thought I'd post the dialog if anyones interested:

Here's what I asked:

"Hi Monty
Thank you so much for you answer. I have done join up a other horses before very successfully.
The problem that I have here is that the horse follows me when I try to send him away, and does this mean that I have to be more assertive?
Or does it mean that I in his mind he thinks I am the alpha mare and thinks that he is already 'joined up with me'?

Someone told me that with some horses that you already have a good relationship are better not to do join up with. Which I don't really agree with.

Is there ever a reason when you should not do join up with a horse ie. older horses?

Many thanks for you help"

Here's the answer:

"Great that you have a basis for Join-Up with other horses. You then know that in order to communicate leadership to your horse and to achieve Join-Up, you need to send the horse away. There are no rules to whether you should get a Join-Up with a horse or not. It’s a conversation. Having the same conversation too many times is boring. But if you have never – or rarely – had it, then you are right to want it. Horses read your intent well. What do you intend?
Thank you,"

Then I asked:

"I understand what you mean about in intention , they really do feel what you are thinking..But do you ever recommend that you shouldn't do join up with a horse that already follows you or one that is older?
Or does would join up only improve you connection with the horse in either of the above cases?

Thank you, thank you for all you kindness and helpfulness,"

And the answer from Debbie Roberts:

"Join-Up (done correctly) definitely improves your relationship with a horse that follows you or who is older. Thank you,
Debbie"

Anastazia

Also MsMac,

Take a look at the horse 0:30 of this video, it looks like want you described your horse was doing:D
Hope this helps...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=z70cONKmbdM

monflat

Anastazia wrote: »

Hi MsMac and boardies:),

I wanted some clarity, just for myself, so I sent the question to 'AskMonty' to get some better understanding, thought I'd post the dialog if anyones interested:

Here's what I asked:

"Hi Monty
Thank you so much for you answer. I have done join up a other horses before very successfully.
The problem that I have here is that the horse follows me when I try to send him away, and does this mean that I have to be more assertive?
Or does it mean that I in his mind he thinks I am the alpha mare and thinks that he is already 'joined up with me'?

Someone told me that with some horses that you already have a good relationship are better not to do join up with. Which I don't really agree with.

Is there ever a reason when you should not do join up with a horse ie. older horses?

Many thanks for you help"

Here's the answer:

"Great that you have a basis for Join-Up with other horses. You then know that in order to communicate leadership to your horse and to achieve Join-Up, you need to send the horse away. There are no rules to whether you should get a Join-Up with a horse or not. It’s a conversation. Having the same conversation too many times is boring. But if you have never – or rarely – had it, then you are right to want it. Horses read your intent well. What do you intend?
Thank you,"

Then I asked:

"I understand what you mean about in intention , they really do feel what you are thinking..But do you ever recommend that you shouldn't do join up with a horse that already follows you or one that is older?
Or does would join up only improve you connection with the horse in either of the above cases?

Thank you, thank you for all you kindness and helpfulness,"

And the answer from Debbie Roberts:

"Join-Up (done correctly) definitely improves your relationship with a horse that follows you or who is older. Thank you,
Debbie"

I think the point we are missing here is that the op has not specified if they have actually done a course or had a Monty Roberts associate help them do join up.

It is easy to look at other people doin it however there are many signs that one would miss if you are not shown properly also not everyone disengages the hind quaters correctly

Anyway until the op can offer more advice on this I think we are a bit lost on this one as unless we actually see what is goin on in person it is hard to see what the problem is



However there are many other methods too not just join up

Anastazia

yeah i do agree monflat..

MsMac

Sorry I haven't replied guys, I've been really busy with my horse for a while. To answer some of the questions, I've never done a join up course or worked with a Monty Roberts associate however I've done join up with two different horses on a few occasions and it was successful every time. Anastazia, the rearing was exactly what my horse was doing! And to answer the first question, yes my horse has been lunged before, but never by me as I usually ride him and only get others to lunge him when I can't get down to him, but I am perfectly capable of lunging horses as I have lunged many horses, just not my guy. I'm planning to try again over the week, so he'll hopefully cooperate.

MsMac

Also I should add that I've seen a Monty Roberts demonstration in person which is what I based my join ups off