Sealed or Open Vented system?

Linto

Hi,
Any advice on what heating / hot water system to use nowadays? We're based in South Dublin and are totally regutting the house and ripping out entire plumbing and electrics etc.

Is it possible to have a pressurised system directly from the mains in Dublin? is pressure strong enough? It would be nice to avoid having any noisy pumps running when we open the taps. We're also hoping to have solar help with water heating (there's 6 of us)

We'd ideally like to have any tanks and cylinders in attic with boiler in utility downstairs.

Any advice?

JohnnieK

Believe it or not your not supposed to take everything of the mains unless specifically given the green light from the local authority. If there is six of you, you are going to need a 300l cylinder.
You could have a storage tank with a whole house booster, but with toilets and washing machine fed direct from the tank.

Perhaps the pump could be put somewhere where noise could be minimal.

Generally the standing pressure of mains water is just under 3bar with working pressure just over 1. This of course depends on where you are. My home place is around Deansgrange and my mother has mains working pressure of just under 2bar.

I hope your insulating the house well.

Linto

JohnnieK wrote: »

Believe it or not your not supposed to take every. ing of the mains unless specifically given the green light from the local authority. If there is six of you, you are going to need a 300l cylinder.
You could have a storage tank with a whole house booster, but with toilets and washing machine fed direct from the tank.

Perhaps the pump could be put somewhere where noise could be minimal.

Generally the standing pressure of mains water is just under 3bar with working pressure just over 1. This of course depends on where you are. My home place is around Deansgrange and my mother has mains working pressure of just under 2bar.

I hope your insulating the house well.

And is that kind of pressure suitable for mains presurised system? Just curious

belcampprisoner

can you use solar heating

Linto

belcampprisoner wrote: »

can you use solar heating

Yes, we plan on using solar for water. Does this make a diff what system we use? And how to pressurise the system?

Outkast_IRE

Linto wrote: »

Yes, we plan on using solar for water. Does this make a diff what system we use? And how to pressurise the system?

It will make a difference when you look at what heat sources are heating the system.

Do you plan on using a stove or solid fuel appliance to heat the hot water or heating system ?

Linto

We'll be using a new gas fired boiler

Outkast_IRE

Linto wrote: »

We'll be using a new gas fired boiler

There should be no issue so, just think about the future if you think you will want a stove heating the hot water or heating dont go pressurised.

Personally i would prefer there to be some kind of water storage, as if you work straight off the mains if the mains goes out you will be left high and dry immediately.

Other options to consider.
1. How high is the attic space, i have seen people getting timbers put in at the peak of the attic to allow the storage tank to sit up there. this will create a better pressure at the taps than a tank sitting on the floor of the attic. Altough it must be said that there should be some input from structural engineer on this to ensure the loads are ok, and correct timbers used.
In this sceanario the tank must be lagged properly etc.

2. Is there any area you could put the pump and cylinder where it wont be heard ?

Linto

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

There should be no issue so, just think about the future if you think you will want a stove heating the hot water or heating dont go pressurised.

Personally i would prefer there to be some kind of water storage, as if you work straight off the mains if the mains goes out you will be left high and dry immediately.

Other options to consider.
1. How high is the attic space, i have seen people getting timbers put in at the peak of the attic to allow the storage tank to sit up there. this will create a better pressure at the taps than a tank sitting on the floor of the attic. Altough it must be said that there should be some input from structural engineer on this to ensure the loads are ok, and correct timbers used.
In this sceanario the tank must be lagged properly etc.

2. Is there any area you could put the pump and cylinder where it wont be heard ?

Just meet with plumber and he suggested a grundfos pump in attic with cylinder and tanks all kept in attic. He says the grudfos pump doesn't come on immediately when taps are open and they run very quiet. This way the entire house has good pressure. Also I can get it ready for solar in future.
Sound reasonable?

Outkast_IRE

Linto wrote: »

Just meet with plumber and he suggested a grundfos pump in attic with cylinder and tanks all kept in attic. He says the grudfos pump doesn't come on immediately when taps are open and they run very quiet. This way the entire house has good pressure. Also I can get it ready for solar in future.
Sound reasonable?

I know the pump he is talking about, or more than likely talking about as i have used grundfos pumps quite a bit.

Yes they dont come on immediately because i believe alot of the grundfos pumps have a small pressure vessel, but most decent things you do would result in them coming on , I hope somone else can chime in here with advice but if it coming on to run a lot is a concern i would consider looking at an additonal pressure tank/ vessel , grundfos also sell these to be used in conjunction with potable water. Here is a link http://ie.grundfos.com/products/find-product/gt.html#overview

The advantage being, less start/stop on your pump which saves energy, and it will come on less often when only theres small demand.

As i said someone else feel free to jump in here with opinion and experience.

Also having everthing in the attic, isnt the usual situation , i would just be sure that the attic is ok to take such loads as this. Remember 1 litre of water is 1 kg. So a 300ltr cylinder is going to add 300kg to one spot in the attic excluding the weight of the cylinder itself. If you have a cistern up there that could be another 300ltrs upwards, meaning before long you have added 600kg+ to your attic space. Be very sure theres no issue with this if your gutting the place completely you might of engaged a structural engineer if it was me personally i would decide where you want to locate them in the attic and get a professional opinion on if its ok.

esox28

+1 on being aware of the total kg being loaded onto roof celing ties/ attic.
I'm sure maybe the pump in question is the groundfos Mq, these are instant start up with the pressure card, but I generally only install the dhw cylinders pressure vessel on cold side after the saftey group, it does provide some cushion effect on delaying start up, I don't think you'd need to worry these pumps go on for years. Best thing you can do is have your toilets separate to the pressurized system, just connected to storage tank as normal.

Linto

esox28 wrote: »

+1 on being aware of the total kg being loaded onto roof celing ties/ attic.
I'm sure maybe the pump in question is the groundfos Mq, these are instant start up with the pressure card, but I generally only install the dhw cylinders pressure vessel on cold side after the saftey group, it does provide some cushion effect on delaying start up, I don't think you'd need to worry these pumps go on for years. Best thing you can do is have your toilets separate to the pressurized system, just connected to storage tank as normal.

Is there a better pump in terms of quietness that I should consider?

Also any advice on whether I should also consider heat recovery system at this point? I hear they're expensive but very economical!

JohnnieK

The quietest (I'm sure I've spelt that wrong) pump I've come across is the Kikawa kq range. I put one in my own place. If the house is large enough a second vessel can be put on the outlet of the pump to add additional capacity so the pump will not activate as often.

Outkast_IRE

Linto wrote: »

Is there a better pump in terms of quietness that I should consider?

Also any advice on whether I should also consider heat recovery system at this point? I hear they're expensive but very economical!

Heat recovery will really only make sense if your specifically retrofitting airtightness features all over the home. Someone else would be able to advise better but basically you need to hit a certain airtightness level before they make economic sense and in retrofit that usually means alot of airtightness work being carried out.