Political reasons for lack of enforcement?

ballooba

My non-national partner asked me an interesting question yesterday (detailed below). It's patently obvious as a road user in Ireland that there is generally a free-for-all.

Most of our experience would be in Dublin City Centre and suburbs, but also on plenty of trips further afield. Mobile phone use to me is the most obvious risky behaviour, both among pedestrians and motorists. It's very obvious when driving near someone that they are distracted by their phone, whether texting or on a call. Yet this behaviour is prolific among motorists.

Until recently we lived in another country where traffic stops were an everyday sight at the side of highways and by-ways. In Ireland they are a complete novelty.

The question my partner asked was this: Is there a political reason why there is no enforcement? When I asked her to elaborate on this, she added: What would happen if the police turned around in the morning and started enforcing road traffic law? i.e. would there be outrage? and at whom would it be directed?

jayok

It's simply down to resources. If the Gardaí were to enforce every single road traffic act everytime, there'd be little time for anything else. This is no different so any other law not just traffic.

So, in attempt to focus resources, Gardaí will focus on the more serious crimes such as drink driving, excessive speeding, etc as this will yield the most be benefit for the state - save lives. Not to exclude the other misdemeanours but they have less of an impact.

You being inconvenienced by an yellow box hogger is far less important than someone doing 100kmph in a 50kmph zone.

Consider it similar to the decriminalization of using cannabis in the UK - it's still illegal par se, just society gets less benefit that if the police target the dealers.

Anan1

ballooba wrote: »

The question my partner asked was this: Is there a political reason why there is no enforcement? When I asked her to elaborate on this, she added: What would happen if the police turned around in the morning and started enforcing road traffic law? i.e. would there be outrage? and at whom would it be directed?

There'd be applause from me.

Dacelonid

Maybe if the Gardai enforced the law in minor cases, people might not have a sense that they can get away with everything else.
IE is there was more prosecutions for minor offences like mobile phones, incorrect use of lanes on roundabouts etc then maybe road users would actually start obeying the law and it wouldn't take as many Gardai to police the traffic laws.

biko

I think it's mainly it's down to a lack of automation and manpower.
For instance APNR means a single car unit can catch a hell of a lot more tax/nct dodgers than a roadblock.
There's less than 150 APNR cars nationwide, mainly in highly populated areas.

You can probably live your whole life in the countryside and never get stopped.

michael999999

All the guards are too busy monitoring daft.ie to check what rent they can get for there investment property's to be worrying about small things like that!

00833827

biko wrote: »

There's less than 150 APNR cars nationwide, mainly in highly populated areas.

Are there even this amount? I would have said more like 20. I only ever seen them in Dublin and Cork.

charlemont

There probably just too busy looking for Grow Houses to bother with small things like people getting killed on the roads. Sure the drugs are far far worse than somebodies dangerous driving..:rolleyes:

Chris_Heilong

if it really was a free for all then we are some of the best behaved Motorists in the world, My wife's parents are here on holiday from China and they commented on how polite everyone drove over here, obeying the rules, not mounting the paths to get ahead of other cars, and not blowing the horn constantly unlike the majority of countries out there. Most of the bad behavior I see is caused by selfishness, especially on the Motorway. If you were in a country were there are checkpoints everywhere then maybe that countries people need checkpoints to be everywhere as they would not do well as the Irish in a "free for all" as you called it.

Marsden

ballooba wrote: »

My non-national partner asked me an interesting question yesterday (detailed below).

Where abouts is this non national partner from? I've got one too and compared to eastern Europe our roads are a safe haven.

Del2005

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

if it really was a free for all then we are some of the best behaved Motorists in the world, My wires parents are here on holiday from China and they commented on how polite everyone drove over here, obeying the rules, not mounting the paths to get ahead of other cars, and not blowing the horn constantly unlike the majority of countries out there. Most of the bad behavior I see is caused by selfishness, especially on the Motorway. If you were in a country were there are checkpoints everywhere then maybe that countries people need checkpoints to be everywhere as they would not do well as the Irish in a "free for all" as you called it.

Marsden wrote: »

Where abouts is this non national partner from? I've got one too and compared to eastern Europe our roads are a safe haven.

Our roads may be safer than other countries but our drivers are still terrible compared to drivers in other countries. You can always find a country with worst drivers to compare to ours to, but we should be looking for better road users to be compared against not worst.

belcampprisoner

do you want guards to catch criminals or stop drivers

Del2005

belcampprisoner wrote: »

do you want guards to catch criminals or stop drivers

If drivers are breaking the law then they are committing an offence, it may not be criminal but the law is being broken by both. Having more Gardaí doesn't mater as when we had loads they didn't enforce traffic laws any more than now.

Wibbs

Del2005 wrote: »

Our roads may be safer than other countries but our drivers are still terrible compared to drivers in other countries.

What other countries? List em please. I've driven in a fair few in my last quarter century of driving and Irish drivers really don't stand out as being anywhere close to "terrible"*. PLus how the... does the logic work with "oh we're safer, but terrible? Ehhh wut? In short, utter nonsense. Check the stats if you take the time to. We've one of the lowest accident and death rates in the EU never mind the world. Room for improvement? Always, but I wish people would GTFO with this blanket "oh Irish drivers are awwwful, you know".






*In Europe alone the Spanish are often a disaster. Try driving 100 kms in Spain without seeing a car on it's roof in the verge. The Portuguese are worse. Them and the Greeks have more than quadruple the Irish road death rate.

Gosub

By a long way, the biggest problem Irish drivers have is on the motorway. The lane abuse is truly unbelievable. But, we don't get any formal training to use them. It's no wonder we get it so wrong. The driver training needs to take account of the amount of motorways we have now.

Other than motorways, the Irish driver, while not perfect by any means, is better than a lot of countries in the world. I drive a lot in southern Spain. The Spanish are careless drivers, they just couldn't be arsed to do it right, and they get motorway training as learners. There are checkpoints, but they are only looking for incorrect paperwork so they can impose an on-the-spot fine.

By far the most dangerous drivers I come across are the Moroccans. They have no concept of lanes... at all! They drive in their own little bubble. The world outside of the bodyshell of their car simply doesn't exist. When I see the white plates with the squiggles, I give them lots of road.

ballooba

Apparently we are going to see enhanced enforcement over the weekend. I'm sure it will be shock and awe!:rolleyes:
http://www.thejournal.ie/garda-traffic-warning-bank-holiday-894390-May2013/

ironclaw

My first speed trap in about a year I came across last night on the N11. (The usual after the flyover: http://goo.gl/maps/XTy53) I drive a good mix of urban, motorway and backroad, and I think I've been through two checkpoints in the past 3 years.

I'd far prefer if they dedicated Traffic Corp to actually catching people for every spectrum of the rules of the road. Even if its a quick stop to demonstrate just how ridiculous your driving is. You often see it in the UK, people getting pulled just for an educational grilling.

Ireland arn't the worst in Europe. In Poland I had a French car undertake in the hard shoulder at north of 140km/h. But I saw more police there enforcing traffic than I saw here in the previous 5 years. I think we're just lucky that we don't have the road numbers or the speed to see more deaths.

munchkin_utd

ballooba wrote: »

<snip>

The question my partner asked was this: Is there a political reason why there is no enforcement? When I asked her to elaborate on this, she added: What would happen if the police turned around in the morning and started enforcing road traffic law? i.e. would there be outrage? and at whom would it be directed?

funny, your partner is correct but for a much different reason.

Politicans make laws, and many of the irish road traffic laws are inept.
i.e. till recently if you had a faulty light the guards could
a) book you and charge you with an offense that required a court appearance which in turn would only succeed if the guard was there in person, and even then probably result in a small fine or vincent de paul donation. Unfortunately this is one of a whole heap of things that were not covered by an on the spot fine so the guards were loath to act and end up in court every day of the week for the most minor of things
OR
b) save themselves the hassle and focus on something more easy to process or with a higher priority etc.

So yes, its a political problem all right!
The useless politicians (/political system) who cannot draught laws to deal with simple problems efficently without dragging the matter and the majority of the police force into daily court visits. Muppets.

EDIT:
just for reference, heres the table of on the spot fines for Germany that came into effect last month.
Note the range of stuff that in Ireland is would be classed as "dangerous driving" and requiring a court appearance that instead has sliding scales of fines and points which, unless you appeal, is kept out of the german court system.
http://www.bmvbs.de/SharedDocs/EN/Artikel/LA/schedule-of-fines.html?nn=37428#5

EDIT2:
any stuff not in that table, pretty much anything you can imagine from j-walking to having a faulty bulb, is listed in the law as a minor offence with a small fine of €15 which increases should you have been causing danger to anyone and again if it caused an accident.

ballooba

ballooba wrote: »

Apparently we are going to see enhanced enforcement over the weekend. I'm sure it will be shock and awe!:rolleyes:
http://www.thejournal.ie/garda-traffic-warning-bank-holiday-894390-May2013/

Didn't see many cops over the weekend, until today when there were quite a few out and about. Saw one traffic stop today, in about 250km of driving on various roads.

Matt Simis

charlemont wrote: »

There probably just too busy looking for Grow Houses to bother with small things like people getting killed on the roads. Sure the drugs are far far worse than somebodies dangerous driving..:rolleyes:

Im really confused by your usage of rollyeyes there.. Drugs are a vastly more pressing matter than "dangerous driving" both statistically and socially. Aside from the impact on families and related hardline criminal activity in the Drugs game, actual road deaths in Ireland have been falling since 2006.: http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0130/365273-road-deaths-dropped-by-57-from-2007-2012-rsa/

Drugs and Drug problems however, are not falling.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/analysis/time-to-change-policy-on-drug-use-202529.html

While we dont have very active/visible "Traffic Offence" enforcement, who cares? The results are there to be seen. Drug related deaths however rank Ireland as among the worst performing countries in Europe. Here's a rollyeyes to the notion that someone talking on their phone is in anyway comparable to the kids dealing / taking drugs in our Urban centres. :rolleyes:


PS: To the OP, the reason as noted is super-obviously that we have an under-resourced police force and while Traffic Offences offer low hanging fruit from a revenue perspective, their enforcement is very low impact in terms of criminality.

Pappa Charlie

I think road deaths have decreased dramatically over the last 10 years, but i guess it was all luck!

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

HurtLocker

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Not seen a copper in around 6 months.

I have seen more abroad in the UK in 1 week than in several years in Ireland.

Where the hell are ye living?
In the last week I've seen 2 go safe vans and a garda traffic corp doing speed checks :mad:
They must be following me!

Pappa Charlie

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Not seen a copper in around 6 months.

I have seen more abroad in the UK in 1 week than in several years in Ireland.

You must have been in jail in the UK !